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While I was in Colonial Heights......

T Dubya

T Dubya

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I stopped by Dance's Sporting Goods in Colonial Heights today. They had a really cool Para Long Slide 1911 I was checking out when I heard one of the salesman tell some prospective gun buyers that open carry was illegal in the City of Richmond and in Alexandria.

This guy said he was an instructor and he was in the know. I told him about preemption. I am officially a 2nd amendment activist snob. I hear the stupidest stuff at gun shows and gun counters.
 
K

kenny

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You would think the Bubba capital of the south would have known better. Too bad whoever gave this person their Instructor class, could not also revoke it. Perhaps that should be considered.
 
T Dubya

T Dubya

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While I was going back and forth with this guy I told him that Open Carry is now legal in state parks, but not in National Parks. I told them that you can conceal carry in National Parks.

Everyone at the store looked at me like I had two heads.They had no idea. I think my fervant manner took them by surprise. My threshold limit value for the steady stream of bullshit I hear from know-it-alls at gun counters had been exceeded.

I told them about Dan and how we do not tolerate those jurisdictions that have not bought into preemtion.
 
Neplusultra

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T Dubya wrote:
While I was going back and forth with this guy I told him that Open Carry is now legal in state parks, but not in National Parks. I told them that you can conceal carry in National Parks.
Click to expand...
*I* did not know this!!! It is now legal to OC in state parks? It used to not be. And if so is it not now legal to OC in national parks in VA? I thought the new fed rules were to mirror state park rules for the state the national park is in?
 
T Dubya

T Dubya

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Neplusultra wrote:
T Dubya wrote:
While I was going back and forth with this guy I told him that Open Carry is now legal in state parks, but not in National Parks. I told them that you can conceal carry in National Parks.
Click to expand...
*I* did not know this!!! It is now legal to OC in state parks? It used to not be. And if so is it not now legal to OC in national parks in VA? I thought the new fed rules were to mirror state park rules for the state the national park is in?
Click to expand...

SNIP from a VCDL Mini-Alert 12/4/2008

**********************************************
2. ACTION ITEM: Contact Governor on open carry in State Parks
**********************************************

"As you know, the Attorney General opined recently that Virginia State Parks CANNOT ban or control the lawful carry of handguns, including open carry (concealed carry is already OK)."



Seems like to me open carry in a state park is a grey area. The rule prohibiting open carry may not be legal and might not be able to be enforced.
 
Neplusultra

Neplusultra

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T Dubya wrote:
Neplusultra wrote:
T Dubya wrote:
While I was going back and forth with this guy I told him that Open Carry is now legal in state parks, but not in National Parks. I told them that you can conceal carry in National Parks.
Click to expand...
*I* did not know this!!! It is now legal to OC in state parks? It used to not be. And if so is it not now legal to OC in national parks in VA? I thought the new fed rules were to mirror state park rules for the state the national park is in?
Click to expand...

SNIP from a VCDL Mini-Alert 12/4/2008

**********************************************
2. ACTION ITEM: Contact Governor on open carry in State Parks
**********************************************

"As you know, the Attorney General opined recently that Virginia State Parks CANNOT ban or control the lawful carry of handguns, including open carry (concealed carry is already OK)."



Seems like to me open carry in a state park is a grey area. The rule prohibiting open carry may not be legal and might not be able to be enforced.
Click to expand...
I always thought that rule was crazy due to preemption. But say it is invalid, how does that affect the national park rule???
 
T Dubya

T Dubya

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Richmond, Va, ,
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Neplusultra wrote:
T Dubya wrote:
Neplusultra wrote:
T Dubya wrote:
While I was going back and forth with this guy I told him that Open Carry is now legal in state parks, but not in National Parks. I told them that you can conceal carry in National Parks.
Click to expand...
*I* did not know this!!! It is now legal to OC in state parks? It used to not be. And if so is it not now legal to OC in national parks in VA? I thought the new fed rules were to mirror state park rules for the state the national park is in?
Click to expand...

