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Thread: Please help me understand...

  1. #1
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    After months of reading posts on this Forum, I am disturbed by one recurring theme; people's hesitance to always be willing to exercise their 2A right. To paraphrase, I have read statements such as "I OC, but when my kids are around, I CC", or "I CC sometimes so the anti's don't go crazy", etc. We are a nation of Constitutional Law. The Bill of Rights is absolute, people. Most of us would not hesitate to use out 1A Right to express out opinion. Most of us would not hesitate to assert our 5A Right to not incriminate ourselves in court. Why then are we not equally vigilant about our 2A Right to keep and BEAR arms? The 2nd Amendment is the most important right we have, in that it is the vessel we use to guarantee we will have the ability to preserve our other rights. It is our God Given Right,Federal Constitutional Right, Arizona Constitutional Right, and Right by State Law to OC. We need to all carry these written laws around with us for educational purposes, and to Cover our butts, should we have an uneducated LEO encounter. We should all carry recorders with us at all times when OC'ing, so that a LEO can not falsely accuse us of criminal activity, or "forget" a detail that would help our case. Most importantly, we should not feel guilty, nervous, hesitant, or unreasonable for OC'ing everywhere we are legally allowed to go. If this makesthe uneducated masses uncomfortable, that is their problem, not mine. I will not surrender any of my liberties to appease another. I hope you all feel the same way. This is still America, folks.

  2. #2
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    I whole heartedly agree.

  3. #3
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    i agree too. lucky for me im at the point where idgaf because im shipping in 2 weeks and will never see any of the people i piss off, ever again

  4. #4
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    Why dont we use that right? Because the media and Hollywood has painted us as raving vigilantes. Even in "good guy" cop movies the good cops shoot up everything in sight, mowing down countless bad guys. In the news all you hear is Columbine and VT and the mall shooting. You dont hear about how many lives they save. You hear about how many people accidently kill themselves. Or the Million Mom March where they paint the picture of children killing themselves by the score every day. Look when Cheney shot a fellow hunter it was all over the news.

    That is we are seeing our brothers and sister in the cause arrested for simply having a firearm on there hip. That is why when people have to choose between the looks and possibly being hassled by the police for carrying openly they see it as a no brainer and stick it in a pocket, or pull shirt tails down over it.

    The media contantly harps about right of the press and free speech so it is commonly expected to speak up, speak your mind. All you hear about with guns is who died or what massacre happened. When you tell someone you are carrying to help prevent the next massacre the sheeple of america see you as the threat, not the solution.

    What can we do to turn this idea around? I dont know... Show responsibility, hand out pamphlets.

    But do you notice when someone uses a firearm to STOP an incident? Do you see it all over the news and in the papers. No, you dont. Its not what the media or even some people want to hear.

    Even if my neighbors shun me they will be safer for having me. In my area it is not seen in a good light at all. But then again I live right where the Dickson City arrest went down so that gives you a good view of our area.

  5. #5
    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    All I can say is that I OC, unless I'm planning to go someplace that is either gun unfriendly (ie: Costco) or just plain a no-no (restaraunt that serves alcohol). In those cases I will throw on an overshirt and 'casual carry'.

    I only truly CC when I'm somewhere where being asked to leave would ruin the day (Phoenix Zoo, for example, which is an 1 1/2 hour drive for me).

  6. #6
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    AZkopper wrote:
    All I can say is that I OC, unless I'm planning to go someplace that is either gun unfriendly (ie: Costco) or just plain a no-no (restaraunt that serves alcohol). In those cases I will throw on an overshirt and 'casual carry'.

    I only truly CC when I'm somewhere where being asked to leave would ruin the day (Phoenix Zoo, for example, which is an 1 1/2 hour drive for me).
    Ditto this. Also, as an enlisted AD USAF member, I am a bit more limited in the scope of my expressions. I don't get paid enough or have enough me-timeto fight costly court battles andbeing distracted from my aircraft maintenance work could be costly toothers lives. In the meantime, until I retire, I do what I can.Tailgate stickers on my truck, NRAand AZCDL stickers in the windows. Support all good legislation effortsby letter and e-mail. Volunteer occasionally for AZCDL booth at local gun shows. I OC everywhere I legally can when off duty, and CC most of the rest.Take all my troops shooting, stressing safety, laws and activism.

