Hello all. Anyone from Folsom?

imported post

Hello. So I'm going to Nevada this weekend to get my concealed weapons permit. I don't find myself in Nevada more than twice a year so this was only to exercise my rights under the 2nd amendment.

That was until 10 minutes ago when I thought I'd jump into the California Forum. I had no idea it was legal to open carry an unloaded firearm. I know this thread is watched by LEO's and it seems their attention has been grabbed and now realize what I just found out 10 minutes ago as well.

First of all, any of you who have gone out and OC'ed have major balls, and I personally thank you for risking yourself to public humiliation, being arrested or even being shot by a mis-informed LEO or security gaurd to make other's aware of your rights and take away this shock people have when law-abiding citizens want to protect themselves.

I mean I am the type of person where if I feel my rights are being stepped on, I will go out and do as much as I can to make everyone aware. This was my primary reason for going to Nevada this weekend and spending a lot of money for class and application for my CCW there.

Just one question- I have read most of the law but what I'd like to know is it illegal to drive by a school with a holstered gun? I mean if not, I will have to bring out google maps and look up every school in my area to avoid.

Any groups in Sacramento meet up?

Also, I have read the law though am still unsure whether this holster would fall within the law. Can this magazine be so close to the gun? Does the magazine fully pushed in the pocket constitute it as being concealed?

Also, I sometimes wear jeans that dont require a belt, can I attach my holster to my pants instead? The law says

(f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section

So I should probably play it safe and wear a belt at all times I am assuming unless anyone else does not?

imported post

Just one question- I have read most of the law but what I'd like to know is it illegal to drive by a school with a holstered gun? I mean if not, I will have to bring out google maps and look up every school in my area to avoid.

Click to expand...

Nope, if you drive by a school, as long as you are 1000 feet of a school you have to have your gun in a locked container ( ie gun case $10-20 at wally world or the case your gun came in) I use one I bought and just have a regular key lock on it and I have the key right next to it.

Also, I have read the law though am still unsure whether this holster would fall within the law. Can this magazine be so close to the gun? Does the magazine fully pushed in the pocket constitute it as being concealed?

Click to expand...

I am not sure about this one sorry. I usually have mine in a paddle holster fully exposed. I belive as long as the magazine is not in the magwell ready to chamber a round you should be good, but that gets really close to what is and isn't ok.

Also, I sometimes wear jeans that dont require a belt, can I attach my holster to my pants instead? The law says

(f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section

Click to expand...

As for this, I wear a paddle holster that doesn't even connect to my belt, when I got stopped it was fine. I belive it is any holster that is not concealed.



NOW NON OF THIS IS LEGAL ADVICE, THESE ARE JUST MY OPINIONS THE WAY I OC, I AM SURE THERE WILL BE OTHERS ON THIS BOARD THAT WILL GIVE BETTER EXAMPLES OR LINK/STATE THE PENAL CODES TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS. ALSO IF YOU HAVE NOT YET, LOOK HERE: http://www.californiaopencarry.org/

imported post

wow thats wierd... i just moved out of folsom and i used to ride an r6 when i lived there:shock:

imported post

Streetbikerr6 wrote:

Hello. So I'm going to Nevada this weekend to get my concealed weapons permit. I don't find myself in Nevada more than twice a year so this was only to exercise my rights under the 2nd amendment.

That was until 10 minutes ago when I thought I'd jump into the California Forum. I had no idea it was legal to open carry an unloaded firearm. I know this thread is watched by LEO's and it seems their attention has been grabbed and now realize what I just found out 10 minutes ago as well.

First of all, any of you who have gone out and OC'ed have major balls, and I personally thank you for risking yourself to public humiliation, being arrested or even being shot by a mis-informed LEO or security gaurd to make other's aware of your rights and take away this shock people have when law-abiding citizens want to protect themselves.

I mean I am the type of person where if I feel my rights are being stepped on, I will go out and do as much as I can to make everyone aware. This was my primary reason for going to Nevada this weekend and spending a lot of money for class and application for my CCW there.

Just one question- I have read most of the law but what I'd like to know is it illegal to drive by a school with a holstered gun? I mean if not, I will have to bring out google maps and look up every school in my area to avoid.

Any groups in Sacramento meet up?

Also, I have read the law though am still unsure whether this holster would fall within the law. Can this magazine be so close to the gun? Does the magazine fully pushed in the pocket constitute it as being concealed?

Also, I sometimes wear jeans that dont require a belt, can I attach my holster to my pants instead? The law says

(f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section

So I should probably play it safe and wear a belt at all times I am assuming unless anyone else does not?

Click to expand...

I don't find myself in Nevada more than twice a year so this was only to exercise my rights under the 2nd amendment.

