Virginia Senate passes restaurant carry, rejects private gun sales ban

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nickerj1 wrote:

How do you prosecute and/or enforce this? Presumably, if you're CC'ing, you won't be identified as carrying a gun and the cops will never be involved with you.

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My concern would be a LEO conducting a Frisk. His rationale? Why, officer safety, of course. Oh look, he exclaims, a gun. Did you inform the ABC manager? No? Well, stay right here, I'm writing you up.

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Repeater wrote:

My concern would be a LEO conducting a Frisk. His rationale? Why, officer safety, of course. Oh look, he exclaims, a gun. Did you inform the ABC manager? No? Well, stay right here, I'm writing you up.

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You could distract him at the critical moment.

"Hey, look at her! She should work at Hooters!!"

Or, you could try ridicule: "No, you idiot. I just got in the door. Now, gimme a table for three, Mr. Hostess."

Or, something really slick: "Of course. I e-mailed ahead on my PDA. What seems tobe the problem officer?"

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It would be an interesting experiment.... Find your favorite anti-gun restaurant and let the manager start turning away 20, 30, 40 pre-arranged armed family visits each evening and see how long he keeps his anti stance.

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Exactly who or what is an Authorized ABC Manager? The term is not defined in the ABC codes.

§ 4.1-100. Definitions.

It appears to be a made-up term.

ABC License No person is designated in the license as a manger.

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Notso wrote:

It would be an interesting experiment.... Find your favorite anti-gun restaurant and let the manager start turning away 20, 30, 40 pre-arranged armed family visits each evening and see how long he keeps his anti stance.

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I first thought of the same thing that someone else already posted -- if this is enacted (if not vetoed) a restaurant will have X number of patrons notifying they are CC, which will cause the place to post the "No Guns" sign because all of sudden people want to bring guns into the restaurant where they weren't before (the occasional OC notwithstanding). So this notification glitch could make the new rule self-defeating, who knows?

But you make a good point about an experiment of being turned away. That might have had limited success a couple years ago when dozens of people are standing around waiting for a table, but what about recent days when the revenues of many local restaurants have really taken a hit? Mentioning that VA now has 175,000 CHP holders wouldn't hurt either.

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Virginiaplanter wrote:

Exactly who or what is an Authorized ABC Manager? The term is not defined in the ABC codes.

§ 4.1-100. Definitions.

It appears to be a made-up term.

ABC License No person is designated in the license as a manger.

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From my personal experience, the restaurant is required to post the ABC managers names by the bar or in a general area (I'm not sure what the regulations are here...). So you would have to go in and see who is the ABC manager on duty. This is just a bad thing.

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With this being said though. If you inform the ABC manager can they still deny us service even though we are following the letter of the law?

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xd.40 wrote:

Virginiaplanter wrote:

Exactly who or what is an Authorized ABC Manager? The term is not defined in the ABC codes.

§ 4.1-100. Definitions.

It appears to be a made-up term.

ABC License No person is designated in the license as a manger.

Click to expand...

From my personal experience, the restaurant is required to post the ABC managers names by the bar or in a general area (I'm not sure what the regulations are here...). So you would have to go in and see who is the ABC manager on duty. This is just a bad thing.

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The regulatory authority is here:

3VAC5-50-40. Designated managers of licensees; appointment generally; disapproval by board; restrictions upon employment.


A. Each licensee, except a licensed individual who is on the premises, shall have a designated manager present and in actual charge of the business being conducted under the license at any time the licensed establishment is kept open for business, whether or not the privileges of the license are being exercised. The name of the designated manager of every retail licensee shall be kept posted in a conspicuous place in the establishment, in letters not less than one inch in size, during the time he is in charge.

The posting of the name of a designated manager shall qualify such person to act in that capacity until disapproved by the board.

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SlackwareRobert wrote:

Looks like an entrapment bill. Doesn't telling someone you have a gun lean
towards brandishing.
I can see telling the bank teller, "I have a gun" and before you can finnish the statement
you are on the floor being charged with armed robbery.

I like the card idea, but also how about another one stateing you are not openly carrying,
now you aknowledge a gun exists, and common sence means you have it hidden.:celebrate

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It's only brandishing if done as a threat or if the person seeing the gun thinks it's a threat. If it becomes common practice to notify then I can't see how it would be brandishing.

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The best part is, you are a criminal up until they can get the ABC manager for you - because technically you haven't informed anyone that you are carrying concealed in the restaurant. So if you have to wait around 10 minutes for the manager to show up, you broke the law for 10 minutes. :banghead:

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hsmith wrote:

The best part is, you are a criminal up until they can get the ABC manager for you - because technically you haven't informed anyone that you are carrying concealed in the restaurant. So if you have to wait around 10 minutes for the manager to show up, you broke the law for 10 minutes. :banghead:

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OC 'till then :lol:

Yata hey

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why couldnt everyone, armed or not, simply tell the manager that they are CC'ing.

i have to agree with grapeshot and others.. OC solves all problems.

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Spectre wrote:

With this being said though. If you inform the ABC manager can they still deny us service even though we are following the letter of the law?

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Yes, unless they also change this part:

O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308