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Thread: First negative experience

  1. #1
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    Went out to pick up some Thai food here in Blaine last night. As I stood at the counter waiting for my order another customer walked up to pay her bill. She looked at me then asked if I was LEO. I told her I wasn't. She then said "So what's the deal with that thing?" I asked her "What thing?" "The gun" was her response. Why are you carrying a gun? I told her that it was for self defense and she wanted to know if I'd ever used it (after a snide comment about needed self defense in Blaine). I told her that I never had and she sneeringly said "Oh, so its a guy thing". My response to that was that it was nothing to do with being a guy thing, but that like any emergency equipment, a tire jack or a cell phone, it was better to have it if you needed it.

    At this point her husband jumped in from halfway across the restaurant. "Do you have any training?" "In what?" I responded. "Well, are you ex-military, or anything?". I told him that I was ex-military but that my military service had nothing to do with the firearm. He then got up and walked over to the counter and started to tell me how he had been a weapons instructor back during Vietnam "Not just little pieces of **** like that thing" motioning towards my pistol "but heavy stuff". He then told me that if I openly carried a firearm that others would take it as a challenge. I pointed out that criminals were generally looking for easy targets and he added that he meant law enforcement. "If they see you carrying they will view it as a challenge. You're just asking for trouble". I pointed out that it was perfectly legal in Washington State and he just sort of shrugged, said "Whatever" and walked back to his seat. At that point my food arrived and I left.

    So here's where I think I could have had better rejoinders.

    1) Are you LEO? No. Then what is the deal with that thing? Better answer to the second question "I carry if for self defense, would it make a difference if I was LEO?

    2) So its a guy thing? Better answer: No I am taking personal responsibility for my safety and the safety of others around me.

    3)In Blaine? Better answer: So would you be OK with me openly carrying if we were in Seattle having the same conversation?

    4)Everything he said: Better answer: So what steps have you taken to ensure the safety of your wife when you go out at night?

    All in all I though it went OK. They obviously weren't going to be convinced. I could tell from the "rotten fish" expression on her face and the "I used to..." anecdote from him that they were both far superior to any neanderthal who would actually think about having and using a firearm. However, most of the conversation was audible to the two or three other groups in the small restaurant and I think I presented myself as a responsible person who was taking proactive steps to prevent any harm to myself or others.

  2. #2
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    heresolong wrote:
    1) Are you LEO? No. Then what is the deal with that thing? Better answer to the second question "I carry if for self defense, would it make a difference if I was LEO?

    2) So its a guy thing? Better answer: No I am taking personal responsibility for my safety and the safety of others around me.

    3)In Blaine? Better answer: So would you be OK with me openly carrying if we were in Seattle having the same conversation?

    4)Everything he said: Better answer: So what steps have you taken to ensure the safety of your wife when you go out at night?
    1) If it looks like there's a way to neutralize by presentation of an acronym, I have selected "I'm CID"
    That's civilian in distribution
    No badge or any other sign of officialdom.
    I think at times, if it's apparent that this is a no-win argument, a way to conclude it promptly is in order.

    2) Is fear and disrespect of others a girl thing? How is gender associated with the issue? That is extremely prejudiced.

    3)Do crimes only happen in other towns? I was not aware that Blaine was exempt from crime. From my personal experience, 2 times in 30+ years I have had to unholster, both were in rural areas, not urban areas.

    4) Ever read of any mass murders? Listened to testimony of bystanders who said "If they'd only had a means to defend themselves"? Plan to do that with "heavy stuff"? Where do you typically carry that?

    Obviously, some of that is inflammatory, and you don't want to say that. Well, maybe you do, but shouldn't.
    They are the ones who were antagonistic.
    At times, a way to make an exit without a scene is the best you can hope for. There's no reasoning with the unreasonable.

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    In hindsight we can almost always come up with better answers. That being said, I think your given answers were great. Situation well handled.

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    Sounds like it was very much a guy thing- for her. So much so that she ditched her husband and started chatting you up. Her husband got there just in time. The "rotten fish" expression was her realizing with her jerk husband there she wasn't going to be able to proposition you.

    Seriously: you took the highroad with two people determined to be obnoxious. You may have made more progress with them than you think.
    "Progress," in their case, would be to not try to have a confrontation with the next person they see open carrying. Which is good, since I think many open carriers wouldn't have had your patience.

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    Seems like you encountered a couple of chodes...I think you did alright considered the way they came at you.

