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Thread: Almost cleared leather...I mean plastic

  1. #1
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    Left the house about 45 minutes ago to take the dog for her final walk around the block. We were 3/4 of the way back home whenshe alerts on something coming out of a yard about 50 yards away. I can tell its eithera balcksharpe or pit bull and itsin a full out charge. We step to the side just as itreaches usand it overshoots by about 8 to 10 feet.Pretty clear at this point that this is not a friendly dog just coming over to say hi. I grab the pistol, push down on the retention buttonbut don't draw just yet. Out of the corner of my eye I see a 10 or 12 year old kid running towards us yelling the dog's name frantically. The dog snarls and growlsas it circles us for a moment then runs back towards its owner. This type of thing has happened several times before (an unleashed dog running towards us). Every other time,I could tellit was a friendly dog just coming over to say hi and wasn't too concerned. This time the dog was clearly in attack mode. Part of me says I would have been perfectly justified in shooting the dog during its charge (given the breed and the dogs body language) and part of me says I averted a major blowout with my neighbors by holding off. I hope the kid learned his lesson and realized he almost lost his pet tonight by not having it leashed. LEASH YOUR PETS!!!!!

    Oh and with respect to the chambered round versus empty chamber debate, my choice has been reinforced with tonights events.

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    yea good thing you didnt, its always a big deal when a family dog gets killed (even if it is threatening)

    law suits, pain and suffering, reimbursement for another dog, im sure they could pile on a bunch of crap. personally i would of pulled mine even if i did see the kids coming, show them how close their dog came to death... more than likely thatll teach them a far greater lesson about leashing them up

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    You waited too long to draw. The dog 'overshot' your pos... meaning it was 'there'.

    Had it attacked... you'd be havin' a problem.

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    It's funny how quickly your mind analyzes a situation. I could obviously tell this dog meant business and the thought occurred to immediately draw and shoot when it got within about 20 feet. Simultaneously though, you're thinkingof how you would explain your actions considering the dog hadnot made any actual contact. I suppose the line in my mind was drawn atcontact....biting my dog or myself. Sonora Rebel makes a good point in that if it got ahold of my right hand, I would not have been able to react. Something to think about.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    More like 10' or so... even tho it's moving. 20' isn't an immediatethreat... yet. (Not in court anyway).

    Now... extrapolate BG for dog. Hesitation may cost you. Problem is... we think too much... we're too civilized.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    More like 10' or so... even tho it's moving. 20' isn't an immediatethreat... yet. (Not in court anyway).

    Now... extrapolate BG for dog. Hesitation may cost you. Problem is... we think too much... we're too civilized.
    If the police use the 21 foot rule for a man with a knife (a man with a knife standing 21 feet away can cross the distance and stab you before you can draw and fire), then I would consider a dog, which can move faster than a man, a threat at 30 feet if it is running towards me in an agressive manner. I might wait until it reached 10 feet to actually fire, but I would be prepared ahead of time for the possibility.

    The OP should have drawn and been ready to fire as soon as it appeared that the dog was attacking. Use of deadly force (drawing and aiming) is a different prospect in regards to an attacking dog vs a person. A person may stop at the meer sight of a gun, a dog most likely will not.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    I didn't mean to imply 'fire' at 20'... but 'fire at 10'. Iwouldhave drawnbefore that.... when the threat was percieved.

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    I think you made the right split second decision, especially since your positive ID was that of K9, but if the Attack was unavoidable, or a instantaneous lunge, be prepared to offer your off hand. My little rover would have actually had to be in the agressors mouth before I'd shoot, you'd need some kind of proof after all and a rover scar should be an open /shut case.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    In AZ... you may shoot an attacking wild or domestic animal in order to defend yourself/livestock& pets. It doesn't have to bite you first. The livestock/pets was 'told' to me by Pima County Sheriff's... andI supposed it depends on locale. Out here... no questions asked. I'm tryin' to find the cite.



    “In self-defense or defense of another against an animal attack if a reasonable person would believe that deadly physical force against the animal is immediately necessary and reasonable under the circumstances to protect oneself or the other person.”


    Ok...

    Added by Shannon's law in 2000, §13-3107 allows shooting within cities in self defense or defense of another person against an animal attack, if a reasonable person would believe that it is immediately necessary and reasonable to protect yourself or the other person from the animal. This right to defend against an animal attack is also protected under the preemption law, §13-3108.

    Notice that says 'cities'. I do not live in a city (or even a town for that matter). So... I can pretty much use my own discretion as to 'why'.

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    I do not live in a city (or even a town for that matter).



    I saw a previous post of your neighbors.. Thats awesome!!

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    I think ya meant neighborhood. Yeah... I like it. Very... uh... Wild West... still. Gets 'dark' tho... heh!

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    I can't say that I would have done the same as you. If it was that close to biting me and aggressive, it most likely would be a dead dog. From what I have heard, lawsuits happen typically whenever you shoot your gun in defense, but in my eyes so be it. ( And I am a dog lover, have 3 myself).

    I just don't understand one thing, after years of owning dogs and different breeds from small to large, how do they become aggressive to hurt humans? I mean my dogs would lick you to death and that's about it, I really believe people train there dogs to attack and or mistreat them. Even pitbulls for that matter...




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    yea i honestly believe there is no such thing as a "bad dog" only those who have been trained by the wrong people. kinda like people too, most have bad parents (if any) but i show little to no sympathy for people because they still have a choice to change. but a dog i would have a REALLY hard time killing and would feel that the rest of my life. besides pit bulls are one of the nicest breed of dogs iv ever met, itd be my first choice if i ever got one

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    Does anyone know how well pepper spray works on an aggressive dog?

    I would hate to have to shoot a neighbor's dog. I lived in my home for 20 years and I know that all the good will that I have with my neighbors would be gone if I shot someone's family dog.

    I do understand that if there are no other options, the dog is going down.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    How much good will would there be if the family mutt gnawed on your legs/arms/hands... or da famb'ly jools?

    Oh... that's OK... the dog didn't 'mean it'. Meanwhile... there you are...

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    r6-rider wrote:
    yea good thing you didnt, its always a big deal when a family dog gets killed (even if it is threatening)

    law suits, pain and suffering, reimbursement for another dog, im sure they could pile on a bunch of crap. personally i would of pulled mine even if i did see the kids coming, show them how close their dog came to death... more than likely thatll teach them a far greater lesson about leashing them up
    Perhaps you can find similar instances of the owner of an attacking dog which was shot in self defense successfully bringing a lawsuit? I've never heard of it, it seems pretty clear cut case of self defense.
    Having carried for around ten years now and with more then my fair share of close calls and clearing leather a few times ( without shooting ) I would say the OP did the right thing. There is hardly a stronger bond then the one between "A boy and his dog"
    and you could have created an anti. We as armed people have a very serious duty
    to insure that our use of deadly force is absolutely last resort. PERIOD!


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