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oBAMA ADMINISTRATION MAKES IMPORTANT GUN POLICY STATEMENT!!

4armed Architect

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Obama often says and presents many things of which are only a charade for public consumption. His promise to have a 5-day wait before signing the stimulus bill and his first few appointments that had to be "excepted" from his new "No-lobbyists-in-my-administration" requirement are but a couple that come to mind.

Remember folks, it is not what he or his slobbering press says or presents that he will do that matters... it's what actually is being done, publicly or behind the scenes. Executive orders and regulatory rules can be very dangerous and are done pretty much out of the public light. Besides, the press refuses to call him on breaking any promise or plan of action, so he can SAY anything he wants and do the opposite without repercussions.

Incrementalism...Incrementalism...Incrementalism. It marches right along.

The vigilance of those on forums like these are extremely helpful in finding the truth of the matter. Good work all and thanks. Hey I think I see some lights in Boston's Old North Church tower. "The Baracks are coming. The Baracks are coming."
 

old dog

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Don't get too excited. Their concern is almost certainly the presidential prerogative rather than gun owners' rights.
 

wylde007

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4armed Architect wrote:
Executive orders and regulatory rules can be very dangerous and are done pretty much out of the public light.
And nowhere in the Constitution is there authority for such acts. Thanks to Lincoln, who invaded the South, not as an act of "declared" war (which only congress can do, and refused) the "executive order" has been used as a tool of tyranny over generations for Presidents to enact policy even if the legitimate representative government would not oblige.

It is despotism, pure and simple. It is not rule by law, but rule by mandate, without accountability or recourse by the people.

Executive orders are a scourge to republican government.

4armed Architect wrote:
Besides, the press refuses to call him on breaking any promise or plan of action, so he can SAY anything he wants and do the opposite without repercussions.
The press are fawning at his feet even as his idiot socialist policies blatantly usurp and bury this nation in a toxic cloud of international debt.
 

1stfreedom

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T Dubya wrote:
TFred wrote:
SNIP

Gun rights groups had lobbied hard for the rule change under Bush. When the administration issued the regulation in December, the National Rifle Association's chief lobbyist, Chris W. Cox, said the shift in policy "brings clarity and uniformity for law-abiding gun owners visiting our national parks
Chris Cox and the NRA can eat it. What did they do?






Friday, February 15, 2008




The current regulations on possession of firearms in national parks--which generally prohibit possession, carry or transportation of loaded or uncased firearms--were proposed in 1982 and finalized in 1983. Similar restrictions apply in national wildlife refuges. It is now time to amend those regulations to reflect the changed legal situation with respect to state laws on carrying firearms.

The effect of these now-outdated regulations on people who carry firearms for self-protection was far from the forefront at the time these regulations were adopted. As of the end of 1982, only six states routinely allowed average citizens to carry handguns for self-defense. Now, 48 states have a process for issuance of licenses or permits to carry firearms, and 40 of those states provide the opportunity for average citizens to legally carry firearms for self-defense.

Starting in 2003, NRA staff began meeting with officials at the U.S. Department of the Interior to change this regulation and allow state law to govern the carrying and transportation of firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges -- as it does in national forests and on BLM lands. There was little resistance to such a policy change but also little action to make this change. Bureaucrats involved in this issue would move on and others would replace them, needing to be educated from scratch about the need and importance for this change.

As the second term of the Bush administration began in 2005, there was more of a sense of urgency to get this regulation changed given the uncertainty of the outcome of the 2008 presidential election. NRA asked several key Members of Congress, by virtue of their leadership roles as committee or subcommittee chairmen, to write letters to then-Secretary of the Interior Gale Norton in support of this policy change. All of those letters went unanswered.

After the 2006 elections, NRA asked House Natural Resources Committee Chairman Nick Rahall (D-WV) and Ranking Member Don Young (R-AK) to write another letter in March of 2007 requesting revision to the Code of Federal Regulation (CFR) to apply state law regarding concealed weapons statutes in National Park Service (NPS) areas and National Wildlife Refuges. Eight months later, they finally received a “thanks but no thanks” response from National Park Service Director Mary Bomar and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Dale Hall.

