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Thread: Virginia Senate passes restaurant carry, rejects private gun sales ban

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    With the notification part, I don't see this bill as a win.

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    Agreed

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    Regular Member Virginiaplanter's Avatar
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    I don't see the problem with the notification. When you first walk into the restaurant, just yell, "I've got a Gun, and I want a table with good service and good food now!"

    What's the problem?

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    I'll be sure to give that a try.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Hand em a card that says.. "Hello. By handing you this card I am "officially" notifiying you of my compliance of Section xxx.xxx" of the code of Virginia. Thank you.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    ed wrote:
    Hand em a card that says.. "Hello. By handing you this card I am "officially" notifiying you of my compliance of Section xxx.xxx" of the code of Virginia. Thank you.
    What does the bill state?

    Would we berequired to notify them that we are complying with the statute, or required to notify them that we are carrying a concealed handgun?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Will they also make it necessary for the driver of a vehicle to notify so he isn't served anything to drink?

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    ed wrote:
    Hand em a card that says.. "Hello. By handing you this card I am "officially" notifiying you of my compliance of Section xxx.xxx" of the code of Virginia. Thank you.
    What does the bill state?

    Would we berequired to notify them that we are complying with the statute, or required to notify them that we are carrying a concealed handgun?
    A difference without a distinction
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Simply OC ladies and gentlemen, simply OC. :celebrate

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I still predict that eventually the notification requirement will have to go away. It will irritate and inconvenience everyone involved (the concealed gun carriers and especially the ABC Managers on duty) and it does not provide any tangible benefit.

    Probably better to get this first step done this year, and then make it better next year.

    I'm still surprised if there is not some Restaurant Association very much opposed to this notification idea.

    TFred


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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    ed wrote:
    Hand em a card that says.. "Hello. By handing you this card I am "officially" notifiying you of my compliance of Section xxx.xxx" of the code of Virginia. Thank you.
    What does the bill state?

    Would we berequired to notify them that we are complying with the statute, or required to notify them that we are carrying a concealed handgun?
    A difference without a distinction

    I'm not so sure.

    Its one thing to tell them you are carrying a concealed handgun.

    Its something else to hand them a card telling them you are complying with 18.2-XYZJ, which doesn't really tell them you are carrying a concealed handgun. It puts it on them to look it up to find out that you are carrying a concealed handgun. I don't think this is really notification. Its more like a hint or clue. The only way I can see it is if the card included a declaration that you were carrying a concealed handgun.\

    If that were the case, I kinda like the card-notification idea. Its quiet. And you can print helpful information. Here might be a first draft:
    I would like to let you know that I am a law-abiding citizen who takes self-defense seriously. Virginia State Law requires me to let you know that I am both licensed to carry a concealed handgun and am now carrying my personal defense handgun, discreetly concealed. I have passed a police criminal backround check; andI have passed the state-mandated gun safety training.

    PS: I tipvery well for good service.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    It doesn't really matter... the governor is going to veto it anyway.

    But as a practical matter, I don't see walking it to a restaurant, asking for the ABC manager and saying, "I've got a gun." Perhaps we should have them add convenience stores and banks to the bill.

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    jegoodin wrote:
    It doesn't really matter... the governor is going to veto it anyway.

    But as a practical matter, I don't see walking it to a restaurant, asking for the ABC manager and saying, "I've got a gun." Perhaps we should have them add convenience stores and banks to the bill.
    Are there enough votes and political will to override a veto?

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    At least the police can stillget hammeredwhile carrying concealed :P...so long as they're carrying out official police business .



    I like the card idea too. It'd be an interesting momento for them to show their friends later to go along with the story they will surely tell.

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    I agree that it's not a big win, but every little one helps.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    I still predict that eventually the notification requirement will have to go away. It will irritate and inconvenience everyone involved (the concealed gun carriers and especially the ABC Managers on duty) and it does not provide any tangible benefit.

    Probably better to get this first step done this year, and then make it better next year.

    I'm still surprised if there is not some Restaurant Association very much opposed to this notification idea.

    TFred
    There is. The Virginia Hospitality and Travel Association has been at loggerheads with gun owners over this. If they would simply support concealed carry, more of their patrons would not even know, bad guys' behavior would not change, and good guys who choose not to OC for some reason would have the protection and advantage they need. A win all around. Dunno why VHTA can't see that.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    WCrawford wrote:
    Are there enough votes and political will to override a veto?
    No.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Looks like an entrapment bill. Doesn't telling someone you have a gun lean
    towards brandishing.
    I can see telling the bank teller, "I have a gun" and before you can finnish the statement
    you are on the floor being charged with armed robbery.

    I like the card idea, but also how about another one stateing you are not openly carrying,
    now you aknowledge a gun exists, and common sence means you have it hidden.:celebrate

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Umm, the notify clause only affects restaurants where alcohol is served.

    I wouldn't worry about your bank. Highly unlikely you'll find an ABC manager behind the counter there.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    I didn't see a penalty for failure to notify, only for consumption while carrying. If that's true, why bother notifying?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Notso wrote:
    I didn't see a penalty for failure to notify, only for consumption while carrying. If that's true, why bother notifying?
    It looks as though the Engrossed version has been amended. See:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...91+ful+SB1035E

    The strike-through text does not format properly here, so I simply removed it, but they did add the sections in brackets.

    From paragraph J3:

    A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club shall inform [an authorized alcohol beverage control manager] of the restaurant or club that he is carrying a concealed handgun [ , and a person who fails to do so is guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor] .
    TFred

    ETA: Location of text.

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    That is retarded if you have to notify them when you walk into the restaurant.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Jim Thorpe wrote:
    That is retarded if you have to notify them when you walk into the restaurant.
    No one ever said that all of our lawmakers were guilty of extreme logical thought processes.

    What this requirement does is to limit those CCers who might chose to exercise their rights and further limits the number of managers willing to put up with the inconvenience. Can you imagine a CC dinner with 30 people lined up to see the manager?
    Maybe we need a "Sign In - Sign Out" sheet. If I were to CC (I won't) under these circumstances, I will carry a form for the manager to sign indicating that he/she has been duly informed et al.

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Well I can certainly see a situation where you arrive at a restaurant, and you tell the right person that you have a hogleg under your coat. You proceed to your table and have a nice meal, and as you are rising to leave, you firearm prints and the LEO at the next table decides to "detain" you for a brief discussion. Only then when he calls the ABC manager on duty over do you discover that the person you spoke to was on the LAST shift and the guy on duty has no idea you are carrying.

    So having something for the ABC manager to sign would be useful, but I don't for a second think anyone at a restaurant will actually sign something for a person carrying a firearm. Maybe after the word gets around and the restaurants have time to establish a policy.

    The fact is the notification requirement needs to go away. It is just bad law.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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