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Thread: Gun Owner = No Knock Warrant

  1. #1
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    So...being a lawful gun owner (a search of public Md Court records revealed no criminal record on the homeowner - http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us...uiry-index.jsp) automatically equals justification for a no-knock warrant? Maryland residents cannot lawfully protect themselves while in public and it seems that lately, cannot protect themselves in their own home either? NOT a law enforcement bashing thread. Check my history on this site...I have never partaken in one of 'those' threads. But what the freaking hell is going on with this freaking State?! First the MAYOR of a town in PG County, then a man who simply purchased an amount of ammo for a handgun caliber that the police "did not have a record" of the man purchasing, and now this?

    Home invasions and burglaries are up in this area, so how the hell am I as an absolute law-abiding citizen supposed to know who is kicking down my freaking door? My first and foremost responsibility on this planet to protect and provide for my family...it seems the State believes this doesn't really fit into their bigger picture.

    As far as I know, in the State of Maryland, the only guns that are required to be “registered” are machine guns. All the guns on the Maryland “regulated firearms” list and all handguns require an application to be approved by the Maryland State Police before the gun may be turned over to the purchaser. These applications include the make/model/serial number of the gun. What happens to these applications once approved? Are they shredded? Are they kept for historical purposes? Is the information entered into a database? This info could easily be used to keep track of who has what without a “formal” registration process. So, unless this guy had a "machine gun" registered with the MSP, how did they know he had guns in his home?


    http://www.explorehoward.com/news/15341/home-raid-leads-complaint/

    After a Howard County police raid on his house three weeks ago, Mike Hasenei says he has a sprained wrist, a dead dog, a bullet hole in his bed and a 12-year-old daughter who is scared every time she hears a knock on the door.

    Hasenei, 39, of the 6600 block of Deep Run Parkway, Elkridge, said he was sleeping shortly after 9 p.m. Jan. 15 when a police tactical team kicked in the door to his house.

    He woke up and walked into his living room to find it swarming with officers, he said. When he asked what was going on, he was ordered to get on the ground, and when he asked again, he said, he was knocked to the ground and told he was under arrest.

    Police then searched his house, looking for items stolen from two marked police cars that were reported broken into on Jan. 14 in the Elkridge community of Mayfield, according to Hasenei, who said he works as a computer analyst at Marriott International.

    During the raid, Hasenei said, police shot his Australian cattle dog, in his bedroom.

    Earlier that night, police also raided the nearby house of his stepson, Michael Leon Smith Jr., and turned up nothing, Hasenei said.

    Police spokeswoman Sherry Llewellyn confirmed the raid on Hasenei's house, noting that police had a search warrant signed by a judge.

    Llewellyn would not confirm whether the raid was related to the items stolen from police vehicles on Jan. 14, citing an ongoing investigation.

    No one was arrested in the raid, she said, and no arrests have been made relating to the thefts from the police cars, which she said police are still investigating.

    Llewellyn confirmed the dog shooting, but said the dog charged police, forcing them to shoot it.

    Police suspected guns

    Llewellyn said police had reason to believe a gun was in the residence, which was why they did not knock.

    A copy of the warrant provided by Hasenei listed items to be seized, including a Sig Sauer Rifle and three ammunition magazines for the rifle, as well as a police gear bag, county police field procedures manual and guide, and more police-related items.

    Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house.

    "This often includes the use of the tactical team, which is specially trained to deal with potentially dangerous situations," she said.

    Llewellyn confirmed Hasenei filed a complaint about the incident with the Howard County Police Department and that police are investigating.

    She said no officers had been placed on any kind of administrative duty following the complaint.

    She declined to comment on whether any items were seized in the raid on Hasenei's house, citing an ongoing investigation.

    House damaged

    At Hasenei's house last week, the door to his daughter's room was off its hinges -- a result of the police raid, he said -- and Hasenei's hand was wrapped in a bandage because, he said, it was sprained when policed cuffed his hands too tightly.

    "They looked through everything," Hasenei said of the raid. "They didn't find a single thing. I knew they wouldn't because we don't commit crimes."

    What appeared to be a bullet hole was visible in a mattress in his bedroom, where, Hasenei said, police shot his dog, and a bloody sheet was stored in the front deck of his home.

