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Thread: Firearms Class last night....

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    I am currently attending the Reserve Police Officer academy at the Spokane Regional Training Center. We've gone through almost two weeks of training and last night was our first introduction to firearms. Our instructors immediatley said, this is not firearms training. They than said, "this is gunfighter training." They both said that the reason for this name change is to get us into the gunfighter mentality.

    If a gun battle started while we we were on duty, we would be the ones to walk away because we are tactical gunfighters. We all have to have that mentality because no matter what, whereever we go there will always be a gun present. We have to be able to protect ourselves and, if needed, protect other citizens around us.

    I really like the change in the name. We all know our firearms, now we just have to be in the mind set to use them in a tactical way if needed. Our instructors at the academy could not stress enough that we are gunfighters because we will walk away from the gun fight. I just thought that was really interesting and true.

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    disgusting

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    We are heroes aren't we.

    modern day gunfighters. anyone who opposes us will be gunned down. can't resist a gunfighter, you'll get killed.

    Just wait till your week long STOP RESISTING, TAZE HIM training is so much fun. I really enjoyed pretending it was a 65 year old man with a pistol while i was there.

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    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    ocman1991A1 wrote:
    disgusting
    whats disgusting?

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    In those occupations where force may be required to solicit co-operation, some things may be better left unspoken.
    While your words have a ring of truth to them, to all who will interpret them as an excessive use of force, you will come away smudged by those words.
    Sometimes silence speaks a mighty axiom
    Peace thru superior firepower, defensor pacis

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    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    Velocitas, Opprimere, Violentia Operandi

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    sempercarry wrote:
    Velocitas, Opprimere, Violentia Operandi
    Speed, oppression and violence of action, eh? What exactly are you trying to say?

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    I always liked the "good old days", when the cops were the good guys and "gunfighters" were the bad guys on westerns. Is that the image your instructor wants?
    I personally think there is a better way of putting it. Perhaps I just missed the boat or something but in this day and age, the police need a little more positive image than "gunfighters", just sounds like you're itching for a fight or something. Maybe that's where all the trust went...
    Just like in my profession, one bad mechanic or shop will make it nearly impossible for new customers to trust us, even though we never did anything to harm them. Positive image is paramount in this world today, don't blow it by being some pumped-up goon that just wants to shoot someone. It's not fun and there's ALWAYS a mess to clean up afterward.
    When the **** hits the fan, ask yourself: What Would Bugly Do?

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    We were taught the same thing/verbiage in 2 advanced handgun classes I have taken. It is more about a survival mindset than anything else.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member Johnny Law's Avatar
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    deepdiver wrote:
    We were taught the same thing/verbiage in 2 advanced handgun classes I have taken. It is more about a survival mindset than anything else.
    Right on the money Deepdiver. What they are trying to impress upon the students is a mindset that will get you through a violent encounter alive.

    It is absolutely not implying that a gun is the ultimate solution to almost any encounter, or that you should "go to guns" quicker. It is however what any good Cop knows and adheres to. If you are proficient with your weapons, you have an advantage over opponents. Right from the very beginning of Police training you are taught that youmust winANY andALL fights (we're not talking arguments here). The price of losing is that you may well be killed. That is not acceptable. This is what keeps you safe, and alive.

    I have taken several advanced classes (the bulletproof mind, Officer survival etc.) and they will definetly open your eyes, and change your mindset. They use words like; sheepdog, gunfighter, and modern warrior, but whateverthey call you,it will teach you how to stay alive, and if you don't agree with that, consider the alternative.
    If you have to fight, do not fear death. We will all die one day, so fight skillfully and bravely! And if it is to be that you die, then at least go to God proudly. Meet him as the proud warrior that you are, and not as a sniveling coward. Nobody lives forever.

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    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    vote_no wrote:
    sempercarry wrote:
    Velocitas, Opprimere, Violentia Operandi
    Speed, oppression and violence of action, eh? What exactly are you trying to say?
    Speed surprise and violence of action. Its the 3 fundamentals of close quarters combat and my units motto.

