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Thread: OC at someones house you'v never met?

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    Today My Friend who has a small business he runs out of his home, had a customer show up to his house, who he had never met before until today when he showed up at his house, for his appointment... Now the new customer of his happened to be OCing...... My Friend Is married has 3 kids that live at his home and my Friend was quite surprised to see this guy just show up on his door step with a gun on his hip.. and he was quite concerned as to Why a person would show up at his house with a loaded handgun.. Now my question is.. Would you or have you ever done this or what's your opinion on it? I this this Was really innapproiate, and not smart For this kid to do..I just think this gives OCer's a bad rep.. Cause it just makes it seem like we can carry where ever.. I oc but i think we all think about where were gonna oc befor we do it and think about weither its a good place to oc or conceal.. and plus it pissed my friend off pretty bad.. Do u think he had a good reason to be upset?



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    Glockguy wrote:
    SNIP Do u think he had a good reason to be upset?
    Of course, he did. To say otherwise is give thought control a foothold.

    But, the OCer wasn't responsible for his anger.

    Your friend either respects the rights of others or he doesn't. In this case, on this particular right, I'd say he doesn't.

    Perhaps you can gently educate your friend on the importance of respecting rights, especially enumerated rights. Rights aren't just a good idea, or something to trot out on the 4th of July. Rights are absolutely vital.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Glockguy wrote:
    SNIP Do u think he had a good reason to be upset?
    Of course, he did. To say otherwise is give thought control a foothold.

    But, the OCer wasn't responsible for his anger.

    Your friend either respects the rights of others or he doesn't. In this case, on this particular right, I'd say he doesn't.

    Perhaps you can gently educate your friend on the importance of respecting rights, especially enumerated rights. Rights aren't just a good idea, or something to trot out on the 4th of July. Rights are absolutely vital.



    No no no... He has got nothing aginst Peoples Right or the laws... Its About Respect, i agree, but as Ocers we to need to respect other to. just cause we think and know we have a right to Oc doesnt mean that we can just walk up to someones house we'v never been to and expect them to be ok with it.. Its HIS house. Not a place like walmat Safeway or watever... Its about respect and thought. If that were my house i would of told him to cover his gun.

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    Glockguy wrote:
    Today My Friend who has a small business he runs out of his home, had a customer show up to his house, ... Do u think he had a good reason to be upset?
    "Business" and "customer" are key factors here. Would it have been okay for this "customer" to walk into Fred Meyer wearing his sidearm? If so it was just as okay for him to walk into your friend's business. The fact that your friend has chosen to run that business out of his home is HIS problem, not his customers'.

    -adamsesq

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    Glockguy wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Glockguy wrote:
    SNIP Do u think he had a good reason to be upset?
    Of course, he did. To say otherwise is give thought control a foothold.

    But, the OCer wasn't responsible for his anger.

    Your friend either respects the rights of others or he doesn't. In this case, on this particular right, I'd say he doesn't.

    Perhaps you can gently educate your friend on the importance of respecting rights, especially enumerated rights. Rights aren't just a good idea, or something to trot out on the 4th of July. Rights are absolutely vital.



    No no no... He has got nothing aginst Peoples Right or the laws... Its About Respect, i agree, but as Ocers we to need to respect other to. just cause we think and know we have a right to Oc doesnt mean that we can just walk up to someones house we'v never been to and expect them to be ok with it.. Its HIS house. Not a place like walmat Safeway or watever... Its about respect and thought. If that were my house i would of told him to cover his gun.
    (Hmmmmmm. I didn't write that. Are you in league with Grapeshot, another forum member,by any chance? )

    I would like to gentlyprescribe a personal review of the concept ofrights for yourself before you tackle your friend.

    I'll start off by suggesting a fewquestions to answer for yourself.

    What is a right?

    How do the rights of one person affect the rights of another?

    Is it possible for both parties to be right in theOP encounter?

    Is it possible to genuinely respect the rights of another, yet be offended by the exercise?From another angle,are genuine respect andbeing offended mutually exclusive?

    Where would the line bedrawn between the rights of the carrier and the rights of the property owner? Can this line be drawn without disrespect?

    --end of questions

    To look at it from another angle,under the system you seem to be advocating for evaluatingrights, I could legitimately be offended ifyou or your friend showed up at my house as dinner guestsnot visibly armed.In a manner of speaking, how dare you expect me totake responsibility for your security. I'lldo everything I can to make sure youhave a pleasant evening, but if you won't take responsibility for your personal security, don't expect me to risk my life doing itforyou.

    There is a nice essay on this, Nation ofCowards (use google.)But, don't getfocused on the morality angle for this discussion. I'm highlighting'taking offense' in relation to exercising rights.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    If what you say is true and your friend does believe in rights then no, he doesn't have a good reason to be upset.

    Thats like a white father saying to his white daughter he has nothing against black people and then getting upset when she shows up for dinner with a black guy as her date.

    As for your quote:
    Cause it just makes it seem like we can carry where ever
    I do carry wherever that is not expressly prohibited by law. If your friend doesn't like it then he should do what anti gun managers from other stores do and ask the customer not to return with the gun. If it was me, I would thank your friend for his time and then take my money elsewhere.

    I agree with Adam, if your friend runs a business out of his home, his home is now his storefront and should be treated as such. Why should his customer, spending his own hard earned money, compromise with forgoing his rights because your friend has a problem? Your friend reserves the right to ask the customer to take his money elsewhere but it doesnt seem like he did that. It seems like he took the guys money and decided to bitch about it to you. Seems like everyone wins.

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    I think a person has a right to delegate what is allowed in their own house whether they are running a business out of their house or not. The fact that a person is carrying a gun does not mean they are an upstanding citizen who poses no harm to one's family. I cannot criticize this person for being concerned of someone showing up on his doorstep carrying a weapon. On the other hand he is running a business out of his house and just the fact that he is inviting strangers into his residence denotes a chance of danger whether they are carrying a gun or not.

    I would be less concerned with someone who was open carrying for it shows a willingness to be open to their choice. Obviously the person was invited as a customer, so they had a reason for being at the mans house.

    With all this taken into account, I don't believe there was any reason to be angry at the customer, but he had every right to ask the person to not carry in his house.

    The customer has every right to open carry where he or she is invited into personal property or business unless told otherwise.

    We cannot expect people to uphold our right to carry, if we fail to support their right to govern their private property.

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    Glockguy wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Glockguy wrote:
    SNIP Do u think he had a good reason to be upset?
    Of course, he did. To say otherwise is give thought control a foothold.

    But, the OCer wasn't responsible for his anger.

    Your friend either respects the rights of others or he doesn't. In this case, on this particular right, I'd say he doesn't.

    Perhaps you can gently educate your friend on the importance of respecting rights, especially enumerated rights. Rights aren't just a good idea, or something to trot out on the 4th of July. Rights are absolutely vital.



    No no no... He has got nothing aginst Peoples Right or the laws... Its About Respect, i agree, but as Ocers we to need to respect other to. just cause we think and know we have a right to Oc doesnt mean that we can just walk up to someones house we'v never been to and expect them to be ok with it.. Its HIS house. Not a place like walmat Safeway or watever... Its about respect and thought. If that were my house i would of told him to cover his gun.
    and what difference would that make except possibly asking him to break the law if he doesn't have a cc permit

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    I see absolutely nothing on this thread that indicates the home business owner advised the customer of his feelings nor asked him to remove his gun.

    I OC 24/7 and will gladly takes my business elsewhere if so advised.

    IMO - silence gave consent in this case unless prior authorization is required under Oregon law.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I went to the house of someone I've never met two times and they never noticed, and the third time I left an Oregon Open Carry handout on the table and they started reading it and said "So if I legally owned the gun I could carry it?" And then I showed them, "Like this?" and that is how he found out I carried. All it did was confirm that it was possible to him.