A Nevada CCW wouldnt allow you to carry concealed here- just in Nevada and those States in which Nevada has reciprocity. And if Imight point out, a piece of paper, no matter what is written on it, cannot bestow rights upon you. In fact, if you want to get really technical, a license or permit is evidence of a tax paid and the existance of an agreement by the holder to abide by limitations imposed- however arbitrary.

Any groups in Sacramento meet up?


There are members in the Sacramento area- And there has been a open carry dinner in Sacramento last April. Members came from points state wide.

Can this magazine be so close to the gun?

Yes. It is not attached tothe firearm in a position to be fired.

Does the magazine fully pushed in the pocket constitute it as being concealed?


The top of the magazine would be visiable even with it completely pushed in.As long as the magazine isnt in your pocket, I believe you would be fine.

can I attach my holster to my pants instead?

Yes. I think that provided the holster is secure and not concealed, it would be lawful to carry in other methods besides ona belt.

So I should probably play it safe and wear a belt at all times I am assuming unless anyone else does not?

I would wear a belt. I havent heard of anyone using a shoulder rig or a tactical thigh holster- but this is a personal choice.



These are only my opinions and do not constitute legal advice. I am not an attorney.

imported post

Thanks for the info. Yah I know Nevada CCW isnt valid in California, but because I couldnt have a gun in California I wanted to atleast be able to CCW in Nevada for Casino trips.

My holster is so big to where only the grip of the gun is sticking out, do you think they could declare this concealed?

imported post

Streetbikerr6 wrote:

...

First of all, any of you who have gone out and OC'ed have major balls, and I personally thank you for risking yourself to public humiliation, being arrested or even being shot by a mis-informed LEO or security gaurd to make other's aware of your rights and take away this shock people have when law-abiding citizens want to protect themselves.

...

Click to expand...

You're welcome. I agree that it takes some courage to take the risks involved with OC.

However, I disagree that there is much risk of an misinformed LEO or guard shooting someone for OC. A very un-scientific research project performed by members of the OC movement across the US have found that most times the cops don't even pull their guns. This is a common myth - one perpetuated mostly by LE.

Now, some of us (myself included) have been detained at gun point. However, these instances seem to be the exception, not the rule.

imported post

Welcome to the forum and welcome to OC.

Not that I am normally someone to call someone else out, but a .22?

Maybe I am seeing it wrong. . . And I know that they can be effective...Maybe it is just me.

I commend your wanting to OC and think that any gun is a gun to OC with...I guess I am not one to talk...I used to OC with a FEG PA-63! Haha!!

imported post

Yah its the only handgun I own right now, I only own a remington 12 gauge and mini 14 target and that. But I'll be buying a .32 keltec soon just for my CCW I just applied for today in Nevada. I use the 22 for plinking though in grass valley and stuff. after the keltec ill get a taurus 1911

imported post

I am sorry. I wasn't trying to insult you or anything. . . I was merely concerned for your safety.

And I think I did see here posted that Nevada CCW does not entitle you to CC here in California. . . Just remember that.

imported post

Yup yup. Ive been talking to people at gun stores and making them aware OC is legal here. They say... dont do it. I say, well its either the sheriff gives me a CCW or I OC, I have no choice.

imported post

I'm in Folsom. Just joined

imported post

Well welcome to the forum! If you have any questions, please refer to californiaopencarry.org. If you cannot find the answer you are looking for, feel free to post a thread with your question and we will all do our best to point you in the right direction!

imported post

Wow, a lot of new members joining in the last few days. Nice!
Welcome everyone!:monkey

imported post

Streetbikerr6 wrote:

Hello. So I'm going to Nevada this weekend to get my concealed weapons permit. I don't find myself in Nevada more than twice a year so this was only to exercise my rights under the 2nd amendment.

That was until 10 minutes ago when I thought I'd jump into the California Forum. I had no idea it was legal to open carry an unloaded firearm. I know this thread is watched by LEO's and it seems their attention has been grabbed and now realize what I just found out 10 minutes ago as well.

First of all, any of you who have gone out and OC'ed have major balls, and I personally thank you for risking yourself to public humiliation, being arrested or even being shot by a mis-informed LEO or security gaurd to make other's aware of your rights and take away this shock people have when law-abiding citizens want to protect themselves.

I mean I am the type of person where if I feel my rights are being stepped on, I will go out and do as much as I can to make everyone aware. This was my primary reason for going to Nevada this weekend and spending a lot of money for class and application for my CCW there.

Just one question- I have read most of the law but what I'd like to know is it illegal to drive by a school with a holstered gun? I mean if not, I will have to bring out google maps and look up every school in my area to avoid.

Any groups in Sacramento meet up?

Also, I have read the law though am still unsure whether this holster would fall within the law. Can this magazine be so close to the gun? Does the magazine fully pushed in the pocket constitute it as being concealed?

Also, I sometimes wear jeans that dont require a belt, can I attach my holster to my pants instead? The law says

(f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section

So I should probably play it safe and wear a belt at all times I am assuming unless anyone else does not?

Click to expand...

first off, welcome to the forums...

here are some answers to your question that I have experienced while OCing.

To answer about whether or not to carry a magazine in the gun itself, it is legal to do so. I have attached a picture of me that was taken during our San Diego Open Carry Meet a few weeks ago. You will note in the picture that I am carrying a magazine in the weapon itself. The reason I do this, is that it completes the gun as the magazine is the "essential component" of the weapon.

Here is the language on that:

"While there is no code that supports this, there was an appellate case in 1974, People v. Hale, that ruled this way. It ruled that although the firearm in question was not concealed, the magazine was, and that only partial concealment is still concealment, and that the magazine was an "essential component" of the firearm. The logic is tortured beyond belief, but it's currently case law. One way to avoid this pitfall is to carry your magazines in belt holsters, so that they match the 12025(f) language of "carried openly in belt holsters". Another option would be to keep an unloaded magazine in the firearm, thereby "completing" the firearm, and invalidating the asinine "essential component" logic".

Although my magazine is in the gun, it is NOT loaded with any ammunition whatsoever. You cant see in the picture, but my mag pouch is on my left hip. If you're worried about whether you can carry ammunition closely to the weapon itself, legally you can. If your mag pouch holder is literally right next to the weapon, it is legal to do so.

Here is the language on that:

Subdivision (g) of §12031 provides that:
A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge
or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to,
the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm;
except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder. (Emphasis added)

While Penal Code §12025 addresses carrying a concealed firearm, subdivision (f) of that statute expressly declares
that “Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section.”
Here, the situation presented is of an adult person carrying an unloaded firearm in plain view in public. While
there is close at hand ammunition for said firearm, the ammunition is we are told not attached to the firearm.
Even if the ammunition was, for instance, taped to the firearm, it is questionable whether this would constitute
“loading” of the firearm in light of the holding in People v. Clark, (1996) 45 Cal. App. 4th 1147, 1152, where the
court of appeal, dealing with the question of whether the defendant had committed the offense of possession
of methamphetamine while armed with a loaded, operable firearm, held that:

Under the commonly understood meaning of the term “loaded,” a firearm is “loaded” when a shell or cartridge
has been placed into a position from which it can be fired; the shotgun is not “loaded” if the shell or cartridge
is stored elsewhere and not yet placed in a firing position. The shells here were placed in a separate storage
compartment of the shotgun and were not yet “loaded” as the term is commonly understood. Even if Pen. Code,
§ 12031, subd. (g), was applicable, the Legislature’s use of the phrase “attached in any manner” to the firearm
was intended to encompass a situation where a shell or cartridge might be attached to a firearm or “loaded” for
firing by some unconventional method. And, to the extent an ambiguity existed, the construction more favorable
to defendant should be adopted.

Anomalous as it may seem in this day and age, it is not, for the reasons aforesaid, unlawful for an adult who is
not otherwise legally disabled from possession of a firearm to carry an unloaded firearm in plain view in public
in an incorporated city. And the firearm does not become “loaded” for purposes of a violation of §12031 if there
is a loaded magazine or other carry of ammunition close at hand".

When I was arrested by the local PD here, he had told me that "carrying ammunition on the belt is the same as the gun being loaded". His exact words. WRONG...he did not know this was legal and I tried to tell him so. He even refused to look at the case law of that said statement.

So to answer that question, your mag pouch sitting on your belt next to your weapon is legal according to the above mentioned. Your mags are "stored" in another pouch, NOT attached in any manner to the firearm itself. Hope that helps.

I would personally carry a holster attached to the belt, through belt loops or what have you instead of just attached to your pants. This way, it cant be ripped off your pants so easily should someone wanna try and do it. Its your preference, go with what you're most comfortable with.

One more thing, if you're gonna go out and OC, get a digital recorder so you can record what happens should you have a run in with a LEO. My first encounter with LE, I was arrested and had it on recording. But dont let that discourage you from OCing.

Take a look at the picture and you'll see how I OC my weapon. Have fun with it, its your right to do so, but dont go out there "lawsuit shopping". Study up on the laws and take someone with you if you aren't too sure of it. Let us know what happens.....

I am not a lawyer and this advice does not constitute as "legal" advice. It is just merely answers to your questions, nothing more, nothing less.