Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Driving through Wichita. Open carry in the Car?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Red Lodge, MT & Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    73

    Post imported post

    Hello folks. Have a queston on open carry in a vehicle while driving the Interstates in KS. Is(loaded) open carrylegal, even when driving through a city which pre-empts? (such as Wichita)

    Thanks for any reply, I have 2 CHL's - neither honored by KS - and just not used to this OC with restrictions case.
    StaySafe,
    MG
    NRA Certified Instructor

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manhattan, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    309

    Post imported post

    Unfortunately, not in Wichita. You would need a permit recognized by the state of Kansas to be able to openly carry in your car while passing through that city.

    Where are you planning to travel through? That would help a lot. The western half of the state has fewer restrictions than the eastern half does.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Red Lodge, MT & Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    73

    Post imported post

    Thank you very much for the reply.

    1 ~ 2 time a year we drive a R/T between Montana and Florida. If we take a route through KS, we drive I-70 from CO to Salina, I-135 from I-70 to I-35, and I-35 to OK. My MT (resident) CHL and my FL (non-resident) CHL are valid the entire trip (goingthe KS rout) Except KS.So there is a (loaded) weapon in the car. If we RON, I can deal with that, and don't mind unloading & caseing (we NEVER stay in the bad part of town). But I hate like heck to have to unload (especially the one in the chamber) while the car is doing 70 on the outskirts of Whereever, unless I have to (to be within the law).

    Thanks very much for sharing your info.
    StaySafe,
    MG
    NRA Certified Instructor

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    MountainGator wrote:
    Is (loaded) open carrylegal, even when driving through a city which pre-empts? (such as Wichita)
    You mean "which has a gun ban," right?

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Red Lodge, MT & Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    73

    Post imported post

    Ahhh, you might be right, I don't know. I was under the assumption that Open Carry is legal in the State of Kansas, Expect where Localities (cities) pre-empt that right. That's what the maps on this sight tell me, KS has partial pre-emption. Another thread here states that Wichita "pre-empts" this right, so if you equate that to a ban, then I see your point.

    I'm just a simple MountainGator who can and does carryhis S&W 460V Concealed in many of the 40 some (or so) states in which I am Licenised (to do so), but unfortunately, that doesn't include the lovely state of Kansas.
    StaySafe,
    MG
    NRA Certified Instructor

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    MountainGator wrote:
    Ahhh, you might be right, I don't know. I was under the assumption that Open Carry is legal in the State of Kansas, Expect where Localities (cities) pre-empt that right. That's what the maps on this sight tell me, KS has partial pre-emption. Another thread here states that Wichita "pre-empts" this right, so if you equate that to a ban, then I see your point.

    I'm just a simple MountainGator who can and does carryhis S&W 460V Concealed in many of the 40 some (or so) states in which I am Licenised (to do so), but unfortunately, that doesn't include the lovely state of Kansas.
    You got it - you need a KS concealed permit to overcome preemption in KS but only works in your car!!

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    113

    Post imported post

    I'm not following all this. What does a KS permit have to do with OC? If I come into Topeka from KC, MO and have a MO permit I know I'm good on CCW but how does the permit allow me to OC in my car through a city that denies the right to OC otherwise?

    Also, for 60 to 90 minutes of your day you could go around the metro area by using KS state blacktops and avoid the city ban altogether.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Red Lodge, MT & Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    73

    Post imported post

    captainamerica wrote:
    I'm not following all this. What does a KS permit have to do with OC? If I come into Topeka from KC, MO and have a MO permit I know I'm good on CCW but how does the permit allow me to OC in my car through a city that denies the right to OC otherwise?

    Also, for 60 to 90 minutes of your day you could go around the metro area by using KS state blacktops and avoid the city ban altogether.
    Well, I concluded that that poster was trying to convey that if one had a CHL honored by Kansas, that one did not have to worry about local city preemption. I assume that if you have a CHL that KS honors you can CCW in a car, and it does not have to be OCW (in a vehicle). But of course that is my dilemma. I am a resident of the Great State of Montana - and a member of the Montana State Militia, but for some reason, Kansas does not honor Montana CHL's and Kansas ONLY honors Resident CHL's, so without changing my residence, I can notCCW in KS.

    I think you point is CA, that IF you have a valid CHL and you OC (lay that Colt Python right up there on the dashboard) and then drive through a city which preempts, that if your weapon is seen, you will probably get stopped, since how does the LOE know that you possess a CHL valid in KS?

