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Thread: Open Letter From a Cop

  1. #1
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    I've been reading here for a bit now and have posted a few times. I've got to tell you all that I love the idea of open carry and support it whole heartedly. I truly believe that man (in the gender neutral sense:?of course - hey I'm in Kalifornia, what do you expect) can not be free unless he has the right and ability toinfluence the most basic aspect of his life, that being whether or not he and his can live unmolested. I also believe to the very core of my being that rights are inalienably linked to responsibilities. Each act has a consequence and it is the doers duty to take full and unflinching credit for his actions. In addition, I believe that we as members of our society have an obligation to each other. To enjoy the benefits of our society we must pay in cash, work and blood for our position in society.

    That being said, I must admit to being distressed most every time LEOs become the topic of conversation. Sometimes the posts are good. The good ones usually run along the lines of "I was doing nothing illegal, the cops recognized this fact and did nothing." All to often though the story is "I was doing nothing illegal andthe cops treated me badly." This is almost immediatly followed by calls for tarring, feathering and rail ridingout of town the offending cops and the horses they rode in on. By the time the thread is firmly established one gets the feeling that all LEOs are hand maidens ofthe antichrist or Diane Feinstein. Broad brushes are great for painting houses but they rather suck for reasoned discussion of complex topics.

    I will never defend a cop who does wrong. I will though, offer up something that I once posted on a motorcycle forum regarding cops and the way many of them see the world. For some reason motorcyclists seem to share certain personality traits and opinionswith gun owners.

    -Unfortunately, some of us are just dicks. The percentage of dicks in uniform is probably about the same as dicks out of uniform. The big difference is that the uniformed dick is harder to forget.

    Most of us drive like A-holes. We learn quickly that the only way to get anywhere in a short enough time to keep our poor beloved citizens and revered bosses from bitching at us for taking too long is to drive aggressively. Of course they also spank the snot out of us when we screw up and crash. Can your boss fire you for crashing your car? Mine can. Once we get the habit of driving hard it never goes away. Heavy right foot or over active right wrist anyone?

    Some of us need to get close to read a license plate. Most of us have also learned that getting close is a good way of giving some doper mope out looking to steal some honest citizen's stuff a case of the fever which causes him to do something stupid enough to justify stopping him so that at least he's not stealing for the next hour because he's still twitchy over the cops jamming him up. Some of us just jam up normal people because we are dicks.

    All of us "profile". Some of us are better at it than others and get it right more often than not. Those of us with brains keep it on the polite side until we know for sure that we have caught us a real mope so that we can dust off and send on their way with minimal fuss, any good citizens who we mistakenly misread. Those of us who get it more wrong than right are dicks.

    Most of us are just regular folks who have been taught by our fellow man to hate our fellow man because we get the pleasure of cleaning up his crap on a regular basis. Some of us are just dicks.

    Most of us could give a rats a$$ about revenue because we don't see any of it. The county takes its cut, the court takes its cut and my city might just get a few bucks per ticket that go towards paving the street. No one gives me a toaster if I write a whole bunch of tickets. In fact, chances are your court appearance screwed up my day off. Those of us who do care about revenue generation fall firmly in to the "dicks looking to become administrators" category.

    Most of us really do believe that it ain't personal, its just business. Those of us who don't are dicks.

    Most of us will happily sit down over a beer with anyone who isn't a dick and bitch about how screwed up the government is. Those of us who won't are dicks.

    Now I'm going to quit my bitching, sign off, leave my brass pass and gat on the dresser, speed down the nearest boulevard and hope I don't get pulled over by some dick.-


    In the interests of full disclosure I was a JBT for 11 years andwill hopefullyget back in to the JBT business in the near future. If I didn't need to keep my life completely uncomplicated while I work on regaining my JBT status I'd be out there open carrying too. I'm in the LAarea and I doff my hat to those of you with the stones to do it here.

    I'm going to put on my nomex speedo and safety gogglesnow and see what happens.

  2. #2
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    Interesting and humorous

    What's JBT stand far ?

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    LOL



    That was full of win, sir. Good post and you summed up the PO-lice pretty well.

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    Thank you, sir, for taking the time to share your perspective. And thank you for your service.

    I hope that when I am "contacted" by law enforcement because I'm open-carrying, it will be a thoughtful, considerate civil servant like yourself.

    Dustin wrote:
    Interesting and humorous

    What's JBT stand far ?
    JBT = Jack-Booted-Thug


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    Dustin wrote:
    Interesting and humorous

    What's JBT stand far ?
    It stands for "Jack Booted Thug"
    It's a derogatory term used to describe law enforcement personnel.




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    All the OP did was confirm what most folks think about ALL cops.