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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    heresolong, I think you handled yourself very well, considering how aggressive she was and how poorly her husband (presumably) acted as well.

    I think I might have answered this way:

    1. "Are you an officer?" No ma'am.
    2. "Then what's the deal with that thing?"I can't have an officer with me 24/7 to ensure my safety. I have toensure my own safety.
    3. "So it's a guy thing?" It's a safety thing; women carry too.
    4. "In Blaine?" Not just Blaine; I carry everywhere I can do so legally.

    Some food for thought about Blaine, WA from the City of Blaine website:

    http://www.ci.blaine.wa.us/index.asp?NID=268Emphasis added by me.


    Major crime in Blaine increased in the first half of 2007, after a decrease in 2006. January through June 2007 officers investigated 36 assaults compared with 29 in the same period of 2006 and 32 in 2005. Of the 36 assaults, three were serious felonies and 13 were related to domestic violence.

    Burglaries decreased substantially, with 12 break-ins in the first half of 2007 compared with 23 in 2006 and 12 in the same period of 2005. Overall, across all categories of serious crime (Murder, Rape, Robbery, Assault, Burglary, Larceny and Motor Vehicle Theft), crime instances increased 42%, from 127 incidents in January through June of 2006, and increased 13% from the 161 incidents reported in the first half of 2005.

    As in previous years, the change is attributed largely to an increase in larcenies (thefts): there have been 132 reported Jan-June of 2007, with only 67 reported in 2006 and 115 in the first half of 2005. Blaine did not suffer any rapes, robberies or murders in the first half of 2007: nonetheless the increase in incidents of assaults and thefts is of concern and are problems we are addressing through more focused patrols and information gathering.

    Our new Community Service Officer position should be of special value in helping officers investigate pattern crimes such as larceny, which frequently cross jurisdictional boundaries.


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    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    Hammer wrote:
    3)Do crimes only happen in other towns? I was not aware that Blaine was exempt from crime. From my personal experience, 2 times in 30+ years I have had to unholster, both were in rural areas, not urban areas.
    I always get the "crime doesnt happen to me or whereI live and it never will so I don't need to be prepared" response when I tell people why I carry.

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    ...I usually answer rude questions with a cold stare...once they hear the echoes, they usually go away....

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    heresolong wrote:
    customer walked up to pay her bill. She looked at me then asked if I was LEO.
    My answer would have been "No, Are You?"



    Obviously this person was looking to make an issue of your carrying.



    As for the "BigStuff " her husband handled inVietnam, it was probably just the cut off oil drums that they burned all the $h!t from the latrines in.


    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    ..another customer walked up to pay her bill. She looked at me then asked if I was LEO.
    My answer would have been "No, Are You?"
    Even that is divulging more information than is warranted. Why not turn the tables on the questioner by responding, in a very polite manner, "Why do you ask?"





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    Hammer be careful using "CID". CID (criminal investigation division) is an army MOS. I'm not army so not sure if I have all the words right. Just a heads up.

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    When I'm spending money in a restaurant, I expect a perfect dining experience, free from any unpleasantness whatsoever. I don't care if it's McDonald's or El Gaucho. If I don't get a perfect dining experience, I complain to the manager.

    I would have complained to management in this case. You were there minding your own business and were accosted. They caused the problem, not you. They should have been ejected.

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    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
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    1. Are you a LEO?

    No, I'm a Scorpio.

    2. Do you have any training?

    No, I just picked this up over at Bob's Gun's 'n' Stuff. I had a coupon.

    3.So it's a guy thing?

    Yeah, I'm trying to make up for my small penis. The ginormous truck wasn't enough.

    4. In Blaine?

    Blaine? Blaine? That's not a name! That's a major appliance! (movie quote, extra points if you know which one)

    Speaking of Blaine, is anyone else watching that new Homeland Security show on Tuesday nights? I think it's pretty interesting.


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    dlnwoody wrote:
    Hammer be careful using "CID". CID (criminal investigation division) is an army MOS. I'm not army so not sure if I have all the words right. Just a heads up.
    Yeah, I'm aware, and would be aware of who was listening. I would also not offer any kind of official (or official looking) presentation that might make someone think I was Army CID.
    I am a Civilian In Distribution.
    An LEO might be a
    Legalist
    Encroaching
    Orangutans

    but if it ends what is going to become some disputative bunch of BS, I'll use it.
    I won't deliberately impersonate an officer. I will let an idiot leave me alone.