    If I am not allowed to carry, I don't go there.

    Your post to me doesn't even make sense, carrying a gun to me is like a hat, or clothes. Would you have acted like that toward someone who was wearing a funny hat? The way you talk about carrying a gun is the same as racism. Just replace the open carrier with "black person" and you will realize how ridiculous sounding it was to me. If he was acting normal and non threatening then what is even the issue?

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    Damn Dudes I wasnt trying to start an argument lol.... Never mind goodness...

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    I believe this was a viable topic, it is important to see how each of us views a situation from a different light. It also shows how some people scream and yell to have their rights upheld, yet are willing to sacrifice the rights of others when they are inconvenienced.

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    Glockguy wrote:
    Damn Dudes I wasnt trying to start an argument lol.... Never mind goodness...
    Really? Hard to tell since many of us don't agree with your assessment and as such you've called us stupid...in your opinion. I was returning my opinion to you with no malicious intent.

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    Glockguy wrote:
    Damn Dudes I wasnt trying to start an argument lol.... Never mind goodness...
    It's called open discussion - an exchange of different views. If you don't want other people's viewpoints or aren't willing to hear their answers, don't ask the question.

    You would seem to have a predetermined agenda/conclusion that thereby denies alternative thinking. Not trying to be offensive; however, in light of your opening remarks and response above, one could easily come to that conclusion.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    GG - I really don't see where there are any arguments within this thread. As others have said, I see a communication involving different viewpoints. And I had not thought about it before, but your sub title really confuses me as to what you wanted from this thread. Did you just want 3 people to say "Ya you're right, I agree" and let the thread die or did you want viewpoints on it?

    I think it really comes down to people thinking it does make a difference that it was a business and less agreement even it if was not a business. I personally would not open carry into someone's private home without asking permission first but, as stated, would have no problem with it if they were running a business there.

    -adamsesq

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    NaT805 wrote:
    I went to the house of someone I've never met two times and they never noticed, and the third time I left an Oregon Open Carry handout on the table and they started reading it and said "So if I legally owned the gun I could carry it?" And then I showed them, "Like this?" and that is how he found out I carried. All it did was confirm that it was possible to him.

    If I am not allowed to carry, I don't go there.

    Your post to me doesn't even make sense, carrying a gun to me is like a hat, or clothes. Would you have acted like that toward someone who was wearing a funny hat? The way you talk about carrying a gun is the same as racism. Just replace the open carrier with "black person" and you will realize how ridiculous sounding it was to me. If he was acting normal and non threatening then what is even the issue?

    The funny hat wouldn't matter but I expect you to take your hat off when you enter my house or business. Since this was in Oregon the laws are different but in SC you are required to obtain permission before you enter a home carrying a gun. Now if someone runs a business out of their home that does not necessarily make it a public place. For instance an artist may work out of his home or many people set aside a part of their home as a home office and claim it on their taxes. Does that change the rules for the rest of their house. From the OP I don't think the customer was able to just walk in but rather knocked on the door an invited in.

    He should have been asked to remove his gun before entering and if that insulted him and he left that would be fine with me. Once again it appears that the only rights recognized by this board are those who are carrying a gun and the rest of the world can just put up with it or else.


    Last week I was eating breakfast in a local diner and I saw a eldery black man walk in and sit down. The first thing he did was take his hat off and lay it to the side. When I finished I walked over to him and said, "I saw you take you hat off when you entered and want you to know that I appreciate that there are some gentlemen left in this world". I paid for his breakfast and walked out.

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    Glockguy wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Glockguy wrote:
    SNIP Do u think he had a good reason to be upset?
    Of course, he did. To say otherwise is give thought control a foothold.

    But, the OCer wasn't responsible for his anger.

    Your friend either respects the rights of others or he doesn't. In this case, on this particular right, I'd say he doesn't.

    Perhaps you can gently educate your friend on the importance of respecting rights, especially enumerated rights. Rights aren't just a good idea, or something to trot out on the 4th of July. Rights are absolutely vital.



    No no no... He has got nothing aginst Peoples Right or the laws... Its About Respect, i agree, but as Ocers we to need to respect other to. just cause we think and know we have a right to Oc doesnt mean that we can just walk up to someones house we'v never been to and expect them to be ok with it.. Its HIS house. Not a place like walmat Safeway or watever... Its about respect and thought. If that were my house i would of told him to cover his gun.
    I don't expect anyone to be ok with me carrying my gun.If I was constantly worried about what other people think then I would never leave the house.On private property (business or residence) if they don't want me there, then I'll leave and never come back. I don't go to businesses that don't respect my rights, but I respect their rights by never coming back. As far as some one's home, I was once invited to a party at some one's house that I had never been to and I OCed. No one said a word all night. About a week later I was invited over for another party, but was asked to not bring my gun. I told her I respected the fact that my gun made her uncomfortable, but if I don't carry my gun then I fell uncomfortable and I wouldn't be coming over anymore.Everyone just needs to respect everyone else's rights.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Glockguy wrote:
    SNIP Do u think he had a good reason to be upset?
    Of course, he did. To say otherwise is give thought control a foothold.

    But, the OCer wasn't responsible for his anger.

    Your friend either respects the rights of others or he doesn't. In this case, on this particular right, I'd say he doesn't.

    Perhaps you can gently educate your friend on the importance of respecting rights, especially enumerated rights. Rights aren't just a good idea, or something to trot out on the 4th of July. Rights are absolutely vital.

    The right to control what goes on your private property is equally as important, enumerated or not. Free speech is an enumerated right, too, but that doesn't mean you can come over to my house, start spouting off at the mouth, and have a protest march on my front lawn. Only with my permission may you do so, and only with my permission may you carry a loaded firearm on my property.

    Obviously, for most of you guys this is not a problem with me, the fact that I am a regular on this forum says something about my attitude towards carry. But I reserve the right to tell anyone to vacate my property if I decide I don't want you to carry, if I don't like what comes out of your mouth, if I don't like the shirt you're wearing, or even because I woke up with a bad attitude. It's not even open for discussion. My house is mine and that's the end of it.

    Now concerning the story in the OP, I think the armed man must demonstrate some prudence. Currently it's not common for most people to carry openly, and yes, we are trying to change that, but if you are doing business with somebody you don't really know, you should be aware that the sight of your sidearm may cause problems. If, upon reflection, you are okay with that risk, than go ahead and carry anyway, and just be prepared to deal with the consequences. Be ready to immediately offer to place the pistol in your car or to leave if you have to. It all depends on how important this business transaction is to you.

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    Well I guess I should of thrown this in... and This is the one thing that bothered my... I asked my Wat kind of gun he was carrying... just to start a convo.. and yes I did have mine on my hip as well... And he just unholsters his gun rught there on the side walk ans was like here see a Taruas.. Soo to me.. in a way.. I feel like he was just OCing to Show Boat.. But again... Maybe I just Have a strainge View of things.. and I Never meant to Start this Thread to Bash anyone or Offend anyone and I kinda of feel like i have And I never meant to do soo... Soo I appologize if I have Offended anyone..

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    I don't see that any offense has occured, just a very valid discussion. I for one OC wherever I can legally. I OCed to my sisters house for a late christmas party, my nephew acted offended and made a comment about hiding my weapon as his kids were there. My sister never asked me to disarm so I finished my coffee and left. I will not return to their house unless I absolutely have to. That is my choice and I hold no grudge over it.

    I will carry to any business or private home I visit, but will disarm or leave when asked. I will not disarm just on the off chance I might possibly offend somone.. I tend not to be politically correct.