    Just to note: I have 2 uncles that are cops. They are not dicks.

    Im about to sign up for an aux sherrif dept kinda thing myself. I can be a dick. But only when provoked.

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    I guess the bottom line here is that innocent people are treated badly because they resemble bad guys. (i.e. carrying a gun or riding a motorcycle or heaven forbid BOTH) and that is just an individual cop being a dick. But treating all cops as offenders is somehow wrong? If we are guilty by association then you should be too. When I have been stopped for legitimate reasons I have been 100% polite, respectful and cooperative yet still treated like crap. When it has been a B.S. stop just because of my looks, appearances or mode of transportation (motorcycle) I disagree with the officer and have to put up with even MORE B.S.

    I guess the common denominator here is being harassed and having to take a load of B.S. whether guilty or not just because they can.

    It seems to me that the blue gang doesn't know the golden rule. Treat others as you would have them treat you.

    You may beat the ticket but you can't beat the ride. Whether it's legal or not. And you have NO true recourse.

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    AllAmerican wrote:
    Im about to sign up for an aux sherrif dept kinda thing myself. I can be a dick. But only when provoked.
    That's what they all say.

    I also find it ironic and funny that your name is AllAmerican, and you want to be in LE.

  9. #9
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    You can't blame all cops for the acts of some (I don't say "a few" because in some places, the active perpetrators plus their defenders are more than a few).

    On the other hand, when you have police committing SERIOUS crimes, you can't just say, "It's only a few, don't worry about it." You especially can't say that to somebody who's been both falsely arrested AND verbally and physically abused, or whose home has been devastated by a raid eitherat the wrong location or based on sloppy or false evidence. All too often, the reaction of police in those circumstances is, "Accidents happen. Deal with it." But when the INNOCENT victims "deal with it" by sueing the poilice as individuals, the plaintiffs are told, "There are too many laws for the police to know!" or "Yeah, you're dog (or your child) was shot, but you're just sueing because you're greedy!"

    If you're going to own the good things that cops do, you've got to own the bad as well. Complaining that the media show video of a 250lb. cop stomping a 115lb. woman into the ground "too much", while banding together to support the perpetrator in VERY public ways is a way to earn contempt, NOT respect.

    I've never been a cop. I don't need to be one to know that kicking down the wrong door and killing the occupant when he's defending himself from an apparent home invasion, orenforcing nonexistent "laws"are things you shouldn't do.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    BlueStreek wrote:
    You may beat the ticket but you can't beat the ride. Whether it's legal or not. And you have NO true recourse.
    Deanimator's corrollary:

    If I'm falsely arrested, I may not be able to beat the ride, but the cop can't beat the civil suit, judgement, wage garnishments and Sheriff's sale. No settlement, no way, no how. And don't hide behind your family. If you weren't thinking about them when you were violating my rights, I'm sure not going to think about them when I'm attaching your furniture and your kids' college fund to satisfy a civil judgement.

    That's my price for not forcibly resisting a false arrest or erroneously storming my home. If you don't like it, don't falsely arrest me or break into my home. If that's too complicated for you, MacDonald's is hiring most everywhere.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Sheriff wrote:
    grumpycoconut wrote:
    -Unfortunately, some of us are just dicks. The percentage of dicks in uniform is probably about the same as dicks out of uniform. The big difference is that the uniformed dick is harder to forget.
    Yeah, I wonder why that is? Adick in aMcDonalds drive-thru is no big deal. You can usually get over it within a tenth of a mile of leaving the place. Butit's hard to get over a uniformed dick who falsely arrests you resulting inyour name and face being plastered in the newspapers and TV stations, and you are then wrongfully prosecuted as well in an attempt by the commonwealthto geta conviction so as to lessen their civil liability at a later date. Combined with the $10,000 to $20,000 in legal fees you must spend up front to defend yourself from the false arrest. Sure, you get these legal fees back once you sue the cop and his department, but it takes anywhere from 2 to 7 years to get your money back. Ohh, yes sir, it's hard to get over a uniformed dick!

    EDIT: typo


    The difference is in the magnitude of impact. The everyday dick typically has a minor impact if any on your day. The police dick can (with relative ease) ruin your day for several years at a minimum.

    Either way, regardless of occupation, dicks suck (no pun or play on words intended).

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    thats racist

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    Deanimator wrote:
    BlueStreek wrote:
    You may beat the ticket but you can't beat the ride. Whether it's legal or not. And you have NO true recourse.
    Deanimator's corrollary:

    If I'm falsely arrested, I may not be able to beat the ride, but the cop can't beat the civil suit, judgement, wage garnishments and Sheriff's sale. No settlement, no way, no how. And don't hide behind your family. If you weren't thinking about them when you were violating my rights, I'm sure not going to think about them when I'm attaching your furniture and your kids' college fund to satisfy a civil judgement.

    That's my price for not forcibly resisting a false arrest or erroneously storming my home. If you don't like it, don't falsely arrest me or break into my home. If that's too complicated for you, MacDonald's is hiring most everywhere.
    That's a great thought but after they have confiscated all your property and wealth under "color of the law" (i.e. false drug changes) what are you going to fight with. After you spend everything you have on defense, if you have anything left, you might be able to start a civil action. Good luck with that. Don't forget the constant harassment from his buddies protecting his back. When they're done with you you'll be lucky to have a name left. Of course it won't be worth anything.

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    BlueStreek wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    BlueStreek wrote:
    You may beat the ticket but you can't beat the ride. Whether it's legal or not. And you have NO true recourse.
    Deanimator's corrollary:

    If I'm falsely arrested, I may not be able to beat the ride, but the cop can't beat the civil suit, judgement, wage garnishments and Sheriff's sale. No settlement, no way, no how. And don't hide behind your family. If you weren't thinking about them when you were violating my rights, I'm sure not going to think about them when I'm attaching your furniture and your kids' college fund to satisfy a civil judgement.

    That's my price for not forcibly resisting a false arrest or erroneously storming my home. If you don't like it, don't falsely arrest me or break into my home. If that's too complicated for you, MacDonald's is hiring most everywhere.
    That's a great thought but after they have confiscated all your property and wealth under "color of the law" (i.e. false drug changes) what are you going to fight with. After you spend everything you have on defense, if you have anything left, you might be able to start a civil action. Good luck with that. Don't forget the constant harassment from his buddies protecting his back. When they're done with you you'll be lucky to have a name left. Of course it won't be worth anything.
    Bring it.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    PaulBlart wrote:
    thats racist
    What's racist?

  16. #16
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    grumpycoconut wrote:
    PaulBlart wrote:
    thats racist
    What's racist?
    Nothing. He's a running joke which has run its course long ago.

    Read the user's name then check your local movie listings. You'll figure it out.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Kindly point out which officers in the following picture are not dicks:



    Do you see the problem? Once you put on 70 lb of body armour and CRUSH US UNDER YOUR BOOTS, it's hard to tell which ones are the dicks, and which ones are the "OK guys".

    So I ask - Are you a "defender of the peace", or an "enforcer of the law"?

  18. #18
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    canadian wrote:
    Kindly point out which officers in the following picture are not dicks:



    Do you see the problem? Once you put on 70 lb of body armour and CRUSH US UNDER YOUR BOOTS, it's hard to tell which ones are the dicks, and which ones are the "OK guys".

    So I ask - Are you a "defender of the peace", or an "enforcer of the law"?
    I'd be tickled pink if cops just OBEYED the law.

    Where I live, they do most of the time.

    Where I used to live, not so much... of course I've actually seen Chicago cops claim that it was lawful for a 250lb. cop to get drunk and try to kick a 115lb. barmaid's teeth down her throat. "Self-defense" because she "touched" him, as the story went. Of course I've also seen them claim it was lawful to sap down an elderly man handcuffed to a wheelchair, after he'd been stabbed. I wonder if those two officers qualify as "dicks"?
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Canadian,

    So I answer: Yes

    When called, I defend the peace. Sometimes with violence.

    When needed, I enforce the law. Most often, peacefully.

    In both cases I try to temper my actions with logic, morality, ethics, justice, need, education, etc, etc. Am I perfect? No. Are all cops perfect? No. Are there any humans who are perfect? No. Do we chuck the baby with the bath water because we don't like the dirt in the water? No.DoI want a perfect system? No. Imperfection and our response to it make us who we are.Are every day and every bump in the road and every asshat cop we come across an opportunity to renegotiate a better social contract? I say yes.

    As for your picture. The 5th JBT from the left looks a little sketchy to me

    Your turn now. Tell me which one of the folks pictured below is a dick.



    Now I'm going to insert my tinfoil cup in my nomex speedo.



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    grumpycoconut wrote:
    -Unfortunately, some of us are just dicks. The percentage of dicks in uniform is probably about the same as dicks out of uniform. The big difference is that the uniformed dick is harder to forget.
    Yes Sir, that pretty much sums it up! In every profession, and in every walk of life, there are @$$holes. That's life.

    In your profession however, you are held to a higher standard in the public eye, so when one of your brethern screws the pooch big time - it has a more damaging effect.

    I'm generally very pro LE, but not afraid to call BS when I see it. That really seems to confuse some people.

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    grumpycoconut, Thanks for your post and welcome to OCDO.

    It's easy to take stories of corrupt, dick-ish, or otherwise bad cops and infer that most cops are jerks, just as people take all the reports of people getting shot by thugs and believe anyone with a gun is a threat and can't be trusted.

    People need to stop transferring the news they learn onto the group at large. Just as we need for people to understand that the overwhelming majority of people out there are GOOD, so are the overwhelming majority of LEOs.

    The fear and discomfort we OCersfeel when initially approached by a LEO is probably exactly the same as someone who's never seen anyone OCing before suddenly sees a holstered firearm on an ordinary guy. We don't know what they're going to do! Are we in danger? What if he pulls his gun on me? etc. etc. If there's no problem, and everything goes smoothly, everyone takes it as a positive encounter and is likely going to be more relaxed the next time.

    ...Orygunner...



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    grumpycoconut wrote:
    Canadian,

    So I answer: Yes

    When called, I defend the peace. Sometimes with violence.

    When needed, I enforce the law. Most often, peacefully.

    In both cases I try to temper my actions with logic, morality, ethics, justice, need, education, etc, etc. Am I perfect? No. Are all cops perfect? No. Are there any humans who are perfect? No. Do we chuck the baby with the bath water because we don't like the dirt in the water? No.DoI want a perfect system? No. Imperfection and our response to it make us who we are.Are every day and every bump in the road and every asshat cop we come across an opportunity to renegotiate a better social contract? I say yes.

    As for your picture. The 5th JBT from the left looks a little sketchy to me

    Your turn now. Tell me which one of the folks pictured below is a dick.



    Now I'm going to insert my tinfoil cup in my nomex speedo.

    You are being evasive.

    As distasteful as I find it to reduce the entire issue to a simple dichotomy, there really are only 2 choices on the menu. If you are unwilling to stand with the citizens against corrupt governments and the corrupt enforcers of the law who protect them, or you are as guilty as they are.

    Remember:

    -The people did not take you to war in 2 seperate countries

    -The people did not bankrupt the entire country, possibly the world

    -The people did not draft most of the legislation that now governs you

    -The people did not send all of your jobs to China

    If the people are guilty of anything, it's the crime of apathy. Whereas the politicians' and their corporate masters' crimes are innumerable and unpunished.

    The motto says "To protect and serve". Protect and serve whom?

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    1. I'll respect LE when the Blue Wall of Silence crumbles.Thewall is mortared with a falseloyaltyto each other, rather thanthe correctloyalty--to the citizens. Elitism is the sand in that mortar.

    2. Remember guys, a "good" cop enforces thelaws. Your "good" fed has been enforcing the NFA since the '30s, enforcing the GCA since the 60's, and enforcing income taxes, social security, asset forfeitures, and so on.Those were"good' cops seizing gunsin New Orleans during Katrina. Those are "good" copsthreatening tostrictly enforce Washington DC's, Chicago's, andNew York City's draconian gun laws.

    And, declaring his pure-as-snow faithful enforcement of those laws, we too often see the responsibility-dodging words, "If you don't like a law, vote out the legislators," the author knowing full well that the people are more or less impotent in the matter. Too bad those authors seem to have forgottenabout tyrrany by the majority.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Canadian,

    Please explain my evasiveness. You asked a question. I answered it. I even went the extra mile to find a nice picture to complement yours. Your comment about corrupt governments also confuses me. Your underlying assumptionseems to bethat US governments that make laws are inherently corrupt because they have written laws that you don't agree with. You also seem to believe that "government" is an external entity imposed on you by some oppressor. My memory of civics class tells me that, although we don't have a direct democracy we have settled on a representative democracy as a good enough for now means of formalizing our societal interactions.

    Citizen,

    How about you. Please explain to me what it is you want.Do you expect inhuman perfection of behavior and thoughtfrom every person who isactually willing to step forward to take a hand in helping keep the tribe running smoothly? Should anyone who steps forward immediately be rejected because the only reason they must be willing to do it is to sieze power and enrich themselves some way? If you step forward can you do everything right every time? Are you even willing to give it a real life shot or have you decided that all is irevocably lost andyourbest remaining option is towhet your rhetorical sword on the stone of the interweb.

    I guess, conditions being what they are,you guys are leftonly a few options. You could sell out your principals, become a cop and influence your community at the ground level one contact at a time, or you could seize the reigns of power by becoming politically active, potentially influencing the whole of your community, or you could take advantage of the depressed housing marketto buy a compound somewhere far away fromcorrupt government, the evil elitistmonied over lordsand their running dog lacky JBTs.

  25. #25
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    I quite enjoyed your opening post grumpycoconut.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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