In January of 2007, NPS Visitor and Resource Protection Associate Director Karen Taylor-Goodrich wrote in a letter that “(1) Parks are safe places,” “(2) 'Right to carry’ laws do not reduce crime,” and “(3) ‘Right to carry’ laws do not protect visitors from wildlife.”

On December 14, Senator Mike Crapo (R-ID) and 46 of his Senate colleagues (including eight Democrats) sent a letterto former Idaho Governor and now Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne asking for the restoration of the right of law-abiding citizens to carry a firearm for self-defense in national parks and wildlife refuges. (NRA-ILA initiated and worked closely with Senator Crapo on this letter.)

Two months later, there had been no response from Kempthorne. So on February 11, four more Senators sent another letterto Kempthorne requesting this same policy change. Now 51 Senators -- a majority of the upper chamber of the United States Congress -- have publicly sought this regulatory change.

Finally, Kempthorne appeared on February 13 before the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, and on February 14 before the House Natural Resources Committee, for the annual department oversight hearings. Members of both committees asked Kempthorne about the delay in responding to the letters from 51 Senators, and the Department’s position on allowing those with valid state licenses or permits, to carry firearms in national parks. Following his admission that some parks are unsafe due to drug trafficking, Kempthorne was pressed on the need to allow law-abiding citizens the opportunity to legally carry firearms in national parks for personal protection and whether he believed that Right-to-Carry doesn’t reduce crime.

Congress has rightly become frustrated over the years of inaction at Interior. Members of both houses have introduced legislation -- H.R. 5434 by Reps. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX) and Doug Lamborn (R-CO), and S. 2619 by Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) -- within the past week to change the policy relating to carrying and transportation of firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges.

The U.S. Congress and NRA are anxiously awaiting a response from the Interior Department.
 

old dog

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A quote attributed to Bill Clinton pretty well sums up the liberal attitude I think:

"Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Pretty cool, huh?"

It leaves us pretty defenseless, too.
 

Mr. Y

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Friday, February 15, 2008




The current regulations on possession of firearms in national parks--which generally prohibit possession, carry or transportation of loaded or uncased firearms--were proposed in 1982 and finalized in 1983. Similar restrictions apply in national wildlife refuges. It is now time to amend those regulations to reflect the changed legal situation with respect to state laws on carrying firearms.

The effect of these now-outdated regulations on people who carry firearms for self-protection was far from the forefront at the time these regulations were adopted. As of the end of 1982, only six states routinely allowed average citizens to carry handguns for self-defense. Now, 48 states have a process for issuance of licenses or permits to carry firearms, and 40 of those states provide the opportunity for average citizens to legally carry firearms for self-defense.

Starting in 2003, NRA staff began meeting with officials at the U.S. Department of the Interior to change this regulation and allow state law to govern the carrying and transportation of firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges -- as it does in national forests and on BLM lands. There was little resistance to such a policy change but also little action to make this change. Bureaucrats involved in this issue would move on and others would replace them, needing to be educated from scratch about the need and importance for this change.

As the second term of the Bush administration began in 2005, there was more of a sense of urgency to get this regulation changed given the uncertainty of the outcome of the 2008 presidential election. NRA asked several key Members of Congress, by virtue of their leadership roles as committee or subcommittee chairmen, to write letters to then-Secretary of the Interior Gale Norton in support of this policy change. All of those letters went unanswered.
That's very interesting. I can confirm contact with NRA-ILA in 2005, however none of it produced anything on behalf of the petitioners. Several times in fact. Interesting to note that one of my emails from NRA-ILA indicates that efforts to repeal the firearms bans are believed to be a 'done deal' (this was end of June '05).

From here, we don't see much. Petitioners again reached out to NRA-ILA in January of '06, February, and March. In April of '06, Jordan Austin asserted the same thing.

On April 26, 2006 I spoke directly to several senate offices, several house offices, and finally to ILA federal affairs. Once again we got the "done deal" and of note, ILA refused to endorse, co-sign, or otherwise acknowledge in any way VCDL's petition to amend the Parks rules.
After the 2006 elections, NRA asked House Natural Resources Committee Chairman Nick Rahall (D-WV) and Ranking Member Don Young (R-AK) to write another letter in March of 2007 requesting revision to the Code of Federal Regulation (CFR) to apply state law regarding concealed weapons statutes in National Park Service (NPS) areas and National Wildlife Refuges. Eight months later, they finally received a “thanks but no thanks” response from National Park Service Director Mary Bomar and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Dale Hall.

In January of 2007, NPS Visitor and Resource Protection Associate Director Karen Taylor-Goodrich wrote in a letter that “(1) Parks are safe places,” “(2) 'Right to carry’ laws do not reduce crime,” and “(3) ‘Right to carry’ laws do not protect visitors from wildlife.”

On December 14, Senator Mike Crapo (R-ID) and 46 of his Senate colleagues (including eight Democrats) sent a letterto former Idaho Governor and now Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne asking for the restoration of the right of law-abiding citizens to carry a firearm for self-defense in national parks and wildlife refuges. (NRA-ILA initiated and worked closely with Senator Crapo on this letter.)
Yes, the January, 2007 letters. We remember those well. For those that have forgotten, January 31st is KTG authored yet another one of her infamous parks are safe memos and denied the petitioners 1st petition to amend the Parks rules. It took a long time, because as 1st Freedom points out - NPS and DOI don't like to have to obey the law. Like FOIA for example. However, eventually, thanks to VCDL backing they responded to several petitioner FOIA requests for evidence to prove the assertions in their petition denial. This paid off because as Sec'y Kempthorneindicated in that video, they had none.

Interestingly, Crapo's office claimed to me that the Senate letterwas their idea and effort only and not to with any 'urging' or 'initiating'. I didn't press them on it, and frankly didn't really believe it largely because of what other Senate offices told me. No less than 8 Senate offices mentioned NRA-ILA with regard to the Senate letter(s) to DOI.
Two months later, there had been no response from Kempthorne. So on February 11, four more Senators sent another letterto Kempthorne requesting this same policy change. Now 51 Senators -- a majority of the upper chamber of the United States Congress -- have publicly sought this regulatory change.

Finally, Kempthorne appeared on February 13 before the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, and on February 14 before the House Natural Resources Committee, for the annual department oversight hearings. Members of both committees asked Kempthorne about the delay in responding to the letters from 51 Senators, and the Department’s position on allowing those with valid state licenses or permits, to carry firearms in national parks. Following his admission that some parks are unsafe due to drug trafficking, Kempthorne was pressed on the need to allow law-abiding citizens the opportunity to legally carry firearms in national parks for personal protection and whether he believed that Right-to-Carry doesn’t reduce crime.

Congress has rightly become frustrated over the years of inaction at Interior. Members of both houses have introduced legislation -- H.R. 5434 by Reps. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX) and Doug Lamborn (R-CO), and S. 2619 by Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) -- within the past week to change the policy relating to carrying and transportation of firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges.

The U.S. Congress and NRA are anxiously awaiting a response from the Interior Department.
That video of Kempthorne really drives home that they simply had no evidence to deny the first petition. He's flat footed, and cannot answer 'parks are safe' - which by the way, they know internally is a lie.

Here's the FOIA response confirming that they required you to absolve the goverment of any liability for your death or serious injury in some parks:

http://www.bighammer.net/timeline.html#02/06/08

Of all the news reports though, this is my favorite, when you can hear the absolute frustration of Congressman Jim Moran whenMary Bomar tells him that they're changing the rule because of VCDL's 2petitions

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88512175

:celebrate



Here's the thing though Chuck, all of this would be a non-issue, resolved for probably over a year now with no lawsuits pending or any of that nonsense if NRA-ILA had simply agreed to work with the 4 dozen petitioning groups. Numerous petitioners including Philip Van Cleave, myself and the heads of several other petitioning organizationsreached out to NRA-ILA to get this cooperation over the course of 4 years.

Here's a link to the letter requesting NRA-ILA join the 2nd petition. I don't recall what I did with the letter requesting support for the first petition though.

http://www.bighammer.net/images/021508_NRAILA_letter.pdf

We could've been done with this in 2006 or 2007if we'd gotten any kind of support from NRA-ILA then.

