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  1. #1
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    well i am just throwing this out there...am i the only one that think with as much as it cost to get...well maybe they could issue CC permits that were not so damn cheap??? i mean for those that have seen a non-resident Va permit..its hard plastic and even has a pic of you on it...my NH non-resident is hard plastic and has pretty colours on it for only 20 bucks...sorry i just think there wouldnt be an issue with the courts fussing and draging there heals on issueing new permits to folks who washed theres...dog ate it..etc...thats all. i am grateful that we even get one in VA...but thats just one little thing that bothered me.

    thank you for your time..now im going to go outside and see if they fixed a pothole by my house...two years down...anyday now..anyday

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    Yep, it certainly is annoying. My last one (from VA Beach) was about as thin as tissue paper and cut just big enough that you couldn't fit it in a standard wallet pocket -- very annoying.

    Most recent one (Fairfax County) is actually the right size, but still a flimsy little thing. You'd think they could make it like a drivers license or something. But hey, I guess they have to have some way of poking us in the eye, right?

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    Yeah, I accidentally washed my wallet the other day with my permit in it. Luckily it dried out without too much fading and wrinkling, but a plastic one would be better. Can we laminate these ourselves or is that against some code?

    edited for spelling

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    Nozoki wrote:
    Yeah, I accidentally washed my wallet the other day with my permit in it. Luckily it dried out without too much fading and wrinkling, but a plastic one would be better. Can we laminate these ourselves or is that against some code?

    edited for spelling
    You can laminate it.

    There's a guy who does the Richmond gun show with a machine for that. I think that he charges a few dollars.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    I laminated it as soon as I got it. Make sure you sign it before laminating

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    I made several copies of my permitand went toOffice Depot and boughta do-it-yourselflaminatepackage and laminated them.

  7. #7
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    I suspect that the reason VA Non-resident permits (and NH, too) are of higher quality is because they're issued by their respective State Police instead of local governments.

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    I think it costs something around 40 cents if you go to a Kinko's and get them to laminate a small card for you.

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    It must be a VA thing. I know when we moved, I sent in our change of address information for DMV, and they sent us postcards, with instructions that we were to cut along the dotted lines and keep the information with our license. I seriously question the survival of ANY piece of paper in my wallet (we won't even TALK about hubby's wallet) for 4 years (until my DL expires), so I laminated them both.

    Sounds like I need to dig out the laminator again for my CHP, hm?

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    No laws / policies against laminating our concealed permits. When I picked up mine from the Norfolk Clerk's office, they offered to laminate it for me for $1. That was a no brainer. Saved me the hassle of going someplace to do the same.

    Once laminated, I took it home and trimmed the plastic enough that it would match the slots in my wallet for credit cards and the like.

    My permit card was made of some card stock. Not very flimsy other than the paper it was made of would tear in a fuzzy manner should it get ripped.

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    I for one, agree, and this has always bothered me about the Virginia permit. With minimal time and effort, I could produce an exact replica on my PC.

    As an OPTION, we should be able to carry our permit down to the local DMV and get a photo-ID permit that would supercede the current requirement to have a valid state-issued photo ID along with the cheap, flimsy piece of scrap paper that says were legit.

    Of course, in a perfect world - we wouldn't need a damn permit in the first place.

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    Armed wrote:
    Of course, in a perfect world - we wouldn't need a damn permit in the first place.
    You got that right!

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    Armed wrote:
    I for one, agree, and this has always bothered me about the Virginia permit. With minimal time and effort, I could produce an exact replica on my PC.

    As an OPTION, we should be able to carry our permit down to the local DMV and get a photo-ID permit that would supercede the current requirement to have a valid state-issued photo ID along with the cheap, flimsy piece of scrap paper that says were legit.

    Of course, in a perfect world - we wouldn't need a damn permit in the first place.
    My non-resident Maine permit costs 60 bucks, has almost the same requirements as VA (they also want a birth certificate) and they put your picture on the reverse side of the nice plastic card they issue. Virginia's cost 50 bucks and it's a friggen piece of paper with no photo.

