Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34

Thread: Engel and an "assault" weapons ban

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Kennewick, WA, ,
    Posts
    119

    Post imported post

    Washington, D.C.--Congressman Eliot Engel, Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, wrote a letter signed by 53 Members of Congress urging President Obama to “return to enforcement of the law banning imports of assault weapons, which was previously enforced during the administrations of Presidents George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton.” The letter was also led by Congressman Michael Castle (R-DE) and Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY).

    “The alarming prevalence of imported assault weapons in the US has put our nation’s police officers at risk. Returning to the Bush 41/Clinton enforcement of the ban on imported assault weapons will protect our brave police forces and all people throughout New York and the United States,” said Rep. Engel.

    Engel added that returning to enforcement of the imported assault weapons ban is “a no-brainer that would require no legislative action.”

    In recent years, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has quietly abandoned enforcement of the import ban (which was authorized by provisions in the 1968 Gun Control Act and enforced by Presidents George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton). As a result, the civilian firearms market is flooded with imported, inexpensive military-style assault weapons, primarily from former Eastern bloc countries including Romania, Bulgaria and the former Yugoslavia. Importers are also able to skirt the restrictions by bringing in assault weapons parts and reassembling them with a small number of US-made parts. Assault weapon “parts kits” for assembly by individuals are also being imported. ATF has further weakened the prohibition by placing certain extremely problematic assault rifles on the "curios or relics" list, making certain firearms automatically eligible for importation.

    "Our failure to enforce restrictions on imported assault weapons is affecting our bilateral relationship with Mexico," said Rep. Engel. "We must do more to support our friends in Mexico whose drug war is fueled by firearms flowing south from the United States, many of which should never have entered the US in the first place.”

    5,661 people died in Mexico in 2008 alone as a result of drug-related violence. This is more than double the 2007 total of 2,773. Over 90% of firearms confiscated yearly in Mexico orginate in the United States. As Chairman of the House Western Hemisphere Subcommittee, Rep. Engel is a strong supporter of the Merida Initiative – a US-Mexico security partnership announced in late 2007. However, he also believes that the US must fulfill certain domestic obligations under the Merida Initiative, including an enhanced commitment to curb the illegal trafficking of firearms from the US into Mexico.

    The full text of the letter and signatories are below:

    Dear Mr. President:

    We write to urge you to return to enforcement of the ban on imported assault weapons, including those that are fully manufactured abroad as well as those imported as parts, which was previously enforced during the administrations of Presidents George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton. We believe that this issue has important implications for domestic public safety, homeland security, and our bilateral relationship with Mexico.

    In the last eight years, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has almost completely abrogated the ban on imported assault rifles. This ban – first established nearly 20 years ago – was authorized by provisions in the 1968 Gun Control Act allowing ATF to prohibit the importation of firearms and ammunition that are not “particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.” The import restriction is independent of the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, and was not affected by its “sunset” in 2004.

    The ban on assault weapon imports was first enforced by the George H.W. Bush Administration in response to growing threats to law enforcement personnel from the increased use of assault weapons by drug traffickers and in mass shootings, like the Stockton schoolyard massacre in 1989. The import restrictions were later strengthened in 1998 by the Clinton Administration to address foreign manufacturers that were evading the ban by making minor cosmetic changes to their weapons. The definition was changed to include any assault rifle with the "ability to accept a detachable large capacity magazine originally designed and produced for a military assault weapon.”

    Unfortunately, in recent years, ATF has quietly abandoned enforcement of the import ban. As a result, the civilian firearms market is flooded with imported, inexpensive military-style assault weapons from primarily former Eastern bloc countries including Romania, Bulgaria and the former Yugoslavia. Importers are also able to skirt the restrictions by bringing in assault weapons parts and reassembling them with a small number of US-made parts. Assault weapon “parts kits” for assembly by individuals are also being imported. ATF has further weakened the prohibition by placing certain extremely problematic assault rifles on the "curios or relics" list, making certain firearms automatically eligible for importation.

    The noxious results of reversing long-established policy extend beyond our borders and are directly affecting our foreign policy. Assault weapons are being smuggled in bulk from U.S. border states to Mexico where they are used by narco-traffickers to fuel a drug war that is killing Mexican law enforcement and other officials at alarming rates.