Even so, I applaud andsupport NRA-ILA's efforts both then and now. I certainly hope that next time NRA-ILA will work together with sportsmen, firearms enthusiasts, activists &grass roots groups rather than the previous approach.

I think the post you responded to shows the frustration of NRA members & activists who contacted NRA-ILA by the thousands over the course of 4 years requesting help with getting the regulations changed only to be met with responses like 'What VCDL petition?' and'What National Parks regulation change' when we had written responsesfrom ILA showing that ILA was aware of the effort.

Whatever the effort may be, all of us want and need NRA-ILA to step up and support efforts like VCDL's petition to amend the NPS weapons regulations. In the future, we look forward to working with NRA-ILA because we've shown that even in an unfriendly political climate we can win when we put our minds to it. When we work together, we'll win that much faster.
 

TFred

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Mr. Y wrote
Of all the news reports though, this is my favorite, when you can hear the absolute frustration of Congressman Jim Moran whenMary Bomar tells him that they're changing the rule because of VCDL's 2petitions

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=8851217
That is hilarious! It sounds like he's about to have a cow. I don't guess Moran will be joining the VCDL anytime soon...

TFred
 

1stfreedom

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Mr. Y,,

I wont disagree that things can almost always be done differently in hopes of better results.

I posted that for the benefit of "T Dubya" when asking " what did the NRA do" to imply that they did nothing!

And who the hell is "Chuck"?
 

Sonora Rebel

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I haf'ta drive thru or border a NP everyday. Saguaro NationalPark. It's the only way 'in/out' of here. That said...In this area , most everybody's heeled. It's usually in their truckor on 'em... but suffice to say NOBODY pays any attention to the 'no guns' crap. Particularly the 'dismantling' stupidity. What those politicos say in DC has no basis in reality here. There are no 'kiosks... entranceways or gates'. Just a sign indicating you are entering or leaving the park... and that depends often on which direction you're going. Not uncommon to see somebody on foot or horseback OC and with a lever gun or shotgun in a scabbard. They're not shootin' up the place... Never have.

It's rather obvious that some bureaurat in DC penned this stuff... as it addresses 'concealed' only. Then... it sez essentially IAW the laws of the 'State'. There's the 10A kickin' in. OC is the 'law' of the state in many states. Those who exist in these socialist cloisters... (DC, MD etc.) are often unaware that the 2A exists unimpeded in many areas outside their little bubbles.

The no guns thing was a result of poaching in the NP's during theGreat Depression. There are still people who have to transit parts of Yellowstone and other 'big game' areas still... They (as we here) are not gonna break down their shootin' irons with each trip to the store.

There's 15 times more violent crime NOW in the SW than there was in the Old 'Wild West'. The OK Corral incident became famous only in that it was extraordinary... even for Tombstone in October of 1881. All this stuff about the 'Wild West' compared to today is silly... 'cept for NDN predation. The Apache, Yaqui 'nAravipaiwere still a problem in the early 1880's. Now we've got Mexican Drug Gangs, Coyote human smugglers 'n Drug Runners... as well as the 'on foot' invaders of various intent.

The bureaurats in DC... 'LIE'. Eitherdeliberately or out of ignorance and denial... but they LIE! Those parks... such as Organ Pipe National Monument are NOT safe for tourists. That one in particular is a regular smugglers route. The web site for that one even sez so.

Wild critters... Some Dutch 'tourist' was wanderin' thru the Desert Museum 'n encountered a Javilina on the trail. 'Idiot tried to pet it. 'Course... the little porker tore his hand up... 'think it got him in the legs too. This ain't Disneyland. The Dutchman is trying to sue the Park. (Good luck with that.) In other areas... ya got bear, 'lion (cougar), coyotes, wolves 'n whatnot... Any 'Park' weenie sez these critters don't attack people ain't been readin' their mail.
 

old dog

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could someone post a plain-text version of the moran story. npr page is unreadable on my webtv. tnx
 

KBCraig

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old dog wrote:
A quote attributed to Bill Clinton pretty well sums up the liberal attitude I think:

"Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Pretty cool, huh?"

That was Clinton advisor Paul Begala, but the sentiment is the same.
 
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