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    curtiswr wrote:
    I think it costs something around 40 cents if you go to a Kinko's and get them to laminate a small card for you.
    When you handed the card to Kinko's for laminating, did you switch to open carry? Because, technically, you did not have the permit on your person for those few minutes...

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    How long does it take to get the CHP in the mail for Fairfax County? What about Prince William County? My friend and I had fingerprint cards done, but none were requested for either counties. Strange?

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    Bah Humbug wrote:
    How long does it take to get the CHP in the mail for Fairfax County? What about Prince William County? My friend and I had fingerprint cards done, but none were requested for either counties. Strange?
    Not strange. Each location is allowed to decide for themselves whether or not they require fingerprints to be submitted.

    This is not a good thing, but it is not strange.

    TFred

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    Chuckles wrote:
    curtiswr wrote:
    I think it costs something around 40 cents if you go to a Kinko's and get them to laminate a small card for you.
    When you handed the card to Kinko's for laminating, did you switch to open carry? Because, technically, you did not have the permit on your person for those few minutes...
    I never said anything about a CC permit. I just referenced a small card. I always OC, I don't have a CHP.

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    It costs as much as it does in order to pay for all the things that make it come to be, not just the paper on which its printed. I don't want it to cost any more than it does already.

    A few of the things that come to mind: Paper materials for the applications; the people who have to write and standardize the application; the ink used to fill out the application; running the background checks; the manilla envelope you get from the Sheriff's department that contains the background check results and your application; paying all the people invlovled in getting the contents of that manilla envelope from you to the clerk; mailing the permit to you in a white envelope along with a printed copy of relevant laws; mine came with a hefty paperclip, too.

    A fee of up to $100 may be collected for the non-resident permit, while a resident permit may cost no more than $50 total.

    You bring up an interesting question, though. If your permit is damaged such that it is illegible, or if it is lost entirely, do you have to start over from scratch?

    There's only one section of code that references the issuance of a replacement permit and you must provide proof of a *new* address as well as present the original permit.

    ----
    18.2-308:
    <snip>
    K1. The clerk of a circuit court that issued a valid concealed handgun permit shall, upon presentation of the valid permit and proof of a new address of residence by the permit holder, issue a replacement permit specifying the permit holder's new address. The clerk of court shall forward the permit holder's new address of residence to the State Police. The State Police may charge a fee not to exceed $5, and the clerk of court issuing the replacement permit may charge a fee not to exceed $5. The total amount assessed for processing a replacement permit pursuant to this subsection shall not exceed $10, with such fees to be paid in one sum to the person who accepts the information for the replacement permit.
    <snip>
    ----


  19. #19
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    Heavens, that seems like a lot of stuff.

    It may depend on the county, of course. I'm just gathering everything together for mine.

    Paper materials for the applications
    (I printed my own via the Internet - do I get a discount?)

    the people who have to write and standardize the application
    (still needed)

    the ink used to fill out the application
    (minimal, but I'll grant you that)

    running the background checks
    (still needed)

    the manilla envelope you get from the Sheriff's department that contains the background check results and your application
    (I get this?)

    paying all the people involved in getting the contents of that manilla envelope from you to the clerk
    (I'm taking it directly to the court house Monday - to the clerk, though there may be other office folk involved, I suppose)

    mailing the permit to you in a white envelope along with a printed copy of relevant laws
    (I have to provide an SASE to get my stuff back)

    And I have to provide everything in triplicate (I guess to save the expense of copying).

  20. #20
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    Armed wrote:

    As an OPTION, we should be able to carry our permit down to the local DMV and get a photo-ID permit that would supercede the current requirement to have a valid state-issued photo ID along with the cheap, flimsy piece of scrap paper that says were legit.

    Sounds great, I like it. Problem is, DMV is pushing licenses back from 5 to 8 years just to keep customers (citizens) OUT of their offices.

    I know they used to provide this type of service to LEOs, not sure if they still do.

