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Thread: Employee rights: keeping a firearm in vehicle.

  1. #1
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    I do hope someone can help. I work for an employer who has an anti-gun policy regarding having a gun on the premises, and are trying to push it to Your vehicle also. They can't do that in Arizona, can they. They have a placard in the reception area on the security desk saying no weapons allowed on these premises. Wasn't there something in Florida, between a husband and wife vs, Disneyworld. Security noticed a gun in the couples car in the parking lot, and they were promptly fired. They sued saying it was their right to carry in that state, and won.

    Thanks in advance for your input.

    Tony

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    I don't know what the statutes are in Arizona on this, but regarding the incident you refer to in Florida, if someone can see a firearm inside your car from outside, it's not stored properly. If you have to leave you firearm in your vehicle it should be well concealed from view, otherwise you are inviting a breakin of your vehicle.

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    My side arm is well out of view. I'm just worried about possible vehicle searches. Due to the nature of the business I work for( confidential) they are thinking, of random searches. And a slew of layoff's has not helper either.

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    If they are that anal have you thought about a new job? Just food for thought.

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    My employer has a Policy Directive stating no firearms at work, or on any premises owned by employer. Where I park my vehicle is in a security gated, locked fenced lot so I don't really have too many worries about having a firearm locked safely in my car. They (the employer) have not stated that they will be responsible for my safety to and from work and wherever I came from or are going to after work, so I will continue to keep it in my BOG in the car when at work. Period.

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    Let me explain, My company is not actively looking for weapons. It does look to see if any confidential or proprietary property that has been pilfered. firearm are an afterthought.

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    I just looked throught the Arizona Statutes and couldn't find anything on leaving firearms in vehicles in parking lots.

    I would think that if your empoyer is concerned with employees smuggling "confidential or proprietary" items out of the building they would search you as you exited the building.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I don't know what the statutes are in Arizona on this, but regarding the incident you refer to in Florida, if someone can see a firearm inside your car from outside, it's not stored properly. If you have to leave you firearm in your vehicle it should be well concealed from view, otherwise you are inviting a breakin of your vehicle.
    Is "stored properly" a statutory requirement in the Florida case? If not, it is not relevant.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    wrightme wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I don't know what the statutes are in Arizona on this, but regarding the incident you refer to in Florida, if someone can see a firearm inside your car from outside, it's not stored properly. If you have to leave you firearm in your vehicle it should be well concealed from view, otherwise you are inviting a breakin of your vehicle.
    Is "stored properly" a statutory requirement in the Florida case? If not, it is not relevant.
    What I meant by "stored properly" was "well hidden from view". If noone can see the firearm from outside the vehicle, they won't know it's there.

    No reference to legal statute, just a little common sense.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I would think that if your empoyer is concerned with employees smuggling "confidential or proprietary" items out of the building they would search you as you exited the building.
    And that they do. The weapons thing, is my only concern. We go thru more stringent security leaving work than TSA gives you in an airport. I am most interested if they can do anything to me by having a sidearm in my vehicle, when they say it is prohibited on the premises. I want some case law to back me up just in case I get pinched. The security head wants periodic searches of vehicles. I hope the company won't give it to them. it has been an on going battle.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    wrightme wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I don't know what the statutes are in Arizona on this, but regarding the incident you refer to in Florida, if someone can see a firearm inside your car from outside, it's not stored properly. If you have to leave you firearm in your vehicle it should be well concealed from view, otherwise you are inviting a breakin of your vehicle.
    Is "stored properly" a statutory requirement in the Florida case? If not, it is not relevant.
    What I meant by "stored properly" was "well hidden from view". If noone can see the firearm from outside the vehicle, they won't know it's there.

    No reference to legal statute, just a little common sense.
    So storage is irrelevant to statute and legality. Common sense to keep it hidden, but unless it is a statutory requirement, it doesn't affect legality.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    dreamcro wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I would think that if your empoyer is concerned with employees smuggling "confidential or proprietary" items out of the building they would search you as you exited the building.
    And that they do. The weapons thing, is my only concern. We go thru more stringent security leaving work than TSA gives you in an airport. I am most interested if they can do anything to me by having a sidearm in my vehicle, when they say it is prohibited on the premises. I want some case law to back me up just in case I get pinched. The security head wants periodic searches of vehicles. I hope the company won't give it to them. it has been an on going battle.
    I think it depends on how Arizona statutes define "premises". Many states define premises as being "within a building or dwelling". Parking lots normally fall under the definition of "Porperty".

    Is the parking lot where you work fenced in with a manned gate? If so, have you seen any notices at the gate prohibiting firearms past the gate?

    I only looked in the Statute Chapter regarding firearms and didn't find anything there on this. I didn't look in any of the other chapters.

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    The only signage is when you enter the building, none upon entering the parking or secured parking.

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    I had the same issue with my previous employer. They were having issues with some employees stealing prototype parts and decided to start searching vehicles leaving the premisis. They once came upon my gun safe under the seat. When asked what was in it, I told them nothing. Which was true.

    I opened it once in the 3 years I worked there. And thats all it took. After the initial check of the box, they didnt bother asking anymore.I eventually started storing my sidearm there.

    Its definately a sticky situation. Controversial as well.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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    Since I'm waiting on my CPL I started to do some ivestigation into my companies policy regarding weapons. I'm not concerned with carrying inside the office. But I want it with me for travel to and from. So here is what is stated in the handbook

    10.02 Possession of Weapons and Violent Acts

    No employee may possess or use a loaded firearm or other weapon on****** property at any time.

    Fighting or otherwise attempting to injure or injuring another person, whether or not during

    business hours or on**** property, is unacceptable.


    The way I read it it would mean that if it's unloaded I'm okay. All I'm looking to do it lock it in my car while I'm there.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
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    We're pushing a parking lot pre-emption bill here in Utah.

    Would allow us to keep a firearm stored in the vehicle while at work, and not get fired for it.

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    I worked for a company who allowed NO firearms on their property.

    I informed them that my kids had orders to sue them if I was hurt or killed at work, on the way to work, or on my way home.

    They found a place for us to store our weapons.

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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    Ive never understood this topic!

    If you have a Firearm in your Vehicle at work How will your Employer Find out ?

    Do Employers have some kind of Judicial Powers to Search your Vehicle, I doubt it.

    Even if they Called the Police, they Also would have to have Probable Cause!



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    The sign at my employer's gate asserted their right to search your vehicle. Agree or don't park there. They did indeed bring in dogs and searched at times.

    I did manage to NOT get caught even though a dog "hit" on my truck. The searchers found ammo and nothing else.

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    This just came through my email from the NRA. Does anyone know whether this is Nationwide or just Oklahoma?



    "Fairfax, Va. – Today, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled unanimously in support of allowing employees to store legally owned firearms in locked, private motor vehicles while parked in employer parking lots. This decision upholds NRA-backed legislation passed in 2004.



    “This is a victory for the millions of American workers who have been denied the right to protect themselves while commuting between their homes and their workplace,” said NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre. “This effort was aimed at skirting the will of the American people, and the intent of legislatures across this country while eviscerating Right-to-Carry laws. This ruling is a slap at the corporate elitists who have no regard for the constitutional rights of law abiding American workers.”



    In March 2004, the Oklahoma legislature passed an amendment holding employers criminally liable for prohibiting employees from storing firearms in locked vehicles on company property. A number of corporations subsequently filed suit in opposition to the new laws, alleging they were: unconstitutionally vague; an unconstitutional taking of private property; and preempted by various federal statutes. The lower court ruled in favor of the injunction.



    “This issue was contrived by the gun control lobby who goaded corporations into doing their dirty work for them,” said Chris W. Cox, NRA chief lobbyist. “However, this ruling is a vindication for every hardworking and lawful man and woman whose basic right to self-defense was taken away on a whim by corporate lawyers. NRA is prepared to defend this right and to ensure the safety of every American worker.”



    In October 2008, Oklahoma Gov. Brad Henry and Attorney General Drew Edmondson appealed to the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals the lower court decision to strike down the NRA-backed worker protection laws. Today’s proceedings handed down by Circuit Judges Paul J. Kelly, Bobby R. Baldock, and Michael W. McConnell reversed the lower court’s grant of a permanent injunction"



    http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/News....aspx?ID=12135

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    I'm thinking Oklahoma as Kentucky already has this law. It's going state by state??????

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    Luckily, I live in New Mexico; where the vehicle is a direct extension of the home and counts as private property even when on another entity's premesis. This is one of the things that makes NM a gold state for OC.

    My company tried to istitute regular vehicle checks for firearms and drugs, but was quickly quashed by their lawyers.

    Every state has different laws and you should, of course, learn them as well as you can. (I keep a printed copy of handgun regulations and legislature in the vehicle, just in case)

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    TheMrMitch wrote:
    The sign at my employer's gate asserted their right to search your vehicle. Agree or don't park there. They did indeed bring in dogs and searched at times.

    I did manage to NOT get caught even though a dog "hit" on my truck. The searchers found ammo and nothing else.
    I may be wrong about this but I don't believe a private company has any authority to search your vehicle. They do not carry the power of law. They can terminate your employment for refusing, however. And if they strong suspect your car might contain proprietary company property, they can call the police. But I'm pretty sure they cannot force you to let them search your vehicle nor detain you for such.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Southern Boy....correct in my case. Allow searches or terminate. And they did search.

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