Wells Fargo may lose me and my money

Vegassteve · Feb 6, 2009

imported post

Below is a email exchange over the last 10 days with Wells Fargo. Keep in mind I have been in this branch 6 times in the last 12 months to get a 25 dollar M.O. to add firearms to my CCW. I have OC every time. Not a blip from anyone until last time. And what I did not include in my original letter was that as I entered the very 2 people, who later stopped me on the way out, helped me on the way in. They gave me the forms helped fill them out and then sent me to the teller. I had amy 1911 on my hip. Now if they were truly fearful then why did they allow me to go ahead and conduct my biz with them? I still have not been in contact with the branch manager several phone calls later. I have even asked if she is in and would meet with me. No response so far. I would not even go into the bank but for some reason they will not do a M.O. at the drive up. What you also do not see here are the emails and phone calls I made each day until I could get someone to respond.

Now some may say I maybe should have gone CC in the bank. I see the point and understand it. And at times I do CC for personal reasons. I do OC about 75% of the time. I am also starting to care more about my rights though and have made the choice to OC more. If people can march in the streets to protest things that are not in the Bill of Rights then I should be able to have my own small protest.

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
-----------------

I went to your branch on CHEYENNE & SHADY TIMBERS in Las Vegas today. I needed a 25 dollar money order. I was greeted at the door and pointed to the teller. Upon exit I was stopped by the lady named XXXXX at the door and one man XXXXXXX. As is perfectly legal here in Nevada I had a holstered pistol on my hip. I am a registered Conceal Carry Permit holder in Nevada and Utah. Although today I was not concealed as it is legal in this state to open carry. I was told that it was against federal law to carry a firearm into a bank. Knowing myself this was a lie I pressed for further info. She said no it wasn't a federal law just Wells Fargo policy. If that is the case then your banks need to be properly signed. If this is the case that you do not allow legal citizens to use your branches while we are legal to carry then I will transfer my money to a bank that does. I look forward to your response.

RESPONSE
-------------------

From: Wells Fargo Online
Posted At: January 28, 2009
Subject: Other questions or requests
Dear Steve W:

We are sorry that the service you received did not meet your expectations. We constantly strive to provide you with the highest level of customer service. I have forwarded the details of your experience to the branch management team and requested that they contact you

We appreciate your business and thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with us.

Sincerely,
Joaquin Lopez
Wells Fargo Online Customer Service

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
-----------------

From: Posted At: 12:28:31.000 01/28/2009
Posted To:
Subject:

Thank you for getting in touch with the branch manager. I would like to know what Wells Fargos corp policy is though.Please respond.

RESPONSE
-------------------

From: Wells Fargo Online
Posted At: February 5, 2009
Subject: Other questions or requests

Dear Steve W:

Thank you for your follow-up email regarding the incident that occurred at our Cheyenne and Shady Timbers branch in Las Vegas surrounding your firearm.

Wells Fargo does not have a companywide policy about customers bringing firearms onto our property, nor do we have signage to that effect. However, the management of any of our branch stores may elect not to allow this, at its discretion, if, for example, it feels that the presence of a firearm could make employees or other customers uncomfortable.

While a carry permit entitles the permit holder to carry a firearm in public (e.g., on a public street), it does not compel the owner or lessee of private premises (such as a private home or business) to allow firearms on their property.

Wells Fargo strives to protect and ensure the safety and comfort of our customers and team members. We hope you will understand the actions and policies of our branches in that spirit.

Thank you for banking with Wells Fargo.

Sincerely,
Donna J. Germany
Wells Fargo Online
Customer Service

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
-----------------

From:
Posted At: 10:02:24.000 02/05/2009
Posted To:
Subject:

Thanks for the reply. My issue is that I was being lied to by your employee. Who told me it was a Federal law. That is not true. I wish to have the branch manager contact me soI may talk to them about this. So far they have failed to be around when I have tried to get ahold of them.

Thanks.

Received
February 5, 2009

From
Customer Service

Dear Steve W:

I am writing regarding your recent inquiry. I have sent an email to branch manager Marie Alvey requesting for her to contact you at her earliest convenience to address your concerns.