    The violence in Mexico has reached crisis proportions. In December, Mexican Attorney General Eduardo Medina Mora reported that the total number of organized crime-related homicides in 2008 had reached 5,700, more than double the previous record of approximately 2,700 set in 2007. The 2008 total includes 944 people killed in November alone, the deadliest month in Mexico’s history, in terms of drug violence. In addition, the Attorney General confirmed that nearly 15 percent of the victims of the violence were members of law enforcement or the military. He also projected that the country’s drug violence has not yet peaked, and is expected to continue during the first few months of 2009. When the Merida Initiative was announced in October 2007, the George W. Bush Administration made a commitment to “intensify efforts” to combat the trafficking of guns from the U.S. into Mexico. A return to the enforcement of the ban on the import of all assault weapons would help us to live up to this commitment.

    Not only is the violence in Mexico already spilling over the border into the U.S., but the prevalence of imported assault weapons in the hands of criminals has made “officer survival” a critical issue for many urban law enforcement agencies. The Miami Police Department has reported a steep rise in the number of murders and other crimes committed with assault weapons; a Romanian WASR-10 (AK-type) assault weapon was used to kill two Fairfax, Virginia police officers in 2006; a Romanian WASR-10 assault weapon was used in a mass shooting that left eight dead at a mall in rural Omaha, Nebraska in 2007. The Associated Press conducted an analysis showing that the number of AK variants traced to crime by ATF has increased from 1,140 in 1993 to 8,547 in 2007.

    These are just the sort of incidents and statistics that prompted the George H.W. Bush Administration to take action to halt assault weapons imports in 1989, and we believe demonstrate the importance of returning to enforcing the import ban once again.

    We ask that you direct ATF to act in accordance with the 1968 Gun Control Act and return to enforcing the ban on the import of all assault weapons, both those that are fully manufactured abroad as well as those imported as parts. By restoring these important restrictions, we will be able to help reduce violence here in the United States, while also sending an important signal to our friends in Mexico. Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.

    Sincerely,

    Eliot L. Engel (D-NY)
    Michael N. Castle (R-DE)
    Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY)
    Gregory Meeks (D-NY)
    Christopher Smith (R-NJ)
    Alcee Hastings (D-FL)
    Jerrold Nadler (D-NY)
    Nita Lowey (D-NY)
    Joseph Crowley (D-NY)
    Bob Filner (D-CA)
    Barbara Lee (D-CA)
    Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)
    Ellen Tauscher (D-CA)
    Louise Slaughter (D-NY)
    Bill Pascrell (D-NJ)
    Marcy Kaptur (D-OH)
    David Price (D-NC)
    Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-DC)
    Edward Markey (D-NA)
    Chaka Fattah (D-PA)
    Jim Moran (D-VA)
    Robert Wexler (D-FL)
    Earl Blumenauer (D-OR)
    Brad Sherman (D-CA)
    Jan Schakowsky (D-IL)
    Gary Ackerman (D-NY)
    Henry Waxman (D-CA)
    Jose Serrano (D-NY)
    John Conyers (D-MI)
    Nydia Velazquez (D-NY)
    Rosa DeLauro (D-CT)
    Loretta Sanchez (D-CA)
    John Olver (D-MA)
    Betty McCollum (D-MN)
    Rush Holt (D-NJ)
    Linda Sanchez (D-CA)
    Albio Sires (D-NJ)
    Betty Sutton (D-OH)
    Donna Christensen (D-VI)
    Raul Grijalva (D-AZ)
    Sam Farr (D-CA)
    Jim McGovern (D-MA)
    Lois Capps (D-CA)
    Allyson Schwartz (D-PA)
    Patrick Kennedy (D-RI)
    Michael McMahon (D-NY)
    Donna Edwards (D-MD)
    Tim Bishop (D-NY)
    Pete Stark (D-CA)
    Doris Matsui (D-CA)
    Zoe Lofgren (D-CA)
    Paul Tonko (D-NY)
    Mazie Hirono (D-HI)

    http://engel.house.gov/

  2. #2
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Herington, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    1,005

    Post imported post

    Them Dems are sure movin fast. And did we expect anything less? Now, I wonder if they'd provide statistics that these weapons are the weapons of choice for criminals in this country? Sorry, but screw Mexico, they can't even control their own Government and police that are "on the take" from the drug cartels.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    Abjure the realm. It is time to exercise the 2nd Amendment for it just and rightful purpose - return of the government to the people.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Alexandria, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    2,290

    Post imported post

    That little phrase "Traced to crime" is SO infuriating. The weapons were NOT 'traced" to a crime, they were found as a result of a crime investigation and were traced TO THE ORIGINAL BUYER who may or may not have been a criminal. But it's an effective little turn of phrase that puts guns, crime, and a link between them into three nice short words.

