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Unintended Consequences, illegal orders

SouthernBoy

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Yesterday morning, I finally had a moment (and the nerve) to ask a military man a question I have been wanting to pose. The company for which I work is a major government and defense contractor and therefore, frequently has visitors in the building for seminars, classes, training, etc. Many times, these visitors are members of the military. I have been itching for many months to pose a question to one of these people and finally yesterday, the chance presented itself.

The first thing I did was thank the gentleman for his service to our country. I did this for several reasons. I meant it, I wanted to set his mind at ease, and I wanted to let him see from where I was coming. Then I asked him this. (not exact quotes).

"Suppose the military received orders from the executive office to begin the process of confiscating privately owned firearms. Knowing this would be an illegal order, would they obey this order?"

He answered by saying "no", that he imagined most would not because they took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. I commented that one of the reasons I felt they would not is because the military personnel would also know that this action would be taking place in their own home towns against family and friends and that some would not submit without a fight. He acknowledged this and said that it would also be a violation of the Posse Comitatus act and would also violate a lot of other laws.

So there you have it. I'm going to do this again when the opportunity arises just to see what others might have to say.
 

r6-rider

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its not the military you need to worry about. its the privatized military obama wants to create that id have trouble trusting. thankfully that probly wont ever happen though
 

codename_47

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Dude, first of all lots of people in the military own guns privately. An order as such would likely never be followed by the soldiers or officers.

The police are the people you need to worry about the most
 

r6-rider

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nah most police arent that bad. i know it happened in NO and i dont know what they were thinking but this discussion has come up alot over the last few months and most all LEOs say they would not partake in such an unconstitutional act
 

SouthernBoy

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It's not that I am worried about this happening, though there is the possibility under the current administration. My intent was to get the opinion of military personnel about this. That's really it.

If it were actually to happen, I suspect we would see the National Guard and policing agencies involved. Maybe it would be interesting to approach a police officer with the same question.
 

r6-rider

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well, im National Guard and i can tell you that my unit and I would never go around taking peoples guns. Im infantry but I know alot of MPs and they all said the same thing, it would be incredibly stupid to try and take a gun from someone, thats just asking to be shot
 

r6-rider

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Yea try asking the LEOs, the ones iv talked to were all cool about it but their are always the guys that have a more "the laws the law" mentality with this kind of stuff. Either way the Guard is pretty laid back unless its actually a crucial situation (ie flood, riot, terrorists) but again we are citizen soldiers, we would be more then happy to have armed citzens next to us
 

PT111

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SouthernBoy wrote:
"Suppose the military received orders from the executive office to begin the process of confiscating privately owned firearms. Knowing this would be an illegal order, would they obey this order?"

Now this is a loaded question if there ever was one. First of all who is to say that it is an illegal order. In your opinion it is illegal but not necessarily in the eyes of the Army, Commander in Chief, courts or legislature. What you have asked if is in his opinion he was ordered to perform an illegal orrder would he. There is a lot of difference between an illegal order and one you don't agree with and if you are in the military you bettere know the difference if you refuse.

If ordered to assinate a foreign leader would you do it? As the old joke goes about the four men applying for the job of assassin for the CIA. Each was handed a loaded gun, sent into a room with their wivesand told to killher. The first three came out and said they couldn't do it. The fourth went in and there was all kinds of loud noises and screams until he finally came out. They asked what happened and he said "Well the gun you gave me was loaded with blanks so I had to beat her to death with the chair".
 

XD-GEM

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r6-rider wrote:
nah most police arent that bad. i know it happened in NO and i dont know what they were thinking but this discussion has come up alot over the last few months and most all LEOs say they would not partake in such an unconstitutional act

I lived through it in New Orleans. Many of the LEOs incorrectly thought they WERE operating within the law while confiscating. Given a serious enough event, you can expect the LEOs in your area to confiscate without any thought of it being illegal.

The time to clarify it is NOW, BEFORE there's an emergency. Public hearings and information sessions between citizens and LEOs are crucial to all sides being on the same page when a SHTF situation eventually rolls around in your area.
 

r6-rider

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are there any statistics on how many officers were killed trying to take citizens guns?
 

Michigander

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codename_47 wrote:
The police are the people you need to worry about the most

I know a treaty was signed with Canada's armed forces to help fight civil unrest in the US, and I've heard people say the same of Mexico, but I've never seen proof. This is the sort of thing worth being concerned about. Especially when you hear Obama and Rahm openly admitting they want their youth brigades established.
 

Tomahawk

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Michigander wrote:
codename_47 wrote:
The police are the people you need to worry about the most

I know a treaty was signed with Canada's armed forces to help fight civil unrest in the US, and I've heard people say the same of Mexico, but I've never seen proof. This is the sort of thing worth being concerned about. Especially when you hear Obama and Rahm openly admitting they want their youth brigades established.

This one?

http://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/ViewTreaty.asp?Treaty_ID=103615
 

Sonora Rebel

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I know I'll never see it this far south... but if some Canuck comes a'knockin' for my guns... The war starts here. :X
 

canadian

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Sonora Rebel wrote:
I know I'll never see it this far south... but if some Canuck comes a'knockin' for my guns... The war starts here. :X
What if we call first, and offer money? ;)
 

Citizen

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Sonora Rebel wrote:
How much ya got? :)

Well, so much for patriotism.



Some men worship rank, some worship heroes, some worship power, some worship God, & over these ideals they dispute & cannot unite--but they all worship money.
- Mark Twain's Notebook
:)
 

Citizen

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canadian wrote:
Sonora Rebel wrote:
I know I'll never see it this far south... but if some Canuck comes a'knockin' for my guns... The war starts here. :X
What if we call first, and offer money? ;)

No deal.

Your central bank will make your money as worthless as ours will our own.

(That ought to slow up the Arizona sell-out. :))
 
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