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Thread: National Park rule changes

  1. #1
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    Stupid question:

    The new regulations allowing people with CHP to carry concealed in National Parks is already in effect and has not yet been reversed by new administration, right? Gonna go to Shenandoah and Skyline drive this weekend and just wanted to make absolutely sure that i can be legally packing.

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    You are good to go, the process to change what already was in place takes time.

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    hsmith wrote:
    You are good to go, the process to change what already was in place takes time.
    Awesome! Thanks a lot!

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    I just FOIA'd them asking whether the officers had been trained re: the new rule, AND, would lawful open carry cause a problem.

    I await their reply. When it comes I will post it here.

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    6L6GC wrote:
    I just FOIA'd them asking whether the officers had been trained re: the new rule, AND, would lawful open carry cause a problem.

    I await their reply. When it comes I will post it here.
    The rule change only allows CC.

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    yeah, I know that, but I just want to see what they say. gotta throw 'em a bone ya know. I don't really care what they say, no matter what it is I just want it in writing.

    If they say something to the effect of: "we are aware of the change and will abide by the new law and etc", then they arrest/hassle someone I/we will have something to send to the person's attorney.


    Every little bit helps.

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    "Trust, but Verify" -- Ronald Reagan



    TFred


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    This is great... When did this go into effect again? So now you can CC (provided you have the license) in all of the Shenandoah Park, etc.? That's huge for me, because when I go outbacking up there, it always frustrated me that I could not CC (as that is the time you want to).

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    Jim Thorpe wrote:
    This is great... When did this go into effect again? So now you can CC (provided you have the license) in all of the Shenandoah Park, etc.? That's huge for me, because when I go outbacking up there, it always frustrated me that I could not CC (as that is the time you want to).
    I think it went through the 10th of Jan? I can't recall. There are a good few threads on it here, search the news forum

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    Have a look at the sticky thread at the very top of this forum. Mike posted a link to a photo taken at the stroke of midnight when the rule went into effect on January 9th, 2009.

  11. #11
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    Jim Thorpe wrote:
    This is great... When did this go into effect again? So now you can CC (provided you have the license) in all of the Shenandoah Park, etc.? That's huge for me, because when I go outbacking up there, it always frustrated me that I could not CC (as that is the time you want to).
    Welcome to the front lines.

    There is a mounting fight to close this option off again. You should try to stay more on top of this issue since it is of particular interest to you and join the rest of us in the fight to keep this new regulation in place and open it up to include OC.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Maybe we all need to have cookouts in the national parks. Show we are "good people" who aren't out slaughtering wildlife, children, babies, and grandparents.

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    hsmith wrote:
    Maybe we all need to have cookouts in the national parks. Show we are "good people" who aren't out slaughtering wildlife, children, babies, and grandparents.
    We already do, but since CC is the rule, nobody would see any difference between this month and this time last year.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  14. #14
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    Use large banners and signs to identify the site. :what:
    'Till the last landings made, and we stand unafraid, on a shore not mortal has seen,
    'Till the last bugle call, sounds taps for us all,
    It's Semper Fidelis, MARINE!

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    At the last VCDL meeting I casually asked Phillip if we were going to have a VCDL picnic in a National Park this year. I think it's a good idea, especially if we can put up a banner or two and get some publicity, let people know we're out there, and we're not going away. So I'm on board with this. We need to pick a place and a date sometime in the late spring, reserve a spot with tables and grills, and organize food and supplies. Shouldn't be too hard, just a scaled up OC cookout, really, except we have to deal with the NPS dicknoses and make sure we don't break any rules and get the right permits and all (except CC only, of course, at least for now).

    ETA: There is a lot open to interpretation in the new regs, so we REALLY need to avoid pushing the envelope on rules. Don't do anything stupid and remember that if you get pinched during the event, it reflects badly on the whole group.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    At the last VCDL meeting I casually asked Phillip if we were going to have a VCDL picnic in a National Park this year. I think it's a good idea, especially if we can put up a banner or two and get some publicity, let people know we're out there, and we're not going away. So I'm on board with this. We need to pick a place and a date sometime in the late spring, reserve a spot with tables and grills, and organize food and supplies. Shouldn't be too hard, just a scaled up OC cookout, really, except we have to deal with the NPS dicknoses and make sure we don't break any rules and get the right permits and all (except CC only, of course, at least for now).

    ETA: There is a lot open to interpretation in the new regs, so we REALLY need to avoid pushing the envelope on rules. Don't do anything stupid and remember that if you get pinched during the event, it reflects badly on the whole group.
    I would suggest Prince William Forest park or Great Falls Park. Both are close in and both have picnic facilities. Prince William Forest even has camping and we could set up a camp where folks could come by all weekend, with a VCDL table.


    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  17. #17
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    At the last VCDL meeting I casually asked Phillip if we were going to have a VCDL picnic in a National Park this year. I think it's a good idea, especially if we can put up a banner or two and get some publicity, let people know we're out there, and we're not going away. So I'm on board with this. We need to pick a place and a date sometime in the late spring, reserve a spot with tables and grills, and organize food and supplies. Shouldn't be too hard, just a scaled up OC cookout, really, except we have to deal with the NPS dicknoses and make sure we don't break any rules and get the right permits and all (except CC only, of course, at least for now).

    ETA: There is a lot open to interpretation in the new regs, so we REALLY need to avoid pushing the envelope on rules. Don't do anything stupid and remember that if you get pinched during the event, it reflects badly on the whole group.
    I would suggest Prince William Forest park or Great Falls Park. Both are close in and both have picnic facilities. Prince William Forest even has camping and we could set up a camp where folks could come by all weekend, with a VCDL table.

    That is a great Idea. Count both me and Harper in.

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    6L6GC wrote:
    yeah, I know that, but I just want to see what they say. gotta throw 'em a bone ya know. I don't really care what they say, no matter what it is I just want it in writing.

    If they say something to the effect of: "we are aware of the change and will abide by the new law and etc", then they arrest/hassle someone I/we will have something to send to the person's attorney.


    Every little bit helps.
    Come on... You didn't really think I would simply disappear from their radar, did you?

    Go to:

    http://www.bighammer.net/postnpsrepeal.html

    and click on:

    http://www.bighammer.net/images/0109...rearmsRule.pdf

    Note the author. Anyone hear remember that name? :celebrate

    Yes, as a matter of fact NPS doesknow about the new rule and so doALL of the park superintendents.

    Tomohawk - You mean you haven't had a picnic in a National Park yet? :P

  19. #19
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I've had this question in the back of my mind, and the new posts today as well as the report that a couple of groups in Maine have joined the lawsuits attempting to overturn the new rule have just reminded me to ask it...

    If I understand it correctly, the two lawsuits are asking a judge to invalidate or overturn the concealed carry rule.

    Here's my question: Can Obama direct the Department of Interior to not contest the lawsuits? Essentially, just give up? If they don't "show up" to defend the lawsuits in court, can/will the judge rule for the plaintiffs by default?

    TFred


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    can he? Sure. Will he?

    Think about this. When was the last time you can remember any federal agency abdicating and admitting in open court "Your honor, the plaintiff is correct, we were wrong".

    Our government is incapable of admitting wrong and even when they're wrong they will go to the ends of the earth to defend it. The abdication would set a precedent that other presidents could then exercise.

    In short, yes, the chief executive could instruct DOI to abdicate, but I highly doubt that would take place.



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    since we are posting Pictures this was taken Jan 20th at Shark Valley National Park, Everglades, Florida

    no signs nor did they ask at the gate about firearms

    sprat

  22. #22
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Mr. Y wrote:
    can he? Sure. Will he?

    Think about this. When was the last time you can remember any federal agency abdicating and admitting in open court "Your honor, the plaintiff is correct, we were wrong".

    Our government is incapable of admitting wrong and even when they're wrong they will go to the ends of the earth to defend it. The abdication would set a precedent that other presidents could then exercise.

    In short, yes, the chief executive could instruct DOI to abdicate, but I highly doubt that would take place.
    I hope you are right, I am just afraid that Team Obama might look at it as the quickest and fastest way to "overturn" the rule that they didn't agree with in the first place.


    TFred

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    Yes, sometimes the government allows itself to be sued in order to change a rule or a law without having to do it the hard (constitutional) way, but I think Y is right on this one.

    I only hope Obama is not stupid and wisely chooses to avoid an early confrontation with gun owners.

  24. #24
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    See an update to this issue on this thread:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/21990.html

    TFred


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