    -----------------

    If you wash your permit, just hand the LEO your wadded pulp!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
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  21. #21
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    Riana wrote:
    the manilla envelope you get from the Sheriff's department that contains the background check results and your application
    (I get this?)

    paying all the people involved in getting the contents of that manilla envelope from you to the clerk
    (I'm taking it directly to the court house Monday - to the clerk, though there may be other office folk involved, I suppose)

    mailing the permit to you in a white envelope along with a printed copy of relevant laws
    (I have to provide an SASE to get my stuff back)

    And I have to provide everything in triplicate (I guess to save the expense of copying).
    You're right, it depends on the county. Loudoun county was pretty simple. First I went to the Sheriff's office. They gave me an application which I filled out on the spot. I provided one primary ID with photo and a secondary ID with name and address (driver's license and voter registration card) along with my old Pennsylvania hunter education card. They made copies then gave all of that back to me. I was in and out of the Sheriff's office within about 20 minutes. I made my way down the road to the Clerk of the Circuit Court with that large, sealed, manilla envelope that contained everything the Clerk would need. I didn't dare break the seal so I can only speculate that it contained the results of my background check and copies of the application and ID. I gave the Clerk's clerk the envelope with $40 and got a receipt. She said "You will get your permit in the mail." It took 23 days before I had the permit in my hand, YMMV. According to county records, for at least the last 3 years Loudoun county has issued 100% of its permits within 45 days.

    So Loudoun county does it $10 cheaper and requires very little work on the applicant's part. I just filled out an application, waited several minutes, and carried an envelope to the Clerk. The hardest part was digging through my closet to find my hunter education card.

    As for the question I asked earlier, I see that Fairfax county does address the issue of a lost permit. I have not found the same for Loudoun County.
    http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/courts/...CCR-CWP-20.pdf



  22. #22
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    (I have to provide an SASE to get my stuff back)
    No, you don't. This is an extra-legal requirement which has been discussed in other threads.

    The letter included with my permit from PWC recommended that I have it laminated. And yes, they paid for the envelope and stamp despite telling me that I had to provide one.

  23. #23
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    virginiatuck wrote:
    Loudoun county was pretty simple. First I went to the Sheriff's office. They gave me an application which I filled out on the spot. I provided one primary ID with photo and a secondary ID with name and address (driver's license and voter registration card) along with my old Pennsylvania hunter education card. They made copies then gave all of that back to me. I was in and out of the Sheriff's office within about 20 minutes. I made my way down the road to the Clerk of the Circuit Court with that large, sealed, manilla envelope that contained everything the Clerk would need. I didn't dare break the seal so I can only speculate that it contained the results of my background check and copies of the application and ID. I gave the Clerk's clerk the envelope with $40 and got a receipt. She said "You will get your permit in the mail."
    Why let them see or copy IDs? - you know all that crap is now a public record at the courthouse right? And anybody can copy it all and put it on the Internet.

    By statute you need only fill out the form, bring it in with proof of competency, and hand it in. No ID necessary - get it notoized before you go. No need to see the police unless your locality requires prints - somthing you should fight.

    if nobody fights this stuff, it will go on. You fight by refusing to comply, delivering gthe paplicatuion to the Clerk, and walking away.

  24. #24
    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    By statute you need only fill out the form, bring it in with proof of competency, and hand it in. No ID necessary - get it notoized before you go. No need to see the police unless your locality requires prints - somthing you should fight.
    The Sheriff's office was my notary. By using them, I paid no additional fee; only the $40 to the Clerk. Don't they have to *see* my ID in order to notarize the application?

    Come to think of it, I misspoke about the copying of my IDs. And I'm not just saying that. The lady only looked at my ID prior to notarizing the application. In fact, there was no second ID requirement. I was confused. Please forgive me.