SNIP from a VCDL Mini-Alert 12/4/2008

**********************************************
2. ACTION ITEM: Contact Governor on open carry in State Parks
**********************************************

"As you know, the Attorney General opined recently that Virginia State Parks CANNOT ban or control the lawful carry of handguns, including open carry (concealed carry is already OK)."



Seems like to me open carry in a state park is a grey area. The rule prohibiting open carry may not be legal and might not be able to be enforced.
Click to expand...
I always thought that rule was crazy due to preemption. But say it is invalid, how does that affect the national park rule???
Click to expand...


When I typed conceal carry in National Parks, I am referring to National Parks in Virginia.
 
TFred

TFred

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Neplusultra wrote:
T Dubya wrote:
Neplusultra wrote:
T Dubya wrote:
While I was going back and forth with this guy I told him that Open Carry is now legal in state parks, but not in National Parks. I told them that you can conceal carry in National Parks.
Click to expand...
*I* did not know this!!! It is now legal to OC in state parks? It used to not be. And if so is it not now legal to OC in national parks in VA? I thought the new fed rules were to mirror state park rules for the state the national park is in?
Click to expand...

SNIP from a VCDL Mini-Alert 12/4/2008

**********************************************
2. ACTION ITEM: Contact Governor on open carry in State Parks
**********************************************

"As you know, the Attorney General opined recently that Virginia State Parks CANNOT ban or control the lawful carry of handguns, including open carry (concealed carry is already OK)."

Seems like to me open carry in a state park is a grey area. The rule prohibiting open carry may not be legal and might not be able to be enforced.
Click to expand...
I always thought that rule was crazy due to preemption. But say it is invalid, how does that affect the national park rule???
Click to expand...
The National Parks rule that was just changed specifically tries to apply only to concealed carry. However, the rule is so poorly written, you are just as required to carry your gun loaded as you are to carry it concealed. At least that's how I read it, along with a few others here and there... :)

Nobody is volunteering to be a test case for OC though.

TFred
 
wylde007

wylde007

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Va Beach, Occupied VA
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T Dubya wrote:
As you know, the Attorney General opined recently that Virginia State Parks CANNOT ban or control the lawful carry of handguns, including open carry (concealed carry is already OK).

Seems like to me open carry in a state park is a grey area. The rule prohibiting open carry may not be legal and might not be able to be enforced.
Click to expand...
I don't know, it is just as apparent to me as it is that they CANNOT restrict you from carrying in any government building or other PUBLIC place.

State parks are public land and therefor (by my understanding) owned by the PEOPLE of Virginia and subject to the same laws and provisions as any other properties of the PEOPLE.

2¢
 
T Dubya

T Dubya

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wylde007 wrote:
T Dubya wrote:
As you know, the Attorney General opined recently that Virginia State Parks CANNOT ban or control the lawful carry of handguns, including open carry (concealed carry is already OK).

Seems like to me open carry in a state park is a grey area. The rule prohibiting open carry may not be legal and might not be able to be enforced.
Click to expand...
I don't know, it is just as apparent to me as it is that they CANNOT restrict you from carrying in any government building or other PUBLIC place.

State parks are public land and therefor (by my understanding) owned by the PEOPLE of Virginia and subject to the same laws and provisions as any other properties of the PEOPLE.

2¢
Click to expand...


I agree with you 100%. There still is a rule in place that you can not open carry in a public park. Reading the Attorney General's Opinion I am convinced the rule is un-enforcable.

It looks like to me that the rule will not be overturned even though itisun-enforcable. What we need is a real go-getter. Someone that is not afraid to stick theire neck out to be a test case.

I need to get with Danbus and see if he wants to do some flounder fishing with me at the State Park in Cape Charles. Then we can get this illegal rule overturned by the courts.
 
wylde007

wylde007

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Va Beach, Occupied VA
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I'm the RO (Race Organizer) for a regatta to be held at First Landing in May. I would OC for sure... except when I'm on the committee boat!

Though, last year I think I saw a park ranger a total of twice over a three-day weekend. The only opportunity for a confrontation would be with another patron (unlikely) or going to the park visitor center, which is also unlikely.
 
KBCraig

KBCraig

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T Dubya wrote:
I hear the stupidest stuff at gun shows and gun counters.
Click to expand...
It's practically a universal truth: anything said by anyone working a gun show table or gun store counter, is 80% BS. (The rest is outright lies.)

Before I let my C&R FFL lapse, I was regularly amazed at the astounding level of ignorance displayed by Type 01 FFLs. On one occasion (and only one!), I had two youngish fellows at a shop (one was the manager) admit they didn't know much about C&R, but they patiently listened while I explained, and they read the regulations when I showed them my copy of the ATF regs.

Then they agreed with what it said, and did the FFL-FFL transfer, instead of insisting on a 4473 and NICS. It was an interstate deal on a C&R handgun, so I'm glad they did. (It was such a killer deal that I'd have bought it even if I'd had to have it transferred to a Texas dealer.)
 
D

dng

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, , USA
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T Dubya wrote:
I stopped by Dance's Sporting Goods in Colonial Heights today. They had a really cool Para Long Slide 1911 I was checking out when I heard one of the salesman tell some prospective gun buyers that open carry was illegal in the City of Richmond and in Alexandria.

This guy said he was an instructor and he was in the know. I told him about preemption. I am officially a 2nd amendment activist snob. I hear the stupidest stuff at gun shows and gun counters.
Click to expand...
I've been wanting to stop by Dance's to check their prices. I guess I have another reason to go now: my gun needs to go for a walk, and I would love to do a little talking to this salesman. Hopefully he's got his facts straight now, but I'm sure it would still blow his mind having an OCer in his store.
 
Nelson_Muntz

Nelson_Muntz

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kenny wrote:
You would think the Bubba capital of the south would have known better. Too bad whoever gave this person their Instructor class, could not also revoke it. Perhaps that should be considered.
Click to expand...

It might have been easier for T Dubya to simply state: 'If you want familiarity, technique and safety instruction, hire a shooting instructor. If you want to know the law, hire an attorney'.

Sorry ProShooter, and other instructors. This seems to be a general rule, and is certainly not all encompassing.
 
V

VaGunTrader

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I was just in there Friday buying a holster. Itsurprises me that some people don't know the rules and laws pertaining to guns especially when they make a living selling them.

I'm sure that ForestDancewould not be happy knowing that his people are giving wrong info and advice to their customers.

Perhaps you should write to them and let him know what happened so that he can get his people educated. They've got a nice place and I can't really say anything bad about them. They've been around for some time. They started out in Petersburg probably back in the late 70s - early 80s.

http://www.dancessportinggoods.net/index_files/Page323.html

570 Southpark Boulevard

Colonial Heights, VA 23834
 
B

builtjeep

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I took my CCW class there, and got the same BS from their instructor about open carry in richmond. Actually, he stated that neither open OR concealed were legal in the city of richmond. When I insisted that state preemption had overridden those regulations he basically told me that I should give it a try, but don't be surprised when I get arrested and have my guns and permit seized.

My GF also got a rash of cr@p the other day for talking about concealed carry purses. The guy at the counter went off on a rant about how that will just get your gun stolen and instead she should not wear skimpy clothes so that she can conceal IWB like normal people do. (She dresses conservatively BTW, so he was way off base to begin with) He didn't want to hear any part of her explaination that even very modest womens clothing doesn't leave much room for adequately concealing a gun of effective caliber.

You meet some real pieces of work behind gun store counters.
 
T Dubya

T Dubya

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VCDL President wrote:
State Parks have not yet changed their regulations banning open carry. I am working on this, but I don't have any info yet.
Click to expand...

Open carry at Harborfest was illegal. Open carry at waterside was illegal. We saw how that worked out.

Doesn't open carry at a state park share similarities with these cases because of preemption? The attorney general says the rule is wrong. If someone were to be arrested for open carry in a park couldn't they win in a court case?
 
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