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    Geez, ease up on the guy, will ya?

    Last night he started his firearm training and now he's got the LEO magic and just can't loose a fight 'cause he's "tactical." That doesn't impress you? I know I'm impressed- it never occurred to me to use a firearm "tactically" before and I'm sure the "bad" guys haven't figured that out either. That's why LEOs never get killed on duty, unless, of course it's some kind of sneaky, 'cowardly' attack. Wait, good tactics should prevent attacks from being successful, 'cowardly' or otherwise. Hmm, maybe one night or a few weeks of instruction does not a gunfighter make (unless it's at the Spokane Regional Training Center).

    Anyway, good luck with your career and walking away from those gunfights.

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    This is getting brutal in here.

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    In those occupations where force may be required to solicit co-operation, some things may be better left unspoken.
    While your words have a ring of truth to them, to all who will interpret them as an excessive use of force, you will come away smudged by those words.

    Yes, but there can be a point where so much is left unspoken that communications become impossible without a dictionary/Interpreter. Illumination by translation is called for.

    Allow Me:

    "In those Occupations where force may be required."

    Trans: Police/Security/Armed Citizen with a carry permit/Firearm's instructor.

    "force may be required to solicit co-operation"

    Trans: You might have to pull a gun to save your life.

    "some things may be better left unspoken."

    Trans: Don't SAY ANYTHING or you will end up defending those words in court to people with political, financial and racial agenda's. Whole books have been written on how to talk (or not talk) to the police/witnesses/in court in a case of self defense. Be certain you read them.


    "While your words have a ring of truth to them"

    When you shot Jamal/Juan*, he had 27 priors for robbery, assault, weapons violations; his body is covered in gang tattoo's. His car is filled with anti-white RAP music albums, his blood alcohol was twice the legal limit for driving and he tested positive for cocaine, heron and Meth. Three of the four friends of Jamal/Juan admit they were out looking for someone to "Jack". You have defensive cuts on your arms and the security camera in the area backs up your story.

    to all who will interpret them


    Jamal's family, their Attorney, Black/Hispanic Activist groups, Political/Anti-police/Gun Hating Liberals, Newspapers, TV.

    as an excessive use of force

    I could write 50,000+ words here.

    The attorney for the family will twist everything trying to extract money out of you or send you to jail. Caliber of gun (If small caliber you were firing a short barreled "Saturday Night Special" that is inaccurate and a danger to bystanders, not useful for defense but a "killers gun"; if 40, 44 or 45, you were a Dirty Harry Vigilante trying to get even with someone), You level and type of training ("Please explain to the jury just what is a Mozambique Drill and how does an African country relate to gunfighting nomenclature seeing you shot an African-American?"), number of shots fired (how many did you fire and how many hit), the possibly of retreat, you age, sex, armor, could anything you said have provoked Jamal/Juan, what your blood alcohol level was, what did Jamal/Juan's friends say you said (Can you prove you didn't say a racial slur, because his friends will say you did just before you shot him in the head) what you were doing out at night, everything!


    , you will come away smudged by those words.


    They will try to carve you up like a roast. The family will say that Jamal/Juan was "just turning his life around and was getting ready to go to college" or "that he was a good boy who always loved his mother". Sobbing family members will gleefully be shown on television talking about how Jamal/Juan positively affected their lives while you will be shown in the most negative light. If you are a private citizen and have any personal or inherited property it better be in the mattress or in carefully crafted Trusts because their first move will be "get your money frozen" so you can't sell anything or hire a decent lawyer. If you are a regular Cop, odds are 1 in 3 that you will be retired from the force or transferred to desk work. The case may drag on for years, in fact it is in the assailants' families best interest to drag the case out as long as possible so as to put as much time and doubt between the incident and settlement to get as much money out of you (or the force that hired you) as possible. You will be physically affected by the stress of this constant rehashing of a self defense incident and the threat of being found guilty of murder, causing blood pressure and heart problems, depression, marriage problems, a whole list of physiological and psychological issues. You picture and family life will be portrayed on the internet, maybe every your street address, forcing a move. You associations and Website Memberships (Like OPEN CARRY.ORG) will be examined. Websites like (http://underprivilegedjournalism.wordpress.com) will watch you, slander you and wish for your death. If you have a job meeting with the public you probably will lose it as the company you work for may suddenly no longer require your services. On and On. It may never end.