We appreciate your business and thank you for banking with Wells Fargo.

Sincerely,
Donna Germany
Wells Fargo
Online Customer Service

Citizen · Feb 6, 2009

imported post

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Just a couple quick thoughts for readers who might be in position to write their own bank or other business in the future.

1. I've never heard of a business that changed its policy because of an OCer's threat to take his business elsewhere. I recommend omitting the threat. Catch more flies with sugar, etc.

2. "Gun on hip" is a common derogation used in the press. I might suggest something along the lines of, "...in a secure holster on my belt." Or, "...discreetly secured in a tasteful holster on my belt." Whichever fits best and is not dishonest.

Also, always include any training and backround checking you have had, "I have passed the state mandated criminal backround check, and the required safety and legal training." (But stop there. Do not assert that you are probably cleaner than some of their tellers or security guards no matter how true it might be.

)

3. Be careful about using the word "lie." Its strong language. Fighting word. Substitute, where not inappropriate, not true, false, half-true, incorrect. And, then only if it is really necessary to the communication. Meaning leave out entirely any such comment unless it is essential to the communication.

4. Try to shy away fromsuggesting signage. We do not want numerous signs sprouting all over the place.

This can be especially difficult when you are asked or told in person that no guns are allowed. Your first impulse is to disclaim error, "I didn't know. There are no signs." Just omit signage from your response. For myself, I plan to just say something along the lines of, "Oh, my. I'm sorry. Since I've got everything, do you mind if I just pay for these items?" Heh, heh, heh. Of course, if he says yes, my complaint letter will include that he couldn't have been that concerned about his customers, or he would have refused to let me stay.

Vegassteve · Feb 7, 2009

imported post

Citizen wrote:

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Just a couple quick thoughts for readers who might be in position to write their own bank or other business in the future.

1. I've never heard of a business that changed its policy because of an OCer's threat to take his business elsewhere. I recommend omitting the threat. Catch more flies with sugar, etc.

Sorry but it is what I will do. I will take my money someplace else. And I have heard of a company that changed its ways. When we complained to BassPro they made sure that they conformed to our state law. I have ZERO problem telling someone why or how they lost me as a customer.

2. "Gun on hip" is a common derogation used in the press. I might suggest something along the lines of, "...in a secure holster on my belt." Or, "...discreetly secured in a tasteful holster on my belt." Whichever fits best and is not dishonest.

Also, always include any training and backround checking you have had, "I have passed the state mandated criminal backround check, and the required safety and legal training." (But stop there. Do not assert that you are probably cleaner than some of their tellers or security guards no matter how true it might be. )

Point taken. I did include my CCW in 2 states. That is as far as I am concerned enough for me to tell them.

3. Be careful about using the word "lie." Its strong language. Fighting word. Substitute, where not inappropriate, not true, false, half-true, incorrect. And, then only if it is really necessary to the communication. Meaning leave out entirely any such comment unless it is essential to the communication.

Sorry but when I said something to my parents that was not true they called it a lie. That is exactly what it was a lie. I have no need or time for not calling a spade a spade.

4. Try to shy away fromsuggesting signage. We do not want numerous signs sprouting all over the place.

This can be especially difficult when you are asked or told in person that no guns are allowed. Your first impulse is to disclaim error, "I didn't know. There are no signs." Just omit signage from your response. For myself, I plan to just say something along the lines of, "Oh, my. I'm sorry. Since I've got everything, do you mind if I just pay for these items?" Heh, heh, heh. Of course, if he says yes, my complaint letter will include that he couldn't have been that concerned about his customers, or he would have refused to let me stay.

Exactly what I will be telling the manager if they ever talk to me. I pointed out already that they waited until I had done what I needed before saying anything.

Vegassteve · Feb 9, 2009

imported post

Update

After just talking to Lisa Cooper the local Security director for Wells Fargo, she assured me that the employees in question were corrected on local and state and fed laws. That they understand the OC and CC is ok in the bank. She was very nice and understanding and we had a great chat. I will be visiting the branch on Wednesday to due some banking and have let the manager know that I would like to meet her and thank her for her time and understanding.

She did mention that Vegas over the last year or so has a string of bank holdups by a dapper bandit. I have not heard of this but will look into it.

calmp9 · Feb 11, 2009

imported post

Vegassteve wrote:

Below is a email exchange over the last 10 days with Wells Fargo. Keep in mind I have been in this branch 6 times in the last 12 months to get a 25 dollar M.O. to add firearms to my CCW. I have OC every time. Not a blip from anyone until last time. And what I did not include in my original letter was that as I entered the very 2 people, who later stopped me on the way out, helped me on the way in. They gave me the forms helped fill them out and then sent me to the teller. I had amy 1911 on my hip. Now if they were truly fearful then why did they allow me to go ahead and conduct my biz with them? I still have not been in contact with the branch manager several phone calls later. I have even asked if she is in and would meet with me. No response so far. I would not even go into the bank but for some reason they will not do a M.O. at the drive up. What you also do not see here are the emails and phone calls I made each day until I could get someone to respond.

Now some may say I maybe should have gone CC in the bank. I see the point and understand it. And at times I do CC for personal reasons. I do OC about 75% of the time. I am also starting to care more about my rights though and have made the choice to OC more. If people can march in the streets to protest things that are not in the Bill of Rights then I should be able to have my own small protest.

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
-----------------

I went to your branch on CHEYENNE & SHADY TIMBERS in Las Vegas today. I needed a 25 dollar money order. I was greeted at the door and pointed to the teller. Upon exit I was stopped by the lady named XXXXX at the door and one man XXXXXXX. As is perfectly legal here in Nevada I had a holstered pistol on my hip. I am a registered Conceal Carry Permit holder in Nevada and Utah. Although today I was not concealed as it is legal in this state to open carry. I was told that it was against federal law to carry a firearm into a bank. Knowing myself this was a lie I pressed for further info. She said no it wasn't a federal law just Wells Fargo policy. If that is the case then your banks need to be properly signed. If this is the case that you do not allow legal citizens to use your branches while we are legal to carry then I will transfer my money to a bank that does. I look forward to your response.

RESPONSE
-------------------

From: Wells Fargo Online
Posted At: January 28, 2009
Subject: Other questions or requests
Dear Steve W:

We are sorry that the service you received did not meet your expectations. We constantly strive to provide you with the highest level of customer service. I have forwarded the details of your experience to the branch management team and requested that they contact you

We appreciate your business and thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with us.

Sincerely,
Joaquin Lopez
Wells Fargo Online Customer Service

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
-----------------

From: Posted At: 12:28:31.000 01/28/2009
Posted To:
Subject:

Thank you for getting in touch with the branch manager. I would like to know what Wells Fargos corp policy is though.Please respond.

RESPONSE
-------------------

From: Wells Fargo Online
Posted At: February 5, 2009
Subject: Other questions or requests

Dear Steve W:

Thank you for your follow-up email regarding the incident that occurred at our Cheyenne and Shady Timbers branch in Las Vegas surrounding your firearm.

Wells Fargo does not have a companywide policy about customers bringing firearms onto our property, nor do we have signage to that effect. However, the management of any of our branch stores may elect not to allow this, at its discretion, if, for example, it feels that the presence of a firearm could make employees or other customers uncomfortable.

While a carry permit entitles the permit holder to carry a firearm in public (e.g., on a public street), it does not compel the owner or lessee of private premises (such as a private home or business) to allow firearms on their property.

Wells Fargo strives to protect and ensure the safety and comfort of our customers and team members. We hope you will understand the actions and policies of our branches in that spirit.

Thank you for banking with Wells Fargo.

Sincerely,
Donna J. Germany
Wells Fargo Online
Customer Service

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
-----------------

From:
Posted At: 10:02:24.000 02/05/2009
Posted To:
Subject:

Thanks for the reply. My issue is that I was being lied to by your employee. Who told me it was a Federal law. That is not true. I wish to have the branch manager contact me soI may talk to them about this. So far they have failed to be around when I have tried to get ahold of them.

Thanks.

Received
February 5, 2009

From
Customer Service

Dear Steve W:

I am writing regarding your recent inquiry. I have sent an email to branch manager Marie Alvey requesting for her to contact you at her earliest convenience to address your concerns.

We appreciate your business and thank you for banking with Wells Fargo.

Sincerely,
Donna Germany
Wells Fargo
Online Customer Service

You really didn't expect to get anywhere with these people, did you? It's the typical response that is normally given.

diesel556 · Feb 11, 2009

imported post

Vegassteve wrote:

Update

After just talking to Lisa Cooper the local Security director for Wells Fargo, she assured me that the employees in question were corrected on local and state and fed laws. That they understand the OC and CC is ok in the bank.

That's great to hear! Good job.

Vegassteve · Feb 11, 2009

imported post

calmp9 wrote:

You really didn't expect to get anywhere with these people, did you? It's the typical response that is normally given.

Yes I did expect to get an answer and I did. Typical or not I will go up the food chain to get some sort of answer in cases like this. It may not always be the answer I like but I will get a answer. I did with these folks, I did with Bass Pro as well.

calmp9 · Feb 11, 2009

imported post

Vegassteve wrote:

calmp9 wrote:

You really didn't expect to get anywhere with these people, did you? It's the typical response that is normally given.

Click to expand...

Yes I did expect to get an answer and I did. Typical or not I will go up the food chain to get some sort of answer in cases like this. It may not always be the answer I like but I will get a answer. I did with these folks, I did with Bass Pro as well.

I am glad you got one, don't get me wrong. I just know how these people are, that's all.

diesel556 · Feb 11, 2009

imported post

calmp9 wrote:

I am glad you got one, don't get me wrong. I just know how these people are, that's all.

I don't know what you're talking about. There is no elephant in the room. Don't look, maybe he'll go away!

Like that?

calmp9 · Feb 11, 2009

imported post

diesel556 wrote:

calmp9 wrote:

I am glad you got one, don't get me wrong. I just know how these people are, that's all.

Click to expand...

I don't know what you're talking about. There is no elephant in the room. Don't look, maybe he'll go away!

Like that?

I am referring to a response by Wells Fargo.

diesel556 · Feb 11, 2009

imported post

calmp9 wrote:

I am referring to a response by Wells Fargo.

You missed my point. I was agreeing with your statement that companies like Wells Fargo sometimes try to ignore a problem rather than respond to it (the elephant in the room).

nomad · Feb 12, 2009

imported post

I keep reading this and wonder what you learned in your CCW courses. If you want to OC then don't get a CCW because if you open carry you can be accused of brandishing and have your CCW taken away. I have CCW in three States and have had one in NV for almost 15 years. Every class I have taken stresses this.

Nomad

Gordie · Feb 12, 2009

imported post

nomad wrote:

I keep reading this and wonder what you learned in your CCW courses. If you want to OC then don't get a CCW because if you open carry you can be accused of brandishing and have your CCW taken away. I have CCW in three States and have had one in NV for almost 15 years. Every class I have taken stresses this.

Nomad

Every class you have taken is wrong. Why would an act that is legal without a permit be illegal once a permit is obtained?

Carrying in a holster is not brandishing.

Main Entry:
[suP]1[/suP]bran·dish

Pronunciation:
\ˈbran-dish\
Function:
transitive verb
Etymology:
Middle English braundisshen, from Anglo-French brandiss-, stem of brandir, from brant, braund sword, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English brand
Date:
14th century
1 : to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2 : to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner

If OC is brandishing, then every uniformed LEO is brandishing all day long.

Also, if you could,please citeany law that says OC=brandishing.

CowboyKen · Feb 12, 2009

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nomad wrote:

I keep reading this and wonder what you learned in your CCW courses. If you want to OC then don't get a CCW because if you open carry you can be accused of brandishing and have your CCW taken away. I have CCW in three States and have had one in NV for almost 15 years. Every class I have taken stresses this.

Nomad

You might also want to read the definition of "Drawing deadly weapon in threatening manner."

NRS 202.320 Drawing deadly weapon in threatening manner.

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Nrs/NRS-202.html#NRS202Sec320

1. Unless a greater penalty is providedinNRS 202.287, a person having, carrying or procuring from another person any dirk, dirk-knife, sword, sword cane, pistol, gun or other deadly weapon, who, in the presence of two or more persons, draws or exhibits any of such deadly weapons in a rude, angry or threatening manner not in necessary self-defense, or who in any manner unlawfully uses that weapon in any fight or quarrel, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

2. A sheriff, deputy sheriff, marshal, constable or other peace officer shall not be held to answer, under the provisions of subsection 1, for drawing or exhibiting any of the weapons mentioned therein while in the lawful discharge of his duties.

[1911 C&P § 174; RL § 6439; NCL § 10121]—(NRS A 1967, 486; 1989, 1240)

Carrying a gun in a holster does not meet that definition. Open carry is legal in Nevada and has nothing to do with having, or not having, a Permit to Carry a Concealed Firearm.

Ken

thefirststrike · Feb 12, 2009

imported post

I quit doing business with Wells Fargo also, but for different reasons. I can tell you with regards to Wells Fargo, theyDON'T care about YOUR business, and don't let them tell you they do. I had legitimate complaints about the poor customer service I received, butwhen Itried to address these complaints all I got was constant references to how angry I got about not receiving proper customer service and platitudes about how the regional manager will talk to the offending employees about providing proper customer service. But I NEVER got an apology for the way I was treated. Unless you are a very wealthy customer or a large company, they don't need your business enough to care how they treat you. So don't be surprised if they come back later and try to tell you that you can't OC.

I have yet to open carry in my current bank (credit union).The local branchis located inside a grocery store, and I OC'ed there but on a Sunday when the credit union was closed. I will be interested in seeing how mycredit unionreacts when I OC there.

Dave

Decoligny · Feb 12, 2009

imported post

I quit using Wells Fargo when someone got ahold of one of my checks and started draining my account.

I went in and closed the account. Wells Fargo said it would take 60 to 90 days to get the money back into my account due to the investigation process.

So, I started a new one with a different number. I funded it with money from a savings account from another bank.

Next hot check that hit Well Fargo on my old account got paid for with my new account.

I was steamed when I went in. I was told that it would take 60 to 90 days to get the money back into my NEW ACCOUNT.

I got loud. I said "I started a brand new account because my old account had been compromised. NOW YOU SCREW UP AND GIVE MY MONEY TO A THIEF. I AM STARTING TO THINK THE THIEF IS ONE OF YOUR EMPLOYEES.I WANT ALL MY MONEY BACK NOW."

Everyone in the Bank was looking at me. The manager finally came over and after a minute of two I demanded a cashiers check for the entire amount from both accounts. I got it.

I have never done business with them since.

wayneco · Feb 12, 2009

imported post

Wearing a holstered weapon openly is about the farthest thing from an act of brandishing than one could imagine, especially in states such as Nevada where open carry is the norm.

I might agree that if one were to carry concealed and then open your coat to show your weapon, if done in a threatening manner that this may be considered brandishing but the act of wearing it open and holstered on a belt in a matter-of-fact manner would never be considered brandishing unless it were done in conjunction with some other specific threat of use.

If one is threatening use in a defensive posture that would not be brandishing, either. Brandishing I believe to be an offensive act, not a defensive one. Please folks correct me if I have misspoken.

Citizen · Feb 12, 2009

imported post

wayneco wrote:

Wearing a holstered weapon openly is about the farthest thing from an act of brandishing than one could imagine, especially in states such as Nevada where open carry is the norm.

I might agree that if one were to carry concealed and then open your coat to show your weapon, if done in a threatening manner that this may be considered brandishing but the act of wearing it open and holstered on a belt in a matter-of-fact mannershould never be considered brandishing unless it were done in conjunction with some other specific threat of use.

If one is threatening use in a defensive posture that would not be brandishing, either. Brandishing I believe to be an offensive act, not a defensive one. Please folks correct me if I have misspoken.

There, fixed it for ya.

chrsjhnsn · Feb 18, 2009

imported post

I have been a WF customer for years, great place to do biz.
I've open carried in Reno branches and was treated just as nice as when I ccw.
Wells Fargo is a great company.

Wells Fargo may lose me and my money

Vegassteve

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Citizen

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Vegassteve

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calmp9

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diesel556

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calmp9

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nomad

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Gordie

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thefirststrike

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