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Thread: Associated Press: West Allis (WI) judge says man could carry gun

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    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...0,369357.story

    West Allis judge says man could carry gun
    Associated Press
    4:00 PM CST, February 17, 2009

    WEST ALLIS, Wis. - A West Allis municipal judge said a resident was within his rights to carry a gun while planting a tree on his property.

    Judge Paul Murphy found Brad Krause not guilty Tuesday of disorderly conduct in a case that has drawn the interest of gun rights advocates.

    "The reason people are upset about this is it's not about guns. It's about civil liberties. And we obviously have a property issue," Krause said after the hearing. "There was no warrant issued, no exigent circumstances, no permission to enter the property, yet the police stormed in with guns drawn and put my life at risk.

    "My wife was very worried that she would be a widow in short order because I was planting a tree."

    A message left for West Allis Police Chief Mike Jungbluth by The Associated Press was not immediately returned. West Allis City Attorney Scott Post declined to comment.

    Police responded to Krause's home in August after a neighbor called to ask about the legality of him openly carrying a hand gun in a holster on his property. Police arrested Krause, ticketing him for disorderly conduct. Police also seized his gun.

    "The big overarching issue is whether open carry is legal," Krause's attorney Steven Cain said. "The law in Wisconsin really only limits concealed carry. The law in Wisconsin, as we see it, is that open carry is absolutely legal, protected, and should be."

    Krause declined to explain why he was carrying a gun to plant a tree.

    "There's no requirement to justify why you're able to exercise constitutional rights," Krause said. "I and everyone else are able to go to church, they're able to vote, they're able to speak their mind. Even though the city might not like it, we have that right."

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    Way to go Brad!!! Did he get his guns back?

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    Tex4OC wrote:
    Way to go Brad!!! Did he get his guns back?
    He's working on it. The judge wouldn't himself authorize the return of the property.

    Kinda sad that those who are proven not guilty are still guilty until proven innocent to get back their property EVEN when their property was ILLEGALLY seized.

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    smithman wrote:
    Tex4OC wrote:
    Way to go Brad!!! Did he get his guns back?
    He's working on it. The judge wouldn't himself authorize the return of the property.

    Kinda sad that those who are proven not guilty are still guilty until proven innocent to get back their property EVEN when their property was ILLEGALLY seized.
    There is a 1983 action ongoing I think in a county in Eastern PA for just this sort of government imposed difficulty in retreiving firearms.

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    +1 for the good guys.

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    Hooray! A judge that understands the law as written! Too bad the police chief and the city Attorney dont.

    Glad you were found not guilty. Now let's hope they return your property.
    "Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death !" Patrick Henry

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Now let's hope he sues their collective a$$es off, starting personally with the LEO's then to the township and on the the state.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Did you see the interview with the cranky old miserable neighbor ? Old guy who looked like he stopped bathing about the time Nixon left office. He snarls into the camera: "He can't come on this block and carry a weapon..." like that block is his own personal community, with its' own set of laws.

    If it's legal, it's LEGAL. What don't these people understand ?! If a neighbor was 'disturbed' by a gay couple, an interracial couple, or even a danged foreigner standing in their own yard doing landcaping, the police wouldn't have stomped over there with guns out...

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    CaptainFinn wrote:
    Did you see the interview with the cranky old miserable neighbor ? Old guy who looked like he stopped bathing about the time Nixon left office. He snarls into the camera: "He can't come on this block and carry a weapon..." like that block is his own personal community, with its' own set of laws.

    If it's legal, it's LEGAL. What don't these people understand ?! If a neighbor was 'disturbed' by a gay couple, an interracial couple, or even a danged foreigner standing in their own yard doing landcaping, the police wouldn't have stomped over there with guns out...
    Can you imagine the press that call would get?

    "911, what is the nature of your emergency?"

    "Umm... yeah... is it legal for two men to be livin' together?"


    Ha.