    J

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    Glockguy wrote:
    Today My Friend who has a small business he runs out of his home, had a customer show up to his house, who he had never met before until today when he showed up at his house, for his appointment... Now the new customer of his happened to be OCing...... My Friend Is married has 3 kids that live at his home and my Friend was quite surprised to see this guy just show up on his door step with a gun on his hip.. and he was quite concerned as to Why a person would show up at his house with a loaded handgun.. Now my question is.. Would you or have you ever done this or what's your opinion on it? I this this Was really innapproiate, and not smart For this kid to do..I just think this gives OCer's a bad rep.. Cause it just makes it seem like we can carry where ever.. I oc but i think we all think about where were gonna oc befor we do it and think about weither its a good place to oc or conceal.. and plus it pissed my friend off pretty bad.. Do u think he had a good reason to be upset?

    I think that this young gentleman made a blunder due to his young age and will learn from this.
    I think that we all make mistakes and learn from them. The older that we are, the more wise we become.
    "He who has not sinned, cast the first stone..."

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    JBURGII wrote:
    I don't see that any offense has occured, just a very valid discussion. I for one OC wherever I can legally. I OCed to my sisters house for a late christmas party, my nephew acted offended and made a comment about hiding my weapon as his kids were there. My sister never asked me to disarm so I finished my coffee and left. I will not return to their house unless I absolutely have to. That is my choice and I hold no grudge over it.

    I will carry to any business or private home I visit, but will disarm or leave when asked. I will not disarm just on the off chance I might possibly offend somone.. I tend not to be politically correct.

    J
    I think you guys are brave as I have not yet open carried. I think it is good for children to be exposed to weapons especially if the gun is under a responsible persons control. We need to allow people to become more used to gun carrying in general, where they think it is commonplace.

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    I have become very comfortable carrying openly and now treat it like wearing a hat. I haven't had any problems with anyone either leo or citizen.. most contacts I have had have been curiosity.. passed out a lot of flyers so far.

    I believe that people as well as kids need to get used to seeing Joe Average carrying his pdw, get used to it and even get trained themselves in safety and use.

    God bless the Free People of my Republic!!

    Rev. Jim

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    JBurg - what are you passing out as flyers?

    -adamsesq

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    Mutoman wrote:
    I think a person has a right to delegate what is allowed in their own house whether they are running a business out of their house or not. The fact that a person is carrying a gun does not mean they are an upstanding citizen who poses no harm to one's family. I cannot criticize this person for being concerned of someone showing up on his doorstep carrying a weapon. On the other hand he is running a business out of his house and just the fact that he is inviting strangers into his residence denotes a chance of danger whether they are carrying a gun or not.

    I would be less concerned with someone who was open carrying for it shows a willingness to be open to their choice. Obviously the person was invited as a customer, so they had a reason for being at the mans house.

    With all this taken into account, I don't believe there was any reason to be angry at the customer, but he had every right to ask the person to not carry in his house.

    The customer has every right to open carry where he or she is invited into personal property or business unless told otherwise.

    We cannot expect people to uphold our right to carry, if we fail to support their right to govern their private property.
    I completely agree Mutoman,

    As the ultimate purpose of the OC movement is to make carrying a firearm a "common" act and overall socially expected, if not universally accepted, it all comes down to respecting each others rights, BUT each in turn.

    The customer had his right to carry his firearm with all reasonable belief that he was invited to do so until told otherwise by the property owner. Once told that his firearm was not welcome on your friends property, the customer no longer had the right to stay on the property until the terms of the property owner were met, and conversely, the customer then had the right to decide if he would accept those terms or take his business elsewhere. Simple really.

    The fact that your friend became upset or distressed in any way is really neither here nor there as long has his wishes were respected when they were made known, and the customer complied.

    Since you make no note that your friend made any such request, we are left to believe that he was at first startled but willing to bear the initial social discomfort of the situation to conduct business, then dealt with his uncertainty of the matter afterward. Sounds like he handled it fairly well and may have learned a positive lesson from the encounter.

    "To see no gun, to hear no gun and to speek of no gun, does not meen the gun is not there. What matters in the end is what the gun did, or did not do, and not how it made you feel."
    ~FMCDH~


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