    But you will be alive.

    Translation concluded...

    *As 90% of interracial incidences are Blacks/Hispanics attacking Whites/Asians (according to FBI crime statistics) and nearly 60% of ALL violent crime, I have used the combined name Jamal/Juan to represent both black (meaning Americans of indeterminate percentage of African extraction) and Hispanic (which is technically not a race per se but may be an illegal Alien person or American citizen whose first language is Spanish but originated from South America, Middle America (Such as El Salvador) or Mexico) as representation of an "Average" gang member/mugger/Armed Robber/burglar/criminal assailant. Any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental.


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    Wheelgunner wrote:
    Taken out for space
    You make me lawl

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    i'm a national treasure. i should be able to shoot anyone i want.

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    You guys are all reading into this like all I want to do is kill people and look for gun fights. All I said with my original post was that if I were to get into a gunfight, I would be the one to walk away. Plan and simple.

    I wasn't trying to put the persona that all I care is killing people and trying to get into dangerous situations.

    To all that are offended by my post, please look at it in a different light. We are all here to support one another and not to bash on others who have a proactive view on when force may be necessary.

    If all you can do is bash on me for my comments, that's fine. Because of all the responses, it appears that all of you carry guns as a novelty item and not for what it was intended for and to carry for what it was intended for is ungodly and unamerican. That is strictly my opinion.I know I'm going to get a bunch of static for this post as well. I just thought it would be interesting to tell everyone about something my instructor said.

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    K_Bjornstad wrote:
    You guys are all reading into this like all I want to do is kill people and look for gun fights. All I said with my original post was that if I were to get into a gunfight, I would be the one to walk away. Plan and simple.

    I wasn't trying to put the persona that all I care is killing people and trying to get into dangerous situations.

    To all that are offended by my post, please look at it in a different light. We are all here to support one another and not to bash on others who have a proactive view on when force may be necessary.

    If all you can do is bash on me for my comments, that's fine. Because of all the responses, it appears that all of you carry guns as a novelty item and not for what it was intended for and to carry for what it was intended for is ungodly and unamerican. That is strictly my opinion.I know I'm going to get a bunch of static for this post as well. I just thought it would be interesting to tell everyone about something my instructor said.
    i doubt your 2 days of "gunfighter" training is going to make you rambo.

    like some gangbangers 10 years of killing other idiots didn't make him good at it

    your 2 days of gunfighter training will make you john wayne in comancheros. get it right

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    Did I say I was a gunfighter? No I didn't. I never said because of my 4 hours of class work I am rambo and I'm the best shot and that I'll always with the fight. Stop reading into what I say and make it out be more than it is.

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    To reword what I believe to by the original intention and thought.

    While not proactively looking to be in a fight (like many peoples percepting of the old western gunslinger) the idea is to have a mentality that if you should happen to end up in a life or death situation, you need to be the one that has a cold, calm, and collected mind and demeanor to make sure you go home to your family.

    My opinions are worth every cent I charge and there are no refunds.

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    i'm a national treasure. i should be able to shoot anyone i want.



    Besides being a sick freak, what is your problem?



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    While not proactively looking to be in a fight (like many peoples perception of the old western gunslinger) the idea is to have a mentality that if you should happen to end up in a life or death situation, you need to be the one that has a cold, calm, and collected mind and demeanor to make sure you go home to your family.

    Agreed. Akido and Iado teaches rapid movement with inner tranquility. No wasted motion nor panic. It is a very good supplement to gunfighting techniques.



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