    Anyhow, you suggestion to look for a route 'around' is a good one. The other alternative that I have is to Exit the FW (before entering the city limits) unload & secure, and then Exit the FW again after leaving the city limits and reload.

    The main reason that we carry while on the road is for Rest Stops... ya never know what you are going to find there, and last fall,considering all the rest stops from the Florida boarder to central Montana, we saw exactly One Security car (in over 5000 miles on two different routes).

    So my second question to the good Kansas folks here is: Can you OC intothe building(s) at a Rest Stop on the Interstate in KS, provided that the rest stop is not within the city limits of a city that bans?

    Thanks everyone for sharing your information.


    StaySafe,
    MG
    NRA Certified Instructor

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manhattan, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    309

    Post imported post

    Basically, you can open carry in KS, but local laws can be more restrictive than state law - that is, a city can pass a law banning open carry. Wichita is one of those cities. You can open carry without a permit but if a locality bans it, then you're out of luck. The exception is you can open carry in your car anywhere in the state, but you must have a permit recognized by the state of KS to do so.

    Can you OC into the building(s) at a Rest Stop on the Interstate in KS, provided that the rest stop is not within the city limits of a city that bans?

    Yes, that is correct.

    Also, the "No Guns" signs in KS do carry legal weight, unlike other states. This should only apply to concealed handguns; however, I would err on the side of caution when those signs are present due to issues with the intentions of the sign.

    MountainGator, I'd like to express my apologies that KS will not recognize your permit(s). Our state legislature is really anal about these things, and our governor has not been friendly to our cause.

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    Walleye wrote:
    Basically, you can open carry in KS, but local laws can be more restrictive than state law - that is, a city can pass a law banning open carry. Wichita is one of those cities. You can open carry without a permit but if a locality bans it, then you're out of luck.
    Except inside a vehicle - concealed permit holders may open carry inside a vehicle, local laws notwithstanding.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manhattan, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    309

    Post imported post

    Mike wrote:
    Walleye wrote:
    Basically, you can open carry in KS, but local laws can be more restrictive than state law - that is, a city can pass a law banning open carry. Wichita is one of those cities. You can open carry without a permit but if a locality bans it, then you're out of luck.
    Except inside a vehicle - concealed permit holders may open carry inside a vehicle, local laws notwithstanding.
    Hence:

    The exception is you can open carry in your car anywhere in the state, but you must have a permit recognized by the state of KS to do so.
    Albeit minus the part about not needing a permit if the locality doesn't ban it.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Red Lodge, MT & Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    73

    Post imported post

    Walleye wrote:
    Basically, you can open carry in KS, but local laws can be more restrictive than state law - that is, a city can pass a law banning open carry. Wichita is one of those cities. You can open carry without a permit but if a locality bans it, then you're out of luck. The exception is you can open carry in your car anywhere in the state, but you must have a permit recognized by the state of KS to do so.

    Can you OC into the building(s) at a Rest Stop on the Interstate in KS, provided that the rest stop is not within the city limits of a city that bans?

    Yes, that is correct.

    Also, the "No Guns" signs in KS do carry legal weight, unlike other states. This should only apply to concealed handguns; however, I would err on the side of caution when those signs are present due to issues with the intentions of the sign.

    MountainGator, I'd like to express my apologies that KS will not recognize your permit(s). Our state legislature is really anal about these things, and our governor has not been friendly to our cause.

    Thanks very much for all your information.

    I don't know why KS does not recognise MT, because MT recognises KS. It could be the age issue. In MT you can get a CWP at 18, and a few years back there were several states that blanket would not recognise a MT permit because of that. But that has changed (at least in some places) such as FL, which now will recognise a MT permit provided the holder is 21+.

    But here's the (somewhat) absurdity of different state laws... I read in a different thread (on this page) (and I believe that I was reading your post Walleye, bicbw) that in Kansas,if part or all of the weapon is visible (i.e. NOT concealed) then that is considered Open Carry. The absurdity is that in MT, if part or all of the weapon is concealed by clothing it is Concealed Carry! So using an IWB holster (or just sticking it inside your wasteband) with a tucked in shirt (AND NO JACKET)is Open Carry in KS and Concealed Carry in MT! Go Figure!

    Anyhow, as I now understand it, in KS, If I'm carrying in a hoslter that is clearly visable I can get out of the car and go into the men's room atan Interstate rest area... provided that I'm not inside the limits of a city that bans Open Carry, and that no one has posted a no weapons sign at the entrance of the building.