    "They shot three times. Two hit the dog, one hit the bed," he said.

    When police raided his house, Hasenei said, they produced a search warrant relating to Hasenei's stepson. But Hasenei said Smith has not lived at the address for years.

    Smith, 20, also of Deep Run Parkway, said police also raided his house that night, but did not find anything. He said police also pushed him to the ground during the raid.

    "I stay in my house and keep to myself," Smith said.

    Smith said he does not have a driver's license.

    He said his state-issued identity card, however, lists his stepfather's address as his home.

    Llewellyn declined to comment on any raid on Smith's house, saying only that multiple warrants had been served that night.

    Hasenei said he has contacted a lawyer and plans to file a lawsuit. His lawyer did not return a call seeking comment.

    Police Chief William McMahon, through Llewellyn, declined to comment on the raid.


    AND: http://reason.com/blog/show/131514.html

    Police in Howard County, Maryland conducted a nighttime, no-knock raid on the home of Mike Hasenei, whom they apparently suspected of stealing items from two police cars burglarized last month. They found nothing, but they did shoot and kill Hasenei's Australian cattle dog. The police say the no-knock raid and tactical entry were necessary because Hasenei is a (legal) gun-owner.

    Police spokeswoman Sherry Llewellyn confirmed the raid on Hasenei's house, noting that police had a search warrant signed by a judge...

    Llewellyn confirmed the dog shooting, but said the dog charged police, forcing them to shoot it...

    Llewellyn said police had reason to believe a gun was in the residence, which was why they did not knock...

    Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house.

    "This often includes the use of the tactical team, which is specially trained to deal with potentially dangerous situations," she said.


    Sounds like they need more training.

    Hasenei, 39, of the 6600 block of Deep Run Parkway, Elkridge, said he was sleeping shortly after 9 p.m. Jan. 15 when a police tactical team kicked in the door to his house.

    He woke up and walked into his living room to find it swarming with officers, he said. When he asked what was going on, he was ordered to get on the ground, and when he asked again, he said, he was knocked to the ground and told he was under arrest.


    He wasn't arrested.

    So the police say they used a no-knock and a tactical team to secure the place quickly because they knew Hasenei was a gun owner. Yet Hasenei was able to get up from bed, walk out from his bedroom, and enter his living room before making his first contact with the tactical team. Which shows that all they really succeeded in doing was to provoke a potentially violent confrontation with a guy who at the moment looks to be innocent of any crime.

    It's a good thing he didn't grab one of his guns on his way out of the bedroom.

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    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    Because a resident of a targeted house owns a gun, they feel it's safest to kick in the door.

    So ludicrous because any targeted location could have armed people, legally or illegally. By their "logic", all search warrants should be no-knock.

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    frickin nuts

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    Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"?

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    old dog wrote:
    Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"?
    The citizens stand up for their rights.

    The JBTs oppress the citizens,

    the JBTsare labeled tyrants,

    and some patriot shoots them.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    old dog wrote:
    Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"?
    Oh, no. According to LEO229, to most police its just a job.

    Which might explain the lax attitude some have about rights. "Its just a policy in our job.Everybody breaks and bends policies at work all the time."



    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    old dog wrote:
    Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"?
    That's when things could get really ugly.

    I've been wondering about this myself. Do these LEA's not even consider the possibilty that the citizens might finally get fed up and conduct their own raid/assault against the LEA?

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    Citizen wrote:
    old dog wrote:
    Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"?
    Oh, no. According to LEO229, to most police its just a job.

    Which might explain the lax attitude some have about rights. "Its just a policy in our job.Everybody breaks and bends policies at work all the time."
    Using my name to bolster your posts?

    old dog,

    From my personal and first hand experience, the police do NOT relish or desire any hatred they acquire from the public for the job they have to do.

    It is inevitable and it will happen no matter what you do. Some people will hate you for a variety of reasons.

    Most cops do not take on the job for the sake of longing to be hated. They join for all the right reasons. There may to be a few that do it for less than honorable reasons and they normally do not last very long.

    What happens when people say "Enough!" ??

    I guess it depends on what is happening to them. If they are being attacked they fight back. If they are being mistreated I hope they make a complaint.