    Almost anticlimactically, I have never had a problem here in Tucson. The most notice anyone ever took was a Fry's clerk,(mid-50's to 60's female) who congratulated me on using my rights and had a snide comment for a California transplant who had recently squawked about another OC person, and today while furniture shopping, the Texas transplant salesman asked if I had a licence. We ended up buying $2K of items from him, and may well go back for more tomorrow.



  7. #7
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Arizona is a gun culture. The social mo re's that exist here are pre-existing back to the Spanish Grandee's... which pre-dates the Pilgrims. I'vetraveled 'heeled' here since 1966. There was no talk of OC or CC... you were 'heeled' or ya were not. Normally... that was OC. I only got a CWP within' the past three years. 'Didn't need it 'til I finally bought a Aussie drovers duster for the monsoons.

    I can't say enuff about the attitude toward OC in Arizona. By native born, LEO's (State and Federal)... 'cept maybe those airport weenies.

    I think it's difficult for non-'Zonies to conceptualize this kind'a 2A freedom Yeah... there's placesyou should use some discretion in the cities... and carryin' heeled inna bar 'n such is verboten. That may change.

    Seein' as how you're a former Californian... I can understand your hesitancy... trepidation... whatever. I've lived there too (San Diego, Coronado, Long Beach, China Lake.) I came from Maryland... where the 2A barely exists... and does not exist at all beyond your own home or business. Even that's restricted.

    The culture in Arizona is totally different. The prevailing attitudes are different. There's no need to carry anything 'cept the CWP if you're concealed. You need not be paranoid about it at all. This is my adopted state.I left whatever attitudes formulated by Maryland's peculiar tyranny and that whole middle Atlantic 'east coast' thing behind me.

    Nobody has ever asked me 'where I'm from'.It's assumed I'm a native... or maybe a West Texian. I'm a modern cowboy... vaquero. Oddly... I've never been self-conscious of carrying in Arizona or New Mexico.It's just 'done'.



  8. #8
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Arizona is a gun culture. The social mo re's that exist here are pre-existing back to the Spanish Grandee's... which pre-dates the Pilgrims. I'vetraveled 'heeled' here since 1966. There was no talk of OC or CC... you were 'heeled' or ya were not. Normally... that was OC. I only got a CWP within' the past three years. 'Didn't need it 'til I finally bought a Aussie drovers duster for the monsoons.

    I can't say enuff about the attitude toward OC in Arizona. By native born, LEO's (State and Federal)... 'cept maybe those airport weenies.

    I think it's difficult for non-'Zonies to conceptualize this kind'a 2A freedom Yeah... there's placesyou should use some discretion in the cities... and carryin' heeled inna bar 'n such is verboten. That may change.

    Seein' as how you're a former Californian... I can understand your hesitancy... trepidation... whatever. I've lived there too (San Diego, Coronado, Long Beach, China Lake.) I came from Maryland... where the 2A barely exists... and does not exist at all beyond your own home or business. Even that's restricted.

    The culture in Arizona is totally different. The prevailing attitudes are different. There's no need to carry anything 'cept the CWP if you're concealed. You need not be paranoid about it at all. This is my adopted state.I left whatever attitudes formulated by Maryland's peculiar tyranny and that whole middle Atlantic 'east coast' thing behind me.

    Nobody has ever asked me 'where I'm from'.It's assumed I'm a native... or maybe a West Texian. I'm a modern cowboy... vaquero. Oddly... I've never been self-conscious of carrying in Arizona or New Mexico.It's just 'done'.

    I couldn't agree with you more, Sonora. I DON'T mind transplants to AZ, as I am one myself. I DO mind transplants that want to transplant their stupid laws to this state. It amazes me how many East Coasters and Californians move here, and then complain about "all those guns", or "it's like the wild west here". If you don't like our culture, THEN LEAVE, and take your $5 Coffee with you!

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