    But here's one more question for you good folks... If I have Nothing in the chamber, no magazine in the pistol, but a loaded magazine and the empty pistolin a locked container, can I then drive through Wichita without violating the Ban? I.e. what I am trying to understand is the given that I have a weapon and ammunition in the car, what it the minimum that I have to do (tothe weapon) not to violate the Local Law Whe I drive through Whicita on I-135 & I-35?

    Thanks again & StaySafe everyone.

    StaySafe,
    MG
    NRA Certified Instructor

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Manhattan, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    309

    Post imported post

    I don't know why KS does not recognise MT, because MT recognises KS. It could be the age issue. In MT you can get a CWP at 18, and a few years back there were several states that blanket would not recognise a MT permit because of that. But that has changed (at least in some places) such as FL, which now will recognise a MT permit provided the holder is 21+.
    I think it's actually due to the training requirement. KS requires you to go through an 8 hour course and then qualify, in addition to the 21+ rule. If MT doesn't have the same or more training requirement, that's probably it. You only have to be 18 to OC in KS though. :?

    But here's the (somewhat) absurdity of different state laws... I read in a different thread (on this page) (and I believe that I was reading your post Walleye, bicbw) that in Kansas, if part or all of the weapon is visible (i.e. NOT concealed) then that is considered Open Carry. The absurdity is that in MT, if part or all of the weapon is concealed by clothing it is Concealed Carry! So using an IWB holster (or just sticking it inside your wasteband) with a tucked in shirt (AND NO JACKET) is Open Carry in KS and Concealed Carry in MT! Go Figure!
    MS has the same requirement as MT - if it's partially concealed, it's considered concealed. In KS, if part of the gun is plainly visible (ie, the whole grip), then it's considered open.

    Anyhow, as I now understand it, in KS, If I'm carrying in a hoslter that is clearly visable I can get out of the car and go into the men's room at an Interstate rest area... provided that I'm not inside the limits of a city that bans Open Carry, and that no one has posted a no weapons sign at the entrance of the building.
    This is correct, although I'd like to reiterate the signage only applies to carrying concealed - but at the same time, the intent of the sign is clear: they want that building to be used as a criminal OK zone. Sucks, but the law is written so that we can get into quite a lot of trouble if we violate said zone.

    But here's one more question for you good folks... If I have Nothing in the chamber, no magazine in the pistol, but a loaded magazine and the empty pistol in a locked container, can I then drive through Wichita without violating the Ban? I.e. what I am trying to understand is the given that I have a weapon and ammunition in the car, what it the minimum that I have to do (to the weapon) not to violate the Local Law Whe I drive through Whicita on I-135 & I-35?
    Yes, this is legal. It doesn't even have to be a locked container - it just has to contain the firearm and the ammo must be stored separately.

    Have you considered changing your route west of Wichita? I understand the trip might be longer, but Wichita is not exactly a great place to move through.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Red Lodge, MT & Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    73

    Post imported post

    Walleye,

    You are probably right on the training.I'm fortunate enough that in every state that I have ever had a CWP, they have happily accepted my DD-214, and a copy of my orders the last time I qualified Combat Expert with a .45 ACP, so I really don't have any idea what the training is here in MT. The issue may really be the "legal aspect" training (DF/YoF), idk.

    Yes, I saw that on MS. We will be in Starkville for a Football game next Oct., and there's a guy from Starkville on another forum that I have PMed a few times. Course the good news (for me) is MS recognizes my MT & FLCWP.

    As for routing aroundWichita. We actually didtheI-35, I-135, I-70 route last Nov., and really didn't find Wichita that bad, either from a trafficora section of townrouting standpoint. We try to plan all our rest & gas stops so that we do NOT exit the FW in urban areas, & I'm not really concerned about a drive by on the FW (if that happens, my carrying probably won't help much). But like I posted above,"Out in the Middle of Nowhere" rest areas are a concern for us. I have carried a wheel gun in the past,but now have a really nice little Ruger LCP, and I'll just stop some where before Wichita and clear the chamber, and then drop the Magand case it when I hit exit xx, and then uncaseand insert on the other side of town, and take care of the chamber at the next stop. And do the same thing if we RON in KS, which we did in Salina last Nov.

    Thanks again for ALLthe info from you (our Favorite Fish ) and everyone else!

    StaySafe



    StaySafe,
    MG
    NRA Certified Instructor

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    113

    Post imported post

    Where is the KS state law reference that allows a KS citizen with a CCL to OC in the vehicle anywhere in the state? I didn't recall there was such a law allowance; hence my earlier response. Technically it doesn't matter to me b/c I am from MO but have recently seen job postings in KS that sounded interesting and would require me to relocate across the border.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •