Federal Police

imported post

sirpuma wrote:

Simple, $$$$. Americans want decent wages. Illegals don't care if they work for $4 per hour. They live 3 or 4 families in a two bedroom apartment to save on costs. They don't pay taxes. Many send loads of money back to Mexico to bring more of them over.

Click to expand...

This is the part that sickens me, American companiesrefusingto pay wages to support Americans and the strengthening of our own country. Look at the number of our own politicians with the illegal’s in the own homes cooking cleaning and changing diapers :banghead:.

imported post

jbone wrote:

sirpuma wrote:

Simple, $$$$. Americans want decent wages. Illegals don't care if they work for $4 per hour. They live 3 or 4 families in a two bedroom apartment to save on costs. They don't pay taxes. Many send loads of money back to Mexico to bring more of them over.

Click to expand...

This is the part that sickens me, American companiesrefusingto pay wages to support Americans and the strengthening of our own country. Look at the number of our own politicians with the illegal’s in the own homes cooking cleaning and changing diapers :banghead:.

Click to expand...

Do you ever comparison shop? Have you ever had the choice between two items and chosen the cheaper of the two, even when the products were similar or even the same? Do you enjoy cheap fruit, well-built but affordable housing and remodels, or any other such good? Do you prefer an economically strong America, or one that is full of feel-good policies?

If the answer to any or all of these questions is yes, then you (should) support immigration in all its forms. Or is it just a fear of brown people who happen to make sacrifices, work very hard, and do it for less? Sure, if they're robbing, raping, or otherwise causing social problems, then punish them for violating those laws. I, however, aspire to rise above the pettiness of such racial hatred and say "live where you want, work where you want, and so long as you don't harm me or mine, we can be neighbors." Live and let live serves to strengthen our country more than any misplaced notion or protectionist policy ever could.

imported post

Tawnos wrote:

jbone wrote:

sirpuma wrote:

Simple, $$$$. Americans want decent wages. Illegals don't care if they work for $4 per hour. They live 3 or 4 families in a two bedroom apartment to save on costs. They don't pay taxes. Many send loads of money back to Mexico to bring more of them over.

Click to expand...

This is the part that sickens me, American companiesrefusingto pay wages to support Americans and the strengthening of our own country. Look at the number of our own politicians with the illegal’s in the own homes cooking cleaning and changing diapers :banghead:.

Click to expand...

Do you ever comparison shop? Have you ever had the choice between two items and chosen the cheaper of the two, even when the products were similar or even the same? Do you enjoy cheap fruit, well-built but affordable housing and remodels, or any other such good? Do you prefer an economically strong America, or one that is full of feel-good policies?

If the answer to any or all of these questions is yes, then you (should) support immigration in all its forms. Or is it just a fear of brown people who happen to make sacrifices, work very hard, and do it for less? Sure, if they're robbing, raping, or otherwise causing social problems, then punish them for violating those laws. I, however, aspire to rise above the pettiness of such racial hatred and say "live where you want, work where you want, and so long as you don't harm me or mine, we can be neighbors." Live and let live serves to strengthen our country more than any misplaced notion or protectionist policy ever could.

Click to expand...

Usually I agree with you on these topics, but lets see 3.6 million Americans out of work and counting, 12 million and counting illegals. Do the math. They are illegals, reason enough for deportation in any country. Come legal, or don't come. my family did legally, your too I bet. Its is not racial hatred, it is economics that America's fallback programs cant keep supporting non-Americans.

imported post

oh god, i knew starting a thread like this would cause flaming. :banghead:
leave it up to some people... :sigh:

imported post

Tawnos wrote:

Do you ever comparison shop? Have you ever had the choice between two items and chosen the cheaper of the two, even when the products were similar or even the same? Do you enjoy cheap fruit, well-built but affordable housing and remodels, or any other such good? Do you prefer an economically strong America, or one that is full of feel-good policies?

If the answer to any or all of these questions is yes, then you (should) support immigration in all its forms. Or is it just a fear of brown people who happen to make sacrifices, work very hard, and do it for less? Sure, if they're robbing, raping, or otherwise causing social problems, then punish them for violating those laws. I, however, aspire to rise above the pettiness of such racial hatred and say "live where you want, work where you want, and so long as you don't harm me or mine, we can be neighbors." Live and let live serves to strengthen our country more than any misplaced notion or protectionist policy ever could.

Click to expand...

Yes, I comparison shop. I look not at the price tag, but at the label. I do my best to support American made products. I look at quality. I believe in you get what you pay for. I don't buy things I can't afford and if I absolutely need it, then I find a way to afford it. If possible, I'll make it my self if I have to.

*tirade redacted*

Now, if the illegal immagrants can't obey our immagration laws and come in to this coutry legally, what makes you think they'll obey any other law. Besides, they've already stated as a people that they will kill off all whites in America and take it over for Mexico. Just review what all La Raza stands for (Mexican for "The Race"). And yes, I diferientiate between Mexican and Spanish. Spanish is a different dialect than that which is spoken in Mexico, which has a large mixture of native words.

imported post

jbone wrote:

I was on my way to Sam's gun shopweek as I passed by the Home depot on Evergreen/99 I saw close to 50 Latino males in the parking lot waiting for the next contractor/construction hiring drive by. Lord I though I was back in San Diego. Didn’t see any LOE checking for green cards, I’d bet most if not all were illegal. Why the hell doesn’t the building industry use the job hiring banks to findlegal employees? Millions of americans out of work and this BS happens everyday.

Click to expand...

As much as I want illegals out of this country, I want the police to uphold the constitution. A bunch of Hispanics hanging around Home Depot isn't probable cause to check their immigration status. It is the same with prostitution. Just cause there is a hooker walking down Aurora doesn't mean you can detain her. That is why there are prostitution stings. You need to get them to admit to what they are doing. The same can be applied to OC. If a bunch of us are OCing in front of a bank, does the police have the probable cause to detain and question us? NO. America was founded by rules and regulations. Just because they (illegal aliens) break the law doesn't mean we should too.

imported post

Triple Tap wrote:

Usually I agree with you on these topics, but lets see 3.6 million Americans out of work and counting, 12 million and counting illegals. Do the math. They are illegals, reason enough for deportation in any country. Come legal, or don't come. my family did legally, your too I bet. Its is not racial hatred, it is economics that America's fallback programs cant keep supporting non-Americans.

Click to expand...

It's easy to support free trade and sound economics when things are going well, but harder to do so when they're not. The truth is that there's a demand for the "illegal" workers (I say 'illegal' in quotes because when I was in southern california, many were there doing legal day labor, but were likely to be classified as illegal).

A "fully employed" country has between 2 and 7 % unemployment at any given time sources. Even right now, the unemployment rate is just above the "full employment" line, and while it seems bad, it really is just another part of another cycle. Looking back, things are still better now than they were during most of the past 30 years.

The problem with the "they're illegal" argument is that is that it uses the malum prohibitumhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malum_prohibitum version of "illegal" to state that a person's presence is malum in se. That conflation violates not only logic, but it makes a leap that says what's right and wrong is determined by the current state of laws, despite all other factors. A comparison with meaning to gun rights advocates would be things like the various bans on scary looking weapons, and the fallout from that. For example, Phillip Joseph Dominguez, who legally owned his "assault rifles," was stopped at LAX, and arrested because (the claim is) they violated the law by transporting it somewhere other than between home and a shooting range. An anti might use the logic "well, if he violated that law, think of what else he might do, we should take his weapons away from him, because he's an obvious danger."

Laws don't tell you what's right and wrong, just what's illegal. I'm saying that, just because the people are here illegally, doesn't make it wrong for them to be here. Especially when they're willing to come over and work hard, live on as frugal a budget as possible, and do everything they can to insure their families have better lives.

Though I could say more about how I'd address the "problem" of immigration, I think that it's better saved for a different thread. What I don't support, however, is expanding the power of search and seizure to make the entire country "stop and identify," per DEROS72's suggestion that we "should be checking at times for citizenship." The fact is, no person, regardless of race, religion, et cetera should be beholden to a system of "show me your papers, citizen" - that's a first step to destroying freedom.

imported post

We should never be a show me your papers society. But we should be you are not a U.S. citizen than we can't give you benefits society. Immigration is a vital part of U.S. economy and great for the melting pot. That is if you come here to be American.

imported post

jbone wrote:

I was on my way to Sam's gun shopweek as I passed by the Home depot on Evergreen/99 I saw close to 50 Latino males in the parking lot waiting for the next contractor/construction hiring drive by. Lord I though I was back in San Diego. Didn’t see any LOE checking for green cards, I’d bet most if not all were illegal. Why the hell doesn’t the building industry use the job hiring banks to findlegal employees? Millions of americans out of work and this BS happens everyday.

Click to expand...

If those "millions of americans" were out before dawn every morning hustling for work and then busting their asses all day long, they wouldn't be "out of work".

Anti-immigrant sentiment is an example of an entitlement mentality, no different than demanding welfare.

imported post

Tawnos wrote:

A "fully employed" country has between 2 and 7 % unemployment at any given time sources. Even right now, the unemployment rate is just above the "full employment" line, and while it seems bad, it really is just another part of another cycle. Looking back, things are still better now than they were during most of the past 30 years.

Click to expand...

Unemployment is really more like 17%.

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/watch.aspx?MediaId=HP-A-14748
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data

imported post

Tawnos wrote:

jbone wrote:

sirpuma wrote:

Simple, $$$$. Americans want decent wages. Illegals don't care if they work for $4 per hour. They live 3 or 4 families in a two bedroom apartment to save on costs. They don't pay taxes. Many send loads of money back to Mexico to bring more of them over.

Click to expand...

This is the part that sickens me, American companiesrefusingto pay wages to support Americans and the strengthening of our own country. Look at the number of our own politicians with the illegal’s in the own homes cooking cleaning and changing diapers :banghead:.

Click to expand...

Do you ever comparison shop? Have you ever had the choice between two items and chosen the cheaper of the two, even when the products were similar or even the same? Do you enjoy cheap fruit, well-built but affordable housing and remodels, or any other such good? Do you prefer an economically strong America, or one that is full of feel-good policies?

If the answer to any or all of these questions is yes, then you (should) support immigration in all its forms. Or is it just a fear of brown people who happen to make sacrifices, work very hard, and do it for less? Sure, if they're robbing, raping, or otherwise causing social problems, then punish them for violating those laws. I, however, aspire to rise above the pettiness of such racial hatred and say "live where you want, work where you want, and so long as you don't harm me or mine, we can be neighbors." Live and let live serves to strengthen our country more than any misplaced notion or protectionist policy ever could.

Click to expand...

Of course I comparison shop, but first I Made in America shop. This is getting hard since so much of our product has been sold out to cheap labor overseas and illegal’s state side.They make huge profits off the backs of the cheap labor, they could still made profitwith American labor and wages, they have sold us out. When Iwas a young teen in south western MI I worked in the tulip field as part time work, all American workers. I saw on my last trip the same had all adult immigrant workers. Dam shame the local teens no longer have a job.

Tawnos; "If the answer to any or all of these questions is yes, then you (should) support immigration in all its forms" ME: My answer is no since it breaks the security of the U.S. and takes jobs away from needy American workers, it does in fact break the law in supporting Illegal’s. I despise illegal immigration and 100% support legal immigration. Let’s see! My ancestors are immigrants from Europeseveral hundred years ago.

Tawnos: "If the answer to any or all of these questions is yes, then you (should) support immigration in all its forms. Or is it just a fear of brown people who happen to make sacrifices, work very hard, and do it for less? Sure, if they're robbing, raping, or otherwise causing social problems, then punish them for violating those laws. I, however, aspire to rise above the pettiness of such racial hatred" ME: What is withtoday classifyinga person a racist or a hater because they disagree with illegal immigration? That is BS. My wife has brown skin from the PI, came here on a green card over 30 years ago and naturalized at the first occasion allowable by immigration law, afraid of brown skin holds no water!

Tawnos:Sure, if they're robbing, raping, or otherwise causing social problems, then punish them for violating those laws. ME: they are robbing and rapping and causing social problems, they cause divide in American society, and they cause financial burden on social programs with all the free shit they receive on tax payer dollar (they don’t contribute to). And yes they are breaking the law (immigration law) as well as every jack ass that hires them, so yes punish them all and send back the ones we catch.

imported post

I am going to bring this topic back to an open carry topic, but still reply to some concerns stated here.

Legal aliens and people who immigrant here legally should be granted all the freedoms and rights of americans living here. That includes carrying firearms. Now why was it Washington had decided not to do this for awhile? Was it possibly because a flood of illegal immigration was making it hard for the state to determine who was here legally or not? Also how do you background check these folks.

People use racism as a tool now days to push policies and agendas and tolabel others who don't agree with their opinion. I think that is wrong. If I see someone properly open carrying a firearmregaurdless oftheir race. I am going to assume they are a law abidingperson like myself, even if I don't agree with all the laws.

Criminal orginizations are setting up cells all over the southwest and its spreading, most of these cells are from south of the border. Look Pheonix had 370 kidnappings last year, second in the world only to Mexico city. I am starting to see gang signatures all over whatcom county with the number 13 in them, not just here and there buteverywhere. Look for it in your area, these are gangs affiliated with mexican mafia or with ms-13 a salvadorean gang. And guess what? most of the victims of these gangs are legal immigrants from south of the border. Makes me want to go campaign to get guns into the hands of more of our legal aliens and immigrants.