    TFred

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    Regular Member MI-copperhead's Avatar
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    KansasMustang wrote:
    Now let's hope he sues their collective a$$es off, starting personally with the LEO's then to the township and on the the state.
    X2 :what:
    "Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death !" Patrick Henry

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    He needs to find out who called him in and file "UN-NECESSARY HARRASSMENT" charges against them and then sue for the Legal Costs. Then, of course, sue the City Municipality for improper SEARCH and SEIZUREof personal property without a search warrant properly administered. then, take that money and sue the State for allowing the city to hire uneducated personnel for the Law Enforcement area-they don't have to know the Law, verbatum, but, must have a good working knowledge of the Laws, City, State, and Federal as it applies to their area. Then, take that money and use it to re-locate to the United States-because evidentally he is not, must be in an area that has already turned Communist.

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    Cowboy_Rick wrote:
    He needs to find out who called him in and file "UN-NECESSARY HARRASSMENT" charges against them and then sue for the Legal Costs.
    Filing suit against a 911 caller would prbably not be a good idea for many reasons; but does WI have a FOIA by which the 911 call tape can be obtained?

    In Virginia FOIA has been used many times to show that the 911 caller often is just making an "inquiry," not calling in any "emergency"

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    http://www.wisfoic.org/index.html

    Wisconsin Statutes Chapter 19.31Declaration of policy. In recognition of the fact that a representative government is dependent upon an informed electorate, it is declared to be the public policy of this state that all persons are entitled to the greatest possible information regarding the affairs of government and the official acts of those officers and employees who represent them. Further, providing persons with such information is declared to be an essential function of a representative government and an integral part of the routine duties of officers and employees whose responsibility it is to provide such information. To that end, ss 19.32 to 19.37 shall be construed in every instance with a presumption of complete public access, consistent with the conduct of governmental business. The denial of public access generally is contrary to the public interest, and only in an exceptional case may access be denied.

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    Man, am I ever glad that I live in TEXAS!!!! Thought that 911 was to be used for "EMERGENCIES" only! There should be a phone number for non-emergencies to aid in such questions.

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    Cowboy_Rick wrote:
    Man, am I ever glad that I live in TEXAS!!!! Thought that 911 was to be used for "EMERGENCIES" only!
    You best be polite and respectful to user=6829 else he'll run you in for 'interfering'.

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    Don't know who user=6829 is but I'll stay in TEXAS anyway! Try to always be polite, but I will get the point across.

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    Mouse over your user name there in the left column and see the associated URL in the window on your browser. You're 12526. Mike the OP and super moderator is 32.

    I try to think of individuals by user numbers to avoid the distracting hyperbole of Anony Mouse !user names.

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    McX wrote:
    I dropped in on another thread, and mentioned this too: I have a mid-management hack from the Department of Homeland Security that lives across the street from me, in my politically correct subdivision. He's called the cops on me before, and would definitely call again if he felt I was exercising rights that he feels are exclusive to him.
    Fly this in your front yard
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    or this one...
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Regular Member Brad_Krause's Avatar
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    McX wrote:
    I dropped in on another thread, and mentioned this too: I have a mid-management hack from the Department of Homeland Security that lives across the street from me, in my politically correct subdivision. He's called the cops on me before, and would definitely call again if he felt I was exercising rights that he feels are exclusive to him.
    In Racine there is a chance you'll be arrested for openly carrying a sidearm and charged with Disorderly Conduct, assuming you can lawfully possess a sidearm.
    Last edited by Brad_Krause; 08-21-2010 at 05:13 PM.

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    Party at McX's place?
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 - "A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but the fool's heart to the left."

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Brad_Krause wrote:
    In Racine there is a good chance you'll be arrested for openly carrying a sidearm and charged with Disorderly Conduct, assuming you can lawfully possess a sidearm. You could also be charged with a felony, and bail is somewhat pricey (don't ask how I know).
    My guess, is that you know the same waywe know, one of our forum members was unlawfully detained because he had a firearm on his hip, and was standing on his porch.

    Aside from that, I and others, have carried in Racine several times, at several locations before the Hannan-Rock incident, and after. We weren't hassled but that could just have been luck.

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    Time to name the plant....
    "Sapling of Liberty" Freedom coming to a house near you. :celebrate


    Can you charge the judge with color of law violation, he says you are
    not guilty but keeps the gun?

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