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Thread: OC in Market Square

  1. #1
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    The wife has the car today and I'm wanting a cup of Starbucks coffee. I think the Starbucks in Market Square is closest for me. Hmm, looks like a field trip to Downtown Pittsburgh. Of course I'll be carrying a firearm with me.

    Public transportation from my home to FortDuquesne Inclinewill be CC. I'll walk from there to town OC. I want the exercise, I need the exercise. My new found ZRT friends are hot on my trail, wanting a Zombiehunt so I have to keep in shape. They're tough bastards.

    Well, with all joking aside I am a bit apprehensive about this. I know there will be those who will say "Why even try OC, you're asking for trouble.You're exercising poor judgement and justwant attention.You should just CC."

    Look, I'm a free man, or so I'm lead to believe. I am within my rights and the law. I justwant a simple cup of coffee and enjoy a walk in my home town while doing so. It's a beautiful day and I want to be around to enjoy many more. If any criminal element wishes to harm meI want the ability to either deter such elements or if need be defend myself against such elements.

    Though I considerthe PittsburghPolice to be amongthe finest Police Forces in our Nation I still cannot rely on them to be there in a moments notice.I am not rich and famous or a high ranking politician and cannot afford private security. I must rely on my wits and my right to bear arms.

    I'll let you guys know how it turns out.


    Note: Perhaps this thread would be best in the PA Stories from the States. I apologize.






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    We await the results with great anticipation...and a little bit of jealousy.

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    I just arrived home not more then 15 minutes ago.

    I'm going to relax a bit and collect my thoughts. My children will be home from school within the hour and I will as always greet them and make them something good to eat. Then, after things clam down a bit I'll attempt to covey my experience the best I can.

    In the mean time I'll give you this. I was approached by a LEO and hadfive other officers whichI could see within a one hundredfoot radius of my standing location. There were no officers that I seen in the area prior to my entering the Starbucks.













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    spawnbringer wrote:
    I was approached by a LEO and hadfive other officers whichI could see within a one hundredfoot radius of my standing location. There were no officers that I seen in the area prior to my entering the Starbucks.

    Flip on the news while you make the food. "Armed man's attempt to rob local Starbucks thwarted by police." Disclaimer: local police will neither confirm nor deny whether the man actually intended on robbing the coffee shop.

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    :what:LOL... get the hell out of here! Too funny.

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    *grabs popcorn*

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    Damn... I was writing it out while tending to the kids and just about donewith this event when the page expired. I lost the whole damn thing!



    I'm going to wait till the kiddos get to bed and start it over. On boy. I hate typing too.






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    cliff notes please

    Unless you're typing this in jail, it couldn't have been too bad.

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    spawnbringer wrote:
    Damn... I was writing it out while tending to the kids and just about donewith this event when the page expired. I lost the whole damn thing!



    I'm going to wait till the kiddos get to bed and start it over. On boy. I hate typing too.
    Type it in notepad, then copy/paste it in a post in the forum.

    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    What I post here is most of what happen. I did my best not to embellish. I did not note everything that transpired though I do try to convey the truth.

    I have mixed thoughts on this event and would, in hind sight do things a bit differently. Please understand that I think highly of our police but at the same time strongly disagree with many issue with LE that we face in todays society.



    As I came out of the coffee shop I observed two police vehicles on the opposite end of the square.

    I proceeded to walk toward the center of the square in hopes that my older daughter changed her mind and would surprise me with her arrival (I called her earlier to asked if she would like to meet in town for coffee but she declined).

    At this point I was standing next to a table and chair in the square which is provided for the public. I took a few sips of very hot coffee and opted not to walk and drink until it cooled a bit.

    Scanning my surroundings I now noticed twoLEO's about 20 meters on the side from the coffee shop standing there looking at me while another from my left was coming my way, though he seem to be just walking by and in fact he did.

    Moments later I noticed on my right a LEO making his way directly toward me with a look that had propose. He did not seem threatening and had his hands behind his back as if they were crossed.

    Now about 8 meters from me the Officer said something that was inaudible and I said "excuse me?"

    Now the Officer (M. Davis) moved just a few meters in front of me and we were face to face.

    Officer: "why do you have that gun" or "why are you carrying that gun?" I cannot recall which he did in fact said.

    Me: "for my protection".

    Officer: "ok, do you have ID?"

    Me: "yes"

    Officer: "can I see it?"

    Me: "I do not consent to this but I will comply" and before I was about to reach in my back pocket for my wallet the Officer pointed to my sidearm and said:

    Officer: "you don't have to touch that or take it out you just have to concea... er, keep it right there." He was about to say concealed.

    Me: "Ok, I understand and I would not touch it... I'm one of the good guys."

    Officer: "Well, that's what I'm about to find out."

    Me: "Why... Did I commit a crime or am I suspect of a crime?"

    Officer: "You have a gun."

    Me: "Yes I do. But how is that reason for you to approach me and ask for ID? Open carry is legal."

    Officer: "I enforce the law and that's what I'm doing. Someone in fear because you have a gun came to me and told me that you have a gun so it's my job to check it out."

    Me: "no law was broken"

    Officer: "that's what I'm going to find out."

    I hand him my Drivers Licence.

    Officer: "is this your current address?"

    Me: "yes it is"

    Me: 'Officer, am I being detained?"

    Officer: "No"

    Me: "am I under arrest?"

    Officer: "No"

    Me: "am I free to go?"

    Officer: "yeah"

    Me: "can I have my Drivers Licence?"

    Officer: "sure"

    The Officer hands me my Drivers Licence.

    Me: "so when you approached me and asked me why I have a gun I could have just ignored you and walked away and you would have been ok with that and not draw on me?"

    Officer: "well, that depends on the circumstance"

    Me: I think I chuckled and said, "so I'm not really free to go then?"

    Officer: "yes you are... do you have a Licence to Carry?"

    Me: "yes"

    Officer: "was it issued from here?"

    Me: "yes"

    Officer: "is it from this county?"

    Me: "yes, it was issued from the sheriff of this county"

    Officer: "can you show it to me?"

    Me: I think I chuckled out loud after he said this and I sighed.

    Me: "I do not consent to this but I will comply"

    Me: with my wallet still in hand I proceed to take out my LTCF but before I did the officer put his hand out indicated to stop.

    Officer: "calm down, calm down... No, no... you don't have to take it out, I just wanted to see if you have one."

    Me: I continued to take it out and held it up for him to see and said, "see, look at that. That really looks like a criminal huh?"

    Officer: said something about he has his orders and he knows the law, blah blah, blah.

    Me: Look, I meant and mean no disrespect but at this point I'm just about spent with this whole ordeal. I said something about I'm doing nothing illegal and yet I'm questioned while you question no one else.

    We exchanged a few more thoughts, facts and opinions and it was going nowhere.

    Officer: "ok, I'm not going to debate you. I enforce the law. The courts debate the issues."

    Me: "right, and they have and continue to do so with proceedings pending. It's been found that open carry is legal and having a holstered gun don't mean that I should be hassled."

    Officer: "the key word is PENDING" I'm doing my job, That's what I do. Enforce the law.

    Officer: "you're free to go"

    Me: "ok... be safe"

    He just stood there, and I just stood there. I picked up my coffee and started to drink it. He took a few steps from me and call someone on his cell phone.

    Officer: "you're free to go"

    Me: I'm thinking ok... I'm free to go but for christ sake I was standing here drinking my coffee and you approached me. You walk away. I'm a bit hot at this time and thought to myself that I need to go and cool down so I just walked about 3 miles home. I needed that walk.


    I have to go and in a hurry so please let me have the opportunity to edit mistakes later. thanks


    Edited because I left out a part in the begining when I cut & pasted fron note pad.

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    spawnbringer wrote:
    He just stood there, and I just stood there. I picked up my coffee and started to drink it. He took a few steps from me and call someone on his cell phone.

    Officer: "you're free to go"

    Me: I'm thinking ok... I'm free to go but for christ sake I was standing here drinking my coffee and you approached me. You walk away.
    Not going to lie, I lol'd pretty good at that.

    Sounds like he wasn't too bad of a guy. If it were me I wouldn't have hastled him so much.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    spawnbringer wrote:
    He just stood there, and I just stood there. I picked up my coffee and started to drink it. He took a few steps from me and call someone on his cell phone.

    Officer: "you're free to go"

    Me: I'm thinking ok... I'm free to go but for christ sake I was standing here drinking my coffee and you approached me. You walk away.
    Not going to lie, I lol'd pretty good at that.

    Sounds like he wasn't too bad of a guy. If it were me I wouldn't have hastled him so much.

    Right... Like I said, I would have done things a bit differently if I had it to do over. I too think the officer was fine. In fact he was professional and as such a credit to himself and the entire PPD. But that does not dismiss the facts of the matter.

    Iwant them to have bettertraining regarding the law. What troubles me is that he stated that he knows the law and has his orders to do just what he did. This means that the PPD is knowingly and deliberately breaking the law. Breaking the law because people are in fear of a law abiding citizen who isnot breaking the law. A citizen who chooses to exercise a Rightto bear arms. A legal activity which is not to be question yet was questioned because someone was fearful of a gun in a hoister.

    I left out an important part of our conversation. After I showed him my LTCF I said somethinglike, "Wow, it's just that it seem like I'm being asked for my papers... youknow, likeNazi Germany." And what he said really got me going and made me think.

    In an easy carefree way he said something to the effect of, "Well,no... not really. I have to know who the bad guys are"

    For cry'n out loud! Think about it.


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    Good story. I've been waiting since yesterday to see what happened.
    I would say you handled the situation pretty well.

    However, personally I would not have shown him my I.D. But that's me.

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    Well I understand where the LEO is coming from. Someone made a complaint and he did his due diligence to investigate it. Now some may argue that he should have just observed without having to speak to you to see what you're intentions are. I don't mind a LEO asking me about my weapon, so long as he knows the boundaries of that interaction. He said you were not being detained, so it was apparent he was just investigating the complaint.It didnt' even appear that he ran your name when you gave him your license. I'm sure he just wanted to see if you started acting "sketchy" during the encounter to seehow far to question you.

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    Right eyesopened. I concur. In fact I agree with your entire statement. Nevertheless it really seemed to have troubled me. I think it's because at that moment I felt that the people in that area viewed me as if I was a criminal and that the person who was in fear had the power to have me detained and even perhaps something worst.

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    hellfogg wrote:
    Good story. I've been waiting since yesterday to see what happened.
    I would say you handled the situation pretty well.

    However, personally I would not have shown him my I.D. But that's me.



    Right... I was thinking about refusing to show my ID. I thought about it for a second. Then I remembered someone posting something about doing what is best for one's self at such a moment. With this I decided that because I needed to be home within a few hours for my kids and that my wife is still real iffy about me carrying I did what I did.

    I think most here will understand.

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    I wonder how most cops would react to a request for ID if someone said "show me yours first... otherwise how do I know if YOU are a "good guy" ?" Basically mirror the confrontation back on them without being antagonistic.

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    spawnbringer wrote:
    hellfogg wrote:
    Good story. I've been waiting since yesterday to see what happened.
    I would say you handled the situation pretty well.

    However, personally I would not have shown him my I.D. But that's me.



    Right... I was thinking about refusing to show my ID. I thought about it for a second. Then I remembered someone posting something about doing what is best for one's self at such a moment. With this I decided that because I needed to be home within a few hours for my kids and that my wife is still real iffy about me carrying I did what I did.

    I think most here will understand.
    Yeah, you probably made the best choice, and I do understand why you chose to show him your ID. For me, I'm still in college, and have nothing better to do with my time, and would be more willing to confront him about it. Every now and then I like to engage in a little "civil disobedience." :P

    But once again, seemed like an okay encounter. It doesn't sound like the cop was too rude, and you handled yourself pretty well. I'm glad it all worked out for ya!

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    RockyMtnScotsman wrote:
    I wonder how most cops would react to a request for ID if someone said "show me yours first... otherwise how do I know if YOU are a "good guy" ?" Basically mirror the confrontation back on them without being antagonistic.
    I would bet that wouldn't go over well with the officer (they probably just point to their badge and name plate, because we all know a badge is impossible to get without being a police officer).

    But WTH, maybe I'll use that line one day just to see what happens!

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    RockyMtnScotsman wrote:
    I wonder how most cops would react to a request for ID if someone said "show me yours first... otherwise how do I know if YOU are a "good guy" ?" Basically mirror the confrontation back on them without being antagonistic.
    Interesting point.

    You know, if the SHTF in this country, it could very well be that citizens banded together and militias might do just that.. and rightfully so. You would most certainly want to know who you are dealing with under those conditions and the operational climate would be to trust few and verify most.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    hellfogg wrote:
    RockyMtnScotsman wrote:
    I wonder how most cops would react to a request for ID if someone said "show me yours first... otherwise how do I know if YOU are a "good guy" ?" Basically mirror the confrontation back on them without being antagonistic.
    (they probably just point to their badge and name plate, because we all know a badge is impossible to get without being a police officer).
    probably - at which point I'd just shrug and tell them there's several dozen website where you can buy those too....

    There was local a case not long ago where women were being pulled over by fake police and raped. The news channels made a strong point about verifying a cop and not just trusting the badge and flashing lights. I seem to recall that they have to show you an ID card when asked.

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    spawnbringer wrote:
    Right eyesopened. I concur. In fact I agree with your entire statement. Nevertheless it really seemed to have troubled me. I think it's because at that moment I felt that the people in that area viewed me as if I was a criminal and that the person who was in fear had the power to have me detained and even perhaps something worst.
    I hear ya man. It's that same feeling when you're pulled over on the side of the road

    Only difference is that everytime I've been pulled over for speeding, I earned it - LOL

    I haven't had a negative encounter with my firearm yet, but I've only been carrying for a few years. Been lucky I suppose. I'm glad this experience hasn't changed your view, more than likely solidified it.

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    And next time since he is doing his duty and responding to complaints....
    Ask him to check out those armed people over there who seem to be scoping
    you out, possibly to rob. :shock:
    Then see if he was telling the truth about checking out a complaint.
    But other than not having to much fun at his expense, sounds like a good one.


    Anyone try to OC to that lovely parking authority yet.
    Would love to see that episode on TV, explaining that the permit is in the
    glove box, and you need to get it out of the car.



    Any word on Mountain Jacks BHO SS headache yet?


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    Do you plan any type of follow-up as a result of this exchange?

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    spawnbringer wrote:
    <snip>
    Officer: "the key word is PENDING" I'm doing my job, That's what I do. Enforce the law.

    Officer: "you're free to go"

    Me: "ok... be safe"

    He just stood there, and I just stood there. I picked up my coffee and started to drink it. He took a few steps from me and call someone on his cell phone.

    Officer: "you're free to go"

    Me: I'm thinking ok... I'm free to go but for christ sake I was standing here drinking my coffee and you approached me. You walk away. I'm a bit hot at this time and thought to myself that I need to go and cool down so I just walked about 3 miles home. I needed that walk.


    I have to go and in a hurry so please let me have the opportunity to edit mistakes later. thanks


    Edited because I left out a part in the begining when I cut & pasted fron note pad.
    I guess you were "free to go," but not "free to stay."

    "Move on, now."
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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