    I have known people to complain about getting a ticket and then admit to the violation! I guess they said "Enough!" in regards to getting stopped. :P

    But to answer the question, No. Most cops do not want to be hated. It is just a job for most and that means they are there to do what needs to be done and go home.

    You would have to be a real sadistic SOB to want people to hate you. :?

    The psych test normally weeds them out of the process. But not all departments give this test.

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    all those leos should be killed

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    ocman1991A1 wrote:
    all those leos should be killed
    Unintended Consequences?

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    old dog wrote:
    Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"?
    Oh, no. According to LEO229, to most police its just a job.

    Which might explain the lax attitude some have about rights. "Its just a policy in our job.Everybody breaks and bends policies at work all the time."
    SNIP Using my name to bolster your posts?
    Its called citing your source, folks. Social people do that when they can."So-and-so said," as opposed to some generality like "they said."

    But,givenhis history of refusing to cite sources, and occasional flat inability to cite, I can understandwhy it wouldn't occur tohim that someone might be doing that.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    ocman1991A1 wrote:
    all those leos should be killed
    +100

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    old dog wrote:
    Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"?
    Oh, no. According to LEO229, to most police its just a job.

    Which might explain the lax attitude some have about rights. "Its just a policy in our job.Everybody breaks and bends policies at work all the time."
    Using my name to bolster your posts?

    old dog,

    From my personal and first hand experience, the police do NOT relish or desire any hatred they acquire from the public for the job they have to do.
    No, they simply don't care about or respect our rights.

    It is inevitable and it will happen no matter what you do. Some people will hate you for a variety of reasons.

    Some people will not be happy no matter what, that is true--but there has been so many violent attacks, violent, unjustified attacks upon the citizens that I have to wonder if they are doing this just to "show the people who has the power"...

    Most cops do not take on the job for the sake of longing to be hated. They join for all the right reasons. There may to be a few that do it for less than honorable reasons and they normally do not last very long.

    I think a vast majority take it because of the power that they perceive--they put on a badge and a gun and they automatically get the idea that they can do as they please, to whomsoever they please with no consequences whatsoever.

    What happens when people say "Enough!" ??

    I guess it depends on what is happening to them. If they are being attacked they fight back. If they are being mistreated I hope they make a complaint.

    A vast majority of these departments--and I mean the entire department needs to be fired, investigated by the FBI and a good majority of the "officers" need to be in jail and in the general population, and the cities who employ them need bankrupted so that they can learn to not mistreat the people....but filing a complaint with the police? That is a waste of paper--because what one officer is going to find when they investigate another would be a response from the department along the lines of "why no citizen, that officer was perfectly within his authority when he broke down your door, shot up your house, assaulted you, and threatened your life and the lives of your family, and therefore there ain't sh** you can do about that, so go away now and have a wonderful day..."

    But to answer the question, No. Most cops do not want to be hated. It is just a job for most and that means they are there to do what needs to be done and go home.

    Many of them are on a severe power trip and need to be reigned in and put in jail. Many of them simply don't care about the people, or our rights under the Constitution. They view the people as all potential criminals, and as if we were their enemy.

    You would have to be a real sadistic SOB to want people to hate you. :?

    From what has been in the news lately--it would seem there are a lot of sadistic SOBs on the force then.


    The psych test normally weeds them out of the process. But not all departments give this test.

    I think there needs to be a psych eval at least once every 3 months, or sooner if you're involved in a shooting. Fail it once and you're on desk duty for 30 days, with no access to your service weapons, fail it again and you're fired, and your POST certification is automatically pulled.


    I simply think it is time that the people stood up and said enough, and absolutely demanded that our rights be respected, our person be respected, and that LE be reigned in and that their militaristic mentality be eliminated entirely and demand that the police stop acting like the military..because regardless of how much they might like to think they are--they ain't.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    echo6tango wrote:
    Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house.

    "This often includes the use of the tactical team, which is specially trained to deal with potentially dangerous situations," she said.

    In some communities in this country I would assume that every house has a firearm in it. Those 80,000,000 firearms that we own have to be stored somewhere.

    I suggest that every warrant be a no-knock warrant, can't be to safe ya know.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    echo6tango wrote:
    Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house.

    "This often includes the use of the tactical team, which is specially trained to deal with potentially dangerous situations," she said.

    In some communities in this country I would assume that every house has a firearm in it. Those 80,000,000 firearms that we own have to be stored somewhere.

    I suggest that every warrant be a no-knock warrant, can't be to safe ya know.
    I agree. The SCOTUS should immediately rule the same.

    Policing is just too dangerous. And there is no justification to makeour heroes in blue (or black as the case may be)take any risks at all. "Officer safety is paramount," as one of our LE forum members wrote once.

    These fine people need all the tools we can give them. If one is injured on the job, we are all injured. They represent us. We are the state, and they are the state.

    Plus, if all residential warrants were executed no-knock by SWAT, we could end these petty cries of abuse. And save ourselves the cost of increased insurance for the litigation that would be averted.

    And it needs to be codified that SWAT, during one of these no-knock raids, may shoot any dogs. Agressive or not. Just because a dog isn't attacking, doesn't mean it won't once the SWAT moves to apply hand-cuffs.

    (satire off)
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Venator wrote:
    echo6tango wrote:
    Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house.

    "This often includes the use of the tactical team, which is specially trained to deal with potentially dangerous situations," she said.

    In some communities in this country I would assume that every house has a firearm in it. Those 80,000,000 firearms that we own have to be stored somewhere.

    I suggest that every warrant be a no-knock warrant, can't be to safe ya know.
    I would submit that "no knock warrants" should be completely illegal. They should have to knock and wait a few seconds...

    I would further submit that swat/srt should also be disbanded in all departments across the country, local, state and federal--they are simply far too dangerous for use in the public and should be disbanded.....the military mentality should never be tolerated in law enforcement.

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    suntzu wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    echo6tango wrote:
    Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house.

    "This often includes the use of the tactical team, which is specially trained to deal with potentially dangerous situations," she said.

    In some communities in this country I would assume that every house has a firearm in it. Those 80,000,000 firearms that we own have to be stored somewhere.

    I suggest that every warrant be a no-knock warrant, can't be to safe ya know.

    I would submit that "no knock warrants" should be completely illegal. They should have to knock and wait a few seconds...

    I would further submit that swat/srt should also be disbanded in all departments across the country, local, state and federal....the military mentality should never be tolerated in law enforcement.
    SunTzu,

    No offense, but it would help read ability if you put your text below the quoted material rather than within it.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    suntzu wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    echo6tango wrote:
    Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house.

    "This often includes the use of the tactical team, which is specially trained to deal with potentially dangerous situations," she said.

    In some communities in this country I would assume that every house has a firearm in it. Those 80,000,000 firearms that we own have to be stored somewhere.

    I suggest that every warrant be a no-knock warrant, can't be to safe ya know.

    I would submit that "no knock warrants" should be completely illegal. They should have to knock and wait a few seconds...

    I would further submit that swat/srt should also be disbanded in all departments across the country, local, state and federal....the military mentality should never be tolerated in law enforcement.
    SunTzu,

    No offense, but it would help read ability if you put your text below the quoted material rather than within it.
    how's that?

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    old dog wrote:
    Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"?
    Oh, no. According to LEO229, to most police its just a job.

    Which might explain the lax attitude some have about rights. "Its just a policy in our job.Everybody breaks and bends policies at work all the time."
    Using my name to bolster your posts?

    old dog,

    From my personal and first hand experience, the police do NOT relish or desire any hatred they acquire from the public for the job they have to do.

    It is inevitable and it will happen no matter what you do. Some people will hate you for a variety of reasons.

    Most cops do not take on the job for the sake of longing to be hated. They join for all the right reasons. There may to be a few that do it for less than honorable reasons and they normally do not last very long.

    What happens when people say "Enough!" ??

    I guess it depends on what is happening to them. If they are being attacked they fight back. If they are being mistreated I hope they make a complaint.

    I have known people to complain about getting a ticket and then admit to the violation! I guess they said "Enough!" in regards to getting stopped. :P

    But to answer the question, No. Most cops do not want to be hated. It is just a job for most and that means they are there to do what needs to be done and go home.

    You would have to be a real sadistic SOB to want people to hate you. :?

    The psych test normally weeds them out of the process. But not all departments give this test.
    SO how many innocent people do they get to rough up and innocent dogs do they get to shoot before we earn the right to call them "jack booted thugs"?