    That BATFE would permit the illegal import of a weapon and open sale of same is not credible at all. These legislators seem to have a rather loose grip on reality.

    And of course, lots of THEM can be "traced to crime" in a very real sense; and yet who does anything about THEM?? (This little head-slam guy is really getting a workout of late isn't he?)

  5. #5
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    Alexcabbie wrote:
    That BATFE would permit the illegal import of a weapon and open sale of same is not credible at all. These legislators seem to have a rather loose grip on reality.
    That they feel they have the authority to enforce this unconstitutional edict is not credible.

    All of these alphabet agencies are intended to control and usurp, nothing else.

    The gummint is the great architect of NEWSPEAK.

    Slavery is freedom.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  6. #6
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Herington, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    1,005

    Post imported post

    I'm also curious? Does Mexico have no weapons imports? And so what makes them think that all of these weapons are coming from here? Also, I'm betting that a bunch of illegals are stealing these weapons and takin em down there, also,,I'm betting that the weapons being used are NOT semi-auto military style "assault weapons. The Socialists will use any excuse to get their agenda thru'. In 93 when I was stationed at Ft Bliss they had a four square block area that the Juarez police and Mexican Army had cordoned off and let the gangs blast away at each other,, after about 6 days they went in and mopped up.
    Sitting here cleaning my weapons, chanting the Declaration of Independence, waiting to see, one if by land two if by sea.
    Keep your powder dry!
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

  7. #7
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Alexandria, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    2,290

    Post imported post

    wylde007 wrote:
    Alexcabbie wrote:
    That BATFE would permit the illegal import of a weapon and open sale of same is not credible at all. These legislators seem to have a rather loose grip on reality.
    That they feel they have the authority to enforce this unconstitutional edict is not credible.

    All of these alphabet agencies are intended to control and usurp, nothing else.

    The gummint is the great architect of NEWSPEAK.

    Slavery is freedom.
    Memphis to St. Joe.

    While I agree that the abrogation of the 2nd Amendment (and any other part of the Constitution that the out-of-control Federal government finds inconvenient) is detestable and that the Feds MUST be brought to heel ASAP, I do NOT advocate going out and shooting up the place. When we fire upon Fort Sumter, it is war. When Fort Sumter fires on US, it is then self-defense. Until then we must use the political process to try and effect this goal PEACEFULLY!!!

    As I have stated before, there are more than gun rights at stake here. These folks are what I call "Type Two" Antis, who are interested in "gun control" as "people control". Their hero, Mao theDong, spoke one great truth in his life: "political power grows from the barrel of a gun". They take the gun away and they then have all power to themselves.

    Fortunately their greed for power knows no bounds, and there is talk of for instance banning or legally limiting consumption of beef on the grounds that cow farts contribute to so-called "global warming". Even the Type One antis (who for the most part merely want to live in safety or the illusion thereof) will eventually chafe at this grab for ever more control of the individual. This in part is our political hope.

    In addition I would caution that there are agents provocateurs roaming the net and making inflammatory statements to try and draw out the most extreme amongst us in order to paint us all as a bunch of nuts who desire to overthrow the established order violently. So dial it back a bit , Double-Aught. Nobody but a madman actually prays for what I call "THE DAY" to come. In that Day there will be bloodshed, and when I carry a firearm (and what the Antis cannot or will not understand) it is to PREVENT bloodshed.

    SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS


  8. #8
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    Alexcabbie wrote:
    When we fire upon Fort Sumter, it is war. When Fort Sumter fires on US, it is then self-defense. Until then we must use the political process to try and effect this goal PEACEFULLY!
    The firing on Fort Sumter was orchestrated and specifically designed to give Lincoln the excuse he needed to invade the South. South Carolina demanded that the federal garrison vacate the premises and return the fort to its rightful stewards and jurisdiction - The sovereign state of South Carolina.

    When the federals refused to oblige the lawful demand of the owner of said property, they were forced to evict the squatters.

    There are a lot of federals occupying a lot of rightful states' property.

    Unless you haven't been paying attention, I think it's pretty plain to see that the political process has catastrophically failed the people. While I, too, wish for a peaceful solution to (and separation from) the usurpation of our liberty by the beast, I firmly believe that an exercise of our 2nd Amendment rights may be forthcoming.

    Alexcabbie wrote:
    SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS
    Now you're talking my language.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    , Nevada, USA
    Posts
    716

    Post imported post

    As a result, the civilian firearms market is flooded with imported, inexpensive military-style assault weapons, primarily from former Eastern bloc countries including Romania, Bulgaria and the former Yugoslavia.
    Where exactly is this flood of "imported, inexpensive military-style assault weapons"? I haven't been able to find any of the weapons or the ammo to fire from them for a decent price since last summer.

  10. #10
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    405

    Post imported post

    Gordie wrote:
    As a result, the civilian firearms market is flooded with imported, inexpensive military-style assault weapons, primarily from former Eastern bloc countries including Romania, Bulgaria and the former Yugoslavia.
    Where exactly is this flood of "imported, inexpensive military-style assault weapons"? I haven't been able to find any of the weapons or the ammo to fire from them for a decent price since last summer.
    Maybe we can find some in Mexico?
    ROADTRIP!

  11. #11
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    Tekman wrote:
    As a result, the civilian firearms market is flooded with imported, inexpensive military-style assault weapons, primarily from former Eastern bloc countries including Romania, Bulgaria and the former Yugoslavia.
    Strange, I can only locate semi-automatic versions of these so-called "assault" weapons when I look.

    Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place...:?

    What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" do they not understand?
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Alexandria, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    2,290

    Post imported post

    Signatories "traced to crime":

    ALCEE HASTINGS: Impeached for BRIBERY!!



    JAMES MORAN: Spousal abuse, physical abuse of a child, public intoxication (never chrged or convicted but I DARE HIM TO SUE ME!)

    PATRICK KENNEDY: Driving while so ******* drunk he crashed into a security barrier, acquitted in criminal court but GO AHEAD AND SUE ME IN CIVIL COURT PAT AND YOU AND JIM WILL FIND OUT WHY RON GOLDMAN'S DAD IS THE FIRST JEW TO WIN A HEISHMAN TROPHY!!)

    Who knows any OTHER crimes these mooks can be traced to?

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Southeast, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    5,974

    Post imported post

    And so it begins. All but one is a democrat and almost all are northeast or west coast libs. Figures. Where is Donkey to tell us how the dems are not threat to our 2A rights?

    ETA: Screw Mexico and the bribed horse they rode in illegally on ... Build the fence and it will be better for everyone.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Scranton, Pa, ,
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    Gordie wrote:
    As a result, the civilian firearms market is flooded with imported, inexpensive military-style assault weapons, primarily from former Eastern bloc countries including Romania, Bulgaria and the former Yugoslavia.
    Where exactly is this flood of "imported, inexpensive military-style assault weapons"?* I haven't been able to find any of the weapons or the ammo to fire from them for a decent price since last summer.
    You'll have to stArt looking for different kinds of rifle and get em while you can. <--- that's why I picked up the 74 and I got a black rifle lined up too. It's the ammo that's hard to find. 7.62 is completly unavailable here. Mine fires 5.45 and at least here Is hugely abundant and very cheap.
    I had caught wind of another assault weapons ban and immediatley went and got one. The store owner hadn't heard anything so I gave him the bill number and he jumped on the phone and tried buying rifles but except for more 74s everything was unavailable. The bill fell through early though.
    Can they introduce a bill that won't grandfather in the rifles owned now? All the bills I've seen would have but can that be done at all?

  15. #15
    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Springfield by way of Chicago, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    536

    Post imported post

    If this bill ever gets to Obama, read the following and tell me if you think he will sign it into law:

    http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

    • Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
    • FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
    • Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
    • Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
    • 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
    • Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
    • Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
    • Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
    • Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
    • Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
    • Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
    I believe that the peoplewho wanted change when they voted for Obama are going to get exactly what they want on all fronts!!

    2nd Amendment............Use it.............Or, lose it!!:X
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

  16. #16
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    Smurfologist wrote:
    2nd Amendment: Use it... or lose it!!:X
    You do understand the implications of your statement, right?

    Using the second amendment, for the purpose of its design by the founding fathers, was to prevent tyranny in government.

    Shooting at clay targets and fighting for carry rights are not exercises of the 2nd Amendment. A proper exercise encompasses confronting the corrupt and criminal enterprise entrenched in the District and demanding that they relinquish their illegitimate claim to legislate beyond the limits imposed on them by the Constitution.

    Anything else is tilting at windmills.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Springfield by way of Chicago, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    536

    Post imported post

    wylde007 wrote:
    Smurfologist wrote:
    2nd Amendment: Use it... or lose it!!:X
    You do understand the implications of your statement, right?

    Using the second amendment, for the purpose of its design by the founding fathers, was to prevent tyranny in government.

    Shooting at clay targets and fighting for carry rights are not exercises of the 2nd Amendment. A proper exercise encompasses confronting the corrupt and criminal enterprise entrenched in the District and demanding that they relinquish their illegitimate claim to legislate beyond the limits imposed on them by the Constitution.

    Anything else is tilting at windmills.
    Wylde007, I respect the right to your opinion. But, I would suggest that you take a look at all of my post to understand why I end all of my post the way that I do. I end all of my post the same regardless of the topic. That is allI will say in reference to your post. God Bless America

    2nd Amendment..........Use it..........Or, lose it!!:X
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Alabama, ,
    Posts
    1,338

    Post imported post

    If we are importing these "assault rifles", then how can they be originating in the US?

    Now if Mexico would start encouraging the border patrol to shoot these drug/gun running thugs,
    insted of demanding we lock up the border patrol who do stop them. Then they might
    have an argument.
    Maybe call for the support of the patriots who patrol the border on there own dime.
    Insted of funding the lawyers who try and stop them.

    Why doesn't the government down there just call in an airstrike on the cartells?
    One blockbuster per city/town should do the trick.



  19. #19
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    Smurfologist wrote:
    Wylde007, I respect the right to your opinion.
    My statement regarding the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is only "opinion" if you are not a student of history.

    Smurfologist wrote:
    But, I would suggest that you take a look at all of my post to understand why I end all of my post the way that I do.
    I did not at first appreciate that as I have not read all of your previous posts. For that please accept my apology.

    [line]The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid.
    Novus Ordo Seclorum
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Springfield by way of Chicago, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    536

    Post imported post

    wylde007 wrote:
    Smurfologist wrote:
    Wylde007, I respect the right to your opinion.
    My statement regarding the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is only "opinion" if you are not a student of history.

    Smurfologist wrote:
    But, I would suggest that you take a look at all of my post to understand why I end all of my post the way that I do.
    I did not at first appreciate that as I have not read all of your previous posts. For that please accept my apology.


    [line]
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid.
    Novus Ordo Seclorum
    History is my worst subject (smile).

    I was not in any way being disrespectful; I do accept your apology (even though I feel you have nothing to apologize for). We are on the same team (promoting the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms).

    I was just thinking.......Maybe you can help me come up with a new signature (it's about time)..........Something that indicates that I support the2nd Amendment, and, I am against anyone that impede myability to protect myself (with a handgun).Do you have any suggestions?

    I appreciate your input, and, please continue with it going forward.

    2nd Amendment........Use it.........Or, lose it!!:X
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

  21. #21
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    What part of "Shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

    Charlton Heston is my President.

    The 2nd Amendment is not about hunting.

    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

    If Thomas Jefferson had believed in "common sense" gun laws we'd all still be wearing powdered wigs.

    A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

    These phrases: "right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumerations herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people" all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arm" refers to the state.

    The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created 130 years later, in 1917.


    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Springfield by way of Chicago, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    536

    Post imported post

    wylde007 wrote:
    What part of "Shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

    Charlton Heston is my President.

    The 2nd Amendment is not about hunting.

    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

    If Thomas Jefferson had believed in "common sense" gun laws we'd all still be wearing powdered wigs.

    A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

    These phrases: "right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumerations herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people" all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arm" refers to the state.

    The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created 130 years later, in 1917.

    That's deep.........How about the following:

    Life, Liberty, and my Beretta for Happiness!!:X

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    40

    Post imported post

    How about "My Beretta to protect my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" ?

  24. #24
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    USNRCorpsman wrote:
    How about "My Beretta to protect my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" ?
    The biggest problem with the entire prospect of the "pursuit of happiness" is that is was a compromise to the Hamiltonian school of thought in exchange for "property" which is what Jefferson and Madison preferred.

    Now the government can disoblige you your property because, well, there's no context for it in any founding document. And they bloody-well know it.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Springfield by way of Chicago, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    536

    Post imported post

    wylde007 wrote:
    USNRCorpsman wrote:
    How about "My Beretta to protect my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" ?
    The biggest problem with the entire prospect of the "pursuit of happiness" is that is was a compromise to the Hamiltonian school of thought in exchange for "property" which is what Jefferson and Madison preferred.

    Now the government can disoblige you your property because, well, there's no context for it in any founding document. And they bloody-well know it.
    Wow......This is harder than I thought it would be. What about:

    Justice for the 2nd Amendment........Preserved by my Beretta!!:X
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •