tripledipper
Regular Member
imported post
Guilty of voluntary manslaughter. What sentence will he get?
Guilty of voluntary manslaughter. What sentence will he get?
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Ryan Frederick Conviction
- Thread starter tripledipper
- Start date
TFred
Regular Member
imported post
We may never see it, but I predict (ha ha easy to do when there is no way to verify) that once the jurors get out and read some of the details that they were not allowed to see or consider in the deliberation, they will develop a very sick feeling in the pit of their stomach.
TFred
We may never see it, but I predict (ha ha easy to do when there is no way to verify) that once the jurors get out and read some of the details that they were not allowed to see or consider in the deliberation, they will develop a very sick feeling in the pit of their stomach.
TFred
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
tripledipper wrote:
tripledipper wrote:
I'll get back to you when my rage over injustice settles down.
wylde007
Regular Member
imported post
Despicable.
And sets a VERY BAD PRECEDENT.
Despicable.
And sets a VERY BAD PRECEDENT.
hsmith
Regular Member
imported post
We need to outlaw no knock warrants in Virginia (or at least set a FIRM set of standards for them)
They are a DANGER to us all.
We need to outlaw no knock warrants in Virginia (or at least set a FIRM set of standards for them)
They are a DANGER to us all.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Citizen wrote:
Actually, it may be avertable.
I'm wondering if the defense will appeal on the grounds that the warrant was tainted and invalid, or that something was improperly withheld from the jury.
Citizen wrote:
Actually, it may be avertable.
I'm wondering if the defense will appeal on the grounds that the warrant was tainted and invalid, or that something was improperly withheld from the jury.
wylde007
Regular Member
imported post
My letter to Governor Kaine:
My letter to Governor Kaine:
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
WOW!!
"Wylde007 FOR GOVERNOR"
WOW!!
"Wylde007 FOR GOVERNOR"
2a4all
Regular Member
imported post
tripledipper wrote:
Hopefully, LEAs will get the message that these thug-like methods of warrant service need to be rethought.
tripledipper wrote:
Voluntary manslaughter is a Class 5 felony. Ryan could go home with credit for time served.
§ 18.2-10. Punishment for conviction of felony; penalty.
(e) For Class 5 felonies, a term of imprisonment of not less than one year nor more than 10 years, or in the discretion of the jury or the court trying the case without a jury, confinement in jail for not more than 12 months and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both.
He was found not guilty of using a firearm in the commission of a felony, and not guilty of possession of marijuana with intent to distribute.(e) For Class 5 felonies, a term of imprisonment of not less than one year nor more than 10 years, or in the discretion of the jury or the court trying the case without a jury, confinement in jail for not more than 12 months and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both.
Hopefully, LEAs will get the message that these thug-like methods of warrant service need to be rethought.
TFred
Regular Member
imported post
Maybe someone who is more lawyerly can explain to me the hows and whys that allow the judge to instruct the jury that they may consider lesser charges.
I really don't get this part of the case.
If the state believes that Frederick was guilty of first degree murder and both sides present their cases, the jury should then decide if that is what he did.
It seems to be rather disingenuous to allow the jury to "split the difference" as I saw in the Reason blog, between first degree murder and acquittal. It's almost like the judge said "if you didn't think he killed a cop on purpose, but you want to convict him of something, here, you can say he did this instead.
What kind of justice is that?
Here's my specific problem with this verdict:
The prosecutor says he intentionally and knowingly killed a cop on purpose. That is either true or it is not true. If the state cannot prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, then that means that Frederick's actions fall back to legitimately defending his home, life and property from invasions by those who would certainly be willing to do him harm. Busting in a door would seem to provide ample evidence of criminal intent.
This "middle of the road" option, which has no basis in any facts that I've seen discussed, seems to be nothing more than a guarantee that justice is not being served here.
Maybe, given the uncertainty of the outcome, it is in Frederick's best interest to have a middle road option that is more likely to be taken, but I really don't see how it passes ethical muster in this case.
TFred
Maybe someone who is more lawyerly can explain to me the hows and whys that allow the judge to instruct the jury that they may consider lesser charges.
I really don't get this part of the case.
If the state believes that Frederick was guilty of first degree murder and both sides present their cases, the jury should then decide if that is what he did.
It seems to be rather disingenuous to allow the jury to "split the difference" as I saw in the Reason blog, between first degree murder and acquittal. It's almost like the judge said "if you didn't think he killed a cop on purpose, but you want to convict him of something, here, you can say he did this instead.
What kind of justice is that?
Here's my specific problem with this verdict:
The prosecutor says he intentionally and knowingly killed a cop on purpose. That is either true or it is not true. If the state cannot prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, then that means that Frederick's actions fall back to legitimately defending his home, life and property from invasions by those who would certainly be willing to do him harm. Busting in a door would seem to provide ample evidence of criminal intent.
This "middle of the road" option, which has no basis in any facts that I've seen discussed, seems to be nothing more than a guarantee that justice is not being served here.
Maybe, given the uncertainty of the outcome, it is in Frederick's best interest to have a middle road option that is more likely to be taken, but I really don't see how it passes ethical muster in this case.
TFred
2a4all
Regular Member
imported post
TFred, think appeals.
If the only charge were capital murder, and Ryan was found guilty, he'd appeal.
If he were found not guilty, the prosecution would appeal (jury nullification?).
This way, a verdict might be reached that will be satisfactory to all. In addition, given all the noise about improper warrants, the appeal issues seem to tilt in Ryan's favor.
Apparently, the judge didn't see a binary situation here.
TFred, think appeals.
If the only charge were capital murder, and Ryan was found guilty, he'd appeal.
If he were found not guilty, the prosecution would appeal (jury nullification?).
This way, a verdict might be reached that will be satisfactory to all. In addition, given all the noise about improper warrants, the appeal issues seem to tilt in Ryan's favor.
Apparently, the judge didn't see a binary situation here.
wylde007
Regular Member
imported post
WV XD Guy wrote:
WV XD Guy wrote:
This is exactly why the charge and verdict are of such great concern.
DonTreadOnMe
Regular Member
imported post
wylde007 wrote:
wylde007 wrote:
better to be found guilty than found dead
SaltH2OHokie
Regular Member
imported post
Jury recommended the max sentence (10 years). PilotOnline:
Jury recommended the max sentence (10 years). PilotOnline:
VApatriot
Regular Member
imported post
2a4all wrote:
It just goes to show you that the system is seriously flawed.:banghead:
2a4all wrote:
How can he be convicted ofa felony, but not be guilty of using a firearm in commission ofa felony?
It just goes to show you that the system is seriously flawed.:banghead:
Hawkflyer
Founder's Club Member
imported post
VApatriot wrote:
VApatriot wrote:
Those are lesser included offenses. There is a cascade of included offenses depending on where you enter the list.
hsmith
Regular Member
imported post
Great win for the war on drugs, the simple cost was another cops life.
:banghead:
Great win for the war on drugs, the simple cost was another cops life.
:banghead:
GLENGLOCKER
Regular Member
imported post
WTKR is airing an interview @11pm tonight from someone who was next door the night of the raid talking about what he heard. Don't like the drug war? Hit this poll http://www.wtkr.com
WTKR is airing an interview @11pm tonight from someone who was next door the night of the raid talking about what he heard. Don't like the drug war? Hit this poll http://www.wtkr.com
imported post
VApatriot wrote:
It happens. Jury wants to be sure someone is held accountable for something. Jury recommending the full load says something even though the verdict was for a lesser included offense.
In this case as all others, the recommendation of the jury will be considered, along with a host of other facts and emotions, at a seperate sentencing hearing that probably will not be held for more than 3 months. Probation Officer has to complete a full social history and other information that when put together is called a Pre-Sentence Report. It's supposed to cover all aspects of his life from childhood to present - family, school, friends, home environment, illnesses, disabilities, work history, psychological tests done prior to event (if any), psychological tests done after event but before trial, psychological tests done after trial, victim impact statements, statements of community support, potential jobs after release, potential living arrangements after release, and the like.
I have not looked to see if any claims of mistrial or notice of appeal were made yet. Either of those are possible and could complicate matters. This is not going to be over for quite some time unless he has had too much and just takes what he can get at this point.
stay safe.
skidmark
VApatriot wrote:
The same way someone can be found guilty of using a firearm in the commission of a felony, but not found guilty of any other charge against them. It happened! Guy had a heck of a time explaining to the other inmates what he was in prison for - he ended up showing everybody his paperwork to prove he was telling the truth. IIRC he has been released for a few years now.
It happens. Jury wants to be sure someone is held accountable for something. Jury recommending the full load says something even though the verdict was for a lesser included offense.
In this case as all others, the recommendation of the jury will be considered, along with a host of other facts and emotions, at a seperate sentencing hearing that probably will not be held for more than 3 months. Probation Officer has to complete a full social history and other information that when put together is called a Pre-Sentence Report. It's supposed to cover all aspects of his life from childhood to present - family, school, friends, home environment, illnesses, disabilities, work history, psychological tests done prior to event (if any), psychological tests done after event but before trial, psychological tests done after trial, victim impact statements, statements of community support, potential jobs after release, potential living arrangements after release, and the like.
I have not looked to see if any claims of mistrial or notice of appeal were made yet. Either of those are possible and could complicate matters. This is not going to be over for quite some time unless he has had too much and just takes what he can get at this point.
stay safe.
skidmark