    In the future, I'll try to be more diligent and try not to post any information here that may be inaccurate. I should have just posted this instead of trying to type out every detail from memory. I did exactly this, except I picked up my application from the Sheriff's office instead of the Clerk of the Circuit Court:
    http://www.loudoun.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=1424
    How do I obtain concealed weapon permits?
    First, you will need to pick up an application at the Clerk of the Circuit Court. Then bring your completed application with your Driver's license and proof of training (for new applications) or your old permit (for renewals). A criminal history check and driver's transcript will be completed while you wait. You will receive a sealed packet to be returned to the Circuit Court. The Court will collect the $40 fee. You should receive your permit within a few weeks.
    -------------------

    What do you think about the driver's transcript, Mike? Do you think Loudoun county is within the law by including that? Loudoun county also requires a list of addresses for the past five years. In my case, I had to provide not only my current address but one previous address. Was that legal? I was surprised by that requirement because the state law only states that there is no length of residency requirement, but I didn't see any real harm in providing the address after I was told that it was used to conduct the background check. And by not providing it, I feared that they may have been able to construe that I submitted false information on the application; The false information being that I lived at the address for the last five years. You got me thinking about it now, was it even legal?


    if nobody fights this stuff, it will go on. You fight by refusing to comply, delivering gthe paplicatuion to the Clerk, and walking away.
    You forgot the part where you fork over the $$$. Or is withholding the $$$ the fighting part?


    Why let them see or copy IDs? - you know all that crap is now a public record at the courthouse right? And anybody can copy it all and put it on the Internet
    You're referring to this, I take it:
    § 17.1-208. Records, etc., open to inspection; copies; exception.
    Except as otherwise provided by law, any records and papers of every circuit court that are maintained by the clerk of the circuit court shall be open to inspection by any person and the clerk shall, when requested, furnish copies thereof, except in cases in which it is otherwise specially provided. The certificate of the clerk to such copies shall, if the paper copied be recorded in a bound volume, contain the name and number of the volume and the page or folio at which the recordation of the paper begins and may charge a fee therefor pursuant to § 17.1-275. No person shall be permitted to use the clerk's office for the purpose of making copies of records in such manner, or to such extent, as will interfere with the business of the office or with its reasonable use by the general public.

    17.1-293 at least prevents the Clerk itself from posting sensitive information to the Internet. Though like you said Mike, there's nothing to stop Joe the Plumber from accessing just about any document that crosses the desk of the Clerk of the Circuit Court.


    17.1-208 is unfortunate for everyone who has a VACHP, not just someone who may have accidentally allowed sensitive information to be placed into a public court record. As many probably remember the debacle of the Roanoke Times publishing a list of CHP holders. Who needs the State Police to get a list anyway? There is nothing in the law that would stop Joe the Plumber from building his own list. I suppose that CHP holders' background checks as well as their driving records (in Loudoun County) are now public record, too. That is, if they weren't already.

    At least 17.1-208 begins with "Except as otherwise provided by law" so all we need is a law that excepts information associated with CHP applications. How hard could that be? :? Or maybe someone can find a law that already does. Does anyone have a link to the Attorney General's offical statement regarding CHP information dissemination from the Roanoke Times incident?

    I understand that this is an OC forum. Is this too far off topic? I apologize if it is. If it is, what would be an appropriate forum? Or does this simply belong in a new thread? Please advise.

  25. #25
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    virginiatuck wrote:
    At least 17.1-208 begins with "Except as otherwise provided by law" so all we need is a law that excepts information associated with CHP applications. How hard could that be? :? Or maybe someone can find a law that already does. Does anyone have a link to the Attorney General's offical statement regarding CHP information dissemination from the Roanoke Times incident?
    Unfortunately, the answer to your first question turns out to be "very hard." :X

    Here is the link to the Attorney General's opinon from the Roanoke Times incident:

    http://www.oag.state.va.us/OPINIONS/...027-Nutter.pdf

    The opinion clearly states in both the introduction and the summary that the AG believes that the existing law specifically reserves the use of CHP information for official purposes only, which would definitely preclude release to a non LE person, and especially a newspaper. As we all know, this opinion, and the corresponding portion of the law that drives it, are universally ignored by Clerks of the Court all over the Commonwealth of Virginia.

    The problem is that some anti-gun newspaper editors, who hide behind farce of "public service", feast once per month on the newly issued permits, publishing enough personal residence information to ensure that criminals know exactly which homes to invade or break in to, to steal guns.

    Since newspapers also endorse candidates, or their opponents, it has thus far proven impossible to pass legislation to specifically close this wide open leak of private information.

    TFred


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