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Texas State Senator Jeff Wentworth (R - San Antonio) tells USA Today: He Opposes Open Carry
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
SA-TX
Centurion
imported post
Tex4OC wrote:
Those manufactured before 1899 (so 1898 is fine) can fire any type of ammunition. Replicas cannot use center fire or rim fire ammunition.
Pre-1899 carry is completely untested. The waters were muddied even further by the recently addedlanguage referencing "that may have, as an integral part, a ... ". It used to say, paraphrasing, "Firearm does not include an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899 or a replica ... ". The purpose was to exclude older weapons that had bayonetsor other long knives,short barrels, short stocks, etc. A sharp DA might try to say that "MAY HAVE" means "MUST have" and that a generic pre-1899 pistol or rifle won't qualify. Additionally, there is no definition for "antique or curio firearm". Do all pre-1899 firearms qualify or must there be something special about them?
Federal law may help some. An antique is defined there as being pre-1899 (can provide a citation if needed). These are exempt from the usual '68 GCA transfer and paperwork issues. It is completely legal to obtain them interstate and via the mail. No FFL or forms. "Curios and relics" under federal law, however, only have to be 50 years old or older. Those are still subject to transfer requirements but a C&R FFL (i.e. - a collector's license) can buy and sell them interstate.
In short, Texas law is a mess when it comes to older guns. Based on both the past and current state of the law, I believe -- but I'm not a lawyer -- that open carry of any pre-1899 firearm is perfectly legal. However, expect to be arrested, have to go to court and argue the case. I suspect that you'd win but given the consequences if you don't (you'd be convicted of at least a Class B misdomeanor, lose your CHL, etc.) I'm not prepared to be the test case. If I were an attorney myself, maybe.
Here's the exact section from the penal code:
Sec.46.01.DEFINITIONS.In this chapter:
(3)"Firearm" means any device designed, made, or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use. Firearm does not include a firearm that may have, as an integral part, a folding knife blade or other characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter and that is:
(A)an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899; or
(B)a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition.
[align=left][/align]
Tex4OC wrote:
Those manufactured before 1899 (so 1898 is fine) can fire any type of ammunition. Replicas cannot use center fire or rim fire ammunition.
Pre-1899 carry is completely untested. The waters were muddied even further by the recently addedlanguage referencing "that may have, as an integral part, a ... ". It used to say, paraphrasing, "Firearm does not include an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899 or a replica ... ". The purpose was to exclude older weapons that had bayonetsor other long knives,short barrels, short stocks, etc. A sharp DA might try to say that "MAY HAVE" means "MUST have" and that a generic pre-1899 pistol or rifle won't qualify. Additionally, there is no definition for "antique or curio firearm". Do all pre-1899 firearms qualify or must there be something special about them?
Federal law may help some. An antique is defined there as being pre-1899 (can provide a citation if needed). These are exempt from the usual '68 GCA transfer and paperwork issues. It is completely legal to obtain them interstate and via the mail. No FFL or forms. "Curios and relics" under federal law, however, only have to be 50 years old or older. Those are still subject to transfer requirements but a C&R FFL (i.e. - a collector's license) can buy and sell them interstate.
In short, Texas law is a mess when it comes to older guns. Based on both the past and current state of the law, I believe -- but I'm not a lawyer -- that open carry of any pre-1899 firearm is perfectly legal. However, expect to be arrested, have to go to court and argue the case. I suspect that you'd win but given the consequences if you don't (you'd be convicted of at least a Class B misdomeanor, lose your CHL, etc.) I'm not prepared to be the test case. If I were an attorney myself, maybe.
Here's the exact section from the penal code:
Sec.46.01.DEFINITIONS.In this chapter:
(3)"Firearm" means any device designed, made, or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use. Firearm does not include a firearm that may have, as an integral part, a folding knife blade or other characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter and that is:
(A)an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899; or
(B)a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition.
[align=left][/align]
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
'Far as I know nobody 'made' cap 'n ball anything after 1873. There was no market... no point. The 1851 .36 Navies and 1860 .44 Armies etc were being converted to ctg.
There were huge advances in firearms in just a bit over 30 years after the Civil War... all over. You can find 'modern' replicas' in Cabela's catalog... up to the huge Walker Colt .44 horse pistol for 'reasonable'. Each cylinder is loaded individually, then capped with a primer over the firing nipple.
Note that rim fire and center fire metallic ctgs are a no-no.
That said... I would not stake my life on any SAA pistol for self defense in the 21st Century. If you just want'a carry 'open'to 'make a statement'... That's up to you. Personally, I wouldn't do it... not w/o a CC'dmodern BUG in Texas.
'Far as I know nobody 'made' cap 'n ball anything after 1873. There was no market... no point. The 1851 .36 Navies and 1860 .44 Armies etc were being converted to ctg.
There were huge advances in firearms in just a bit over 30 years after the Civil War... all over. You can find 'modern' replicas' in Cabela's catalog... up to the huge Walker Colt .44 horse pistol for 'reasonable'. Each cylinder is loaded individually, then capped with a primer over the firing nipple.
Note that rim fire and center fire metallic ctgs are a no-no.
That said... I would not stake my life on any SAA pistol for self defense in the 21st Century. If you just want'a carry 'open'to 'make a statement'... That's up to you. Personally, I wouldn't do it... not w/o a CC'dmodern BUG in Texas.