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    dlnwoody wrote:
    Hammer be careful using "CID". CID (criminal investigation division) is an army MOS. I'm not army so not sure if I have all the words right. Just a heads up.
    It is also a Federal Agent designation (1811 series criminal Investigator).

    I was asked one time "Are you a Cop?" I simply replied "Why, is there a problem?" the person said "no..." and...... before they could say anymore I said "Thats good, have a nice day" He just walked away talking to himself.

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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    I was asked one time "Are you a Cop?" I simply replied "Why, is there a problem?" the person said "no..." and...... before they could say anymore I said "Thats good, have a nice day" He just walked away talking to himself.
    Now I LIKE that!

    It works for me (I am a firefighter and wear a uniform) but it wouldn't work for everyone: "I'm sorry, that is not a question I answer when I am not in uniform..."

    -adamsesq


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    Trigger DR,

    I was asked one time "Are you a Cop?" I simply replied "Why, is there a problem?
    Oooh, I like your answer even better than mine!


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    If asked "are you a cop?", reply with "Are you Sarah Connor?"
    This would probably work better if you have sunglasses on...
    When the **** hits the fan, ask yourself: What Would Bugly Do?

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    trevorthebusdriver wrote:
    Blaine? Blaine? That's not a name! That's a major appliance! (movie quote, extra points if you know which one)

    Speaking of Blaine, is anyone else watching that new Homeland Security show on Tuesday nights? I think it's pretty interesting.
    Pretty in Pink John Cryer to Molly Ringwald

    I don't see any reason toinvolvemyself in a no-win discussion. I suppose it would be pressing the issue by just telling her "See you next Tuesday," but that might be viewed as a provocation. Seems appropriate though.

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    I would feel it safe to assume that if you answer the question "are you a cop?" with a response that leaves them with the impression that you answered to the affirmative, that any police officer and others that do matter will assume that there was an impersonation. Combine this with an anti-gun cop, or a cop who feels citizens should not be armed, at least in public, and you have a recipe for disaster. You do not have to be guilty to be convicted. You are not obligated to talk to rude people, and can stop talking anytime you choose. As others have said, taking the high road probably embarrassed them.

  21. #21
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    You never know how you will react to hostile or negative people until you encounter them. We all have different reactions to hostile behavior and questioning. I think you did good under the circumstances. Next time you will be better prepared mentally to deal with this sort of thing

    I simply tell people "Nope." if they ask if I am a cop. Then they usually ask "security?" And I say "Nope." Then they get real confused and one of several things happen. They decide they are uncomfortable and walk away (hey I cross the street to avoid big dogs, so what the heck, we all have our comfort levels) they think it's real cool what I'm doing and ask all sorts of questions, or they try to engage me in some sort of argument about why people carry guns. Either way it works out for me. People either leave me alone, or the conversation continues on my own terms. Win-win. Sometimes I simply wish to be left alone, regardless of how I wear my gun, what t-shirt I'm wearing, or what book I'm reading. So I'll politely acknowledge a person and their questions, then go back to what I'm doing. Other times I'm happy to engage in conversation.

    I find a simple, honest answer is the best. There is no reason to suggest anything but the truth. If you are unable or unwilling to be directly honest, then perhaps OCing in a state where few do it may not suit you.



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    Could you get in trouble if, after you respond that you are not a cop and they keep asking why you have a gun, you say that you are in charge of security for an important client? You don't have to tell them that you are the important client.

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    Nozoki wrote:
    Could you get in trouble if, after you respond that you are not a cop and they keep asking why you have a gun, you say that you are in charge of security for an important client? You don't have to tell them that you are the important client.
    I don't feel like I need an excuse to carry a gun. This seems a lot like dissembling, leaving them with the impression that yes, you do need to have a particular job in order to carry a firearm.

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    hersolong I commend you on your patience with these knuckleheads. I would have lost me cool with them once they started with the abrasive rudeness, insults and personal inquires. The wife always scolds me when I tell these types to “F” off. They wanted to know nothing of the real issue, sounds like they only wanted to belittle you in public.
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    heresolong wrote:
    Nozoki wrote:
    Could you get in trouble if, after you respond that you are not a cop and they keep asking why you have a gun, you say that you are in charge of security for an important client? You don't have to tell them that you are the important client.
    I don't feel like I need an excuse to carry a gun. This seems a lot like dissembling, leaving them with the impression that yes, you do need to have a particular job in order to carry a firearm.
    Excellent point.

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