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    This seriously scares the crap out of me...

    I have no kids. If someone kicks in my door while I'm in bed my immediate reaction is going to be to take up a defensive position in my bedroom with my wife and my shotgun and pistol, with the intent of protecting my wife any myself.

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    If i am not mistaken didn't the Iraq military under there commander and chief do the same thing in the name of state security ?And anybody that resisted were shot (sound familiar) dogs, men, women, children,

    Hitler and all the others have done the same thing , of stomping on your human rights in the name of )(*&(*^(&%&TOIHIUHG, or security


    Let me add this one thought to all law enforcement officers, what would you do if in the middle of the night, a bunch of military men with full auto's kicked your doors in yelling delta force, or UN security, or militia patrol?????Don't think it will happen, just keep up the B & E into peoples homes under the color of law !!!!!!!!!!

    It's time for the judges to be more careful about signing those warrents

    If you want someone, wait like a cat and catch them out in the open, not on there turf.....


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    mastiff69 wrote:
    If i am not mistaken didn't the Iraq military under there commander and chief do the same thing in the name of state security ?And anybody that resisted were shot (sound familiar) dogs, men, women, children,

    Hitler and all the others have done the same thing , of stomping on your human rights in the name of )(*&(*^(&%&TOIHIUHG, or security


    Let me add this one thought to all law enforcement officers, what would you do if in the middle of the night, a bunch of military men with full auto's kicked your doors in yelling delta force, or UN security, or militia patrol?????Don't think it will happen, just keep up the B & E into peoples homes under the color of law !!!!!!!!!!

    It's time for the judges to be more careful about signing those warrents

    If you want someone, wait like a cat and catch them out in the open, not on there turf.....
    I'm a little surprised that the new liberal administration isn't all over this breach of constitutional rights. They arent big on the 2nd, but are on the other amendments.

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    jegoodin wrote:
    I'm a little surprised that the new liberal administration isn't all over this breach of constitutional rights. They arent big on the 2nd, but are on the other amendments.
    Liberals always herald in the destruction of personal rights.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  24. #24
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    Thundar wrote:
    jegoodin wrote:
    I'm a little surprised that the new liberal administration isn't all over this breach of constitutional rights. They arent big on the 2nd, but are on the other amendments.
    Liberals always herald in the destruction of personal rights.
    unless of course it is their rights which are destroyed--then they cry and whine and blubber on the nightly news...

  25. #25
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    jegoodin wrote:
    mastiff69 wrote:
    If i am not mistaken didn't the Iraq military under there commander and chief do the same thing in the name of state security ?And anybody that resisted were shot (sound familiar) dogs, men, women, children,

    Hitler and all the others have done the same thing , of stomping on your human rights in the name of )(*&(*^(&%&TOIHIUHG, or security


    Let me add this one thought to all law enforcement officers, what would you do if in the middle of the night, a bunch of military men with full auto's kicked your doors in yelling delta force, or UN security, or militia patrol?????Don't think it will happen, just keep up the B & E into peoples homes under the color of law !!!!!!!!!!

    It's time for the judges to be more careful about signing those warrents

    If you want someone, wait like a cat and catch them out in the open, not on there turf.....
    I'm a little surprised that the new liberal administration isn't all over this breach of constitutional rights. They arent big on the 2nd, but are on the other amendments.
    Proof of this statement? Because since the new admin has come to power I have heard the atty. general call us a nation of cowards, and cry out for a new semi-auto ban, as I won't degrade a semi-auto AK47 by calling it an "assault weapon" which it isn't and in the process they are selling out the Constitution and our rights to please the Mexican government(or at least that is the lie they are telling us)...remember, this admin called not only called for a re-write of the Constitution during the campaign, but also called for an "internal security force that is just as well funded, and just as well trained and equipped as the military"--can you say KGB comrade? The ultimate goal of this admin I believe is to make us into a French style socialistic society, or perhaps into a Chinese communistic type society--I just have not yet come to the conclusion of which will be worse....

    Since this admin has come to power I have seen absolutely NO evidence whatsoever to back up your assertion that they care about our Constitutional Rights--although I do see them chomping at the bits to destroy our rights and the Constitution....

    So please--do you have proof? Because I would love to see how they care about our rights.

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