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Thread: Comments Needed Now re Wild Wild Allis Blog

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    Tuesday, February 17, 2009
    In The Wild, Wild West (Allis)

    There's been a story from West Allis that has been followed very closely by all the gun nuts in the entire country. The story, in a nutshell is this guy, Brad Krause, wanted to plant a tree in his yard. While doing so, he thought it would be a great idea to openly carry a gun. Apparently, a neighbor or passerby was alarmed enough to call the police to report a guy walking around with a gun. The police respond and cite the man for disorderly conduct. Today, a municipal judge in West Allis ruled that the guy's behavior did not rise to the level of disorderly conduct and found him not guilty.

    The usual local gun nuts celebrate.

    I beg to differ.

    This is a suburban area, and not out in the middle of the boonies somewhere. The people living in this neighborhood have a right to certain expectations. They are in their social, if not necessarily technically legal, right to expect not to have to worry about neighbors playing music too loud, running around naked, or have to worry about some guy playing wild, wild west.

    In other words, they have a right to expect their neighbors to act in an orderly manner, just as their neighbors can expect the same from them.

    There are only a few reasons that I can think of for why this guy would have to carry a weapon while planting a tree:

    • He was traumatized by an earth worm when he was little,
    • There have been some really, really big termites spotted in the neighborhood,
    • The chipmunks have formed a street gang,
    • He was looking for his fifteen minutes of fame, or
    • He was looking to make a case to challenge the gun rules.
    If any of the first three reasons, the man is certifiably insane and should not be allowed to own a firearm. If it was either of the latter two reasons, surely he could have found a better way of going about it.

    Either way, in my opinion, it was foolishness on his part.

    The thing that burns me up though is the attitude by Mr. Krause and many of his supporters:

    "The reason people are upset about this is it's not about guns. It's about civil liberties. And we obviously have a property issue. There was no warrant issued, no exigent circumstances, no permission to enter the property, yet the police stormed in with guns drawn and put my life at risk," Krause said. Asked why he was carrying a gun to plant a tree, Krause said, "There's no requirement to justify why you're able to exercise constitutional rights. I and everyone else are able to go to church, they're able to vote, they're able to speak their mind. Even though the city might not like it, we have that right."
    Toting a firearm around unnecessarily is not the same as going to church, voting or shooting off one's mouth. No one has ever felt intimidated by someone else going to church. Voting does not endanger anyone else's safety, no matter how much you might disagree with the candidate.

    And the cops had every right to respond as they did. In fact, that is how they are trained to respond. They don't know who this guy is or what he's doing. They only know that there was a report of someone walking around with a gun. In those circumstances, you do show up in force to make a presence, which helps to deter people from doing something foolish or dangerous. And given that someone was alarmed enough to call the police, that is all they reason they need to come on his property and confront him. Judging from his comments in the article, I would not be surprised to learn that he was lipping off to the cops as well. That would fit in with someone trying to make a point or get some attention.

    Furthermore, the only person that put his life at risk, as he claims, is himself. If he didn't think far enough ahead to realize that someone might feel threatened by a guy with a gun, or that the police would respond accordingly, that's too bad for him.

    On a slightly different track, my good friend Illy-T agrees with the premise that disorderly conduct is an overly general, catch-all kind of crime. There is some logic to his position, but I disagree that it is a bad law, or that it did not apply to this case.

    When I worked at group homes or psychiatric hospitals, or even at the House of Correction, there was always a catch all kind of rule like this. The reason being is that someone would inevitably do something stupid and/or dangerous, then try to rationalize their poor behavior by claiming that there was no rule specifying whether they could or could not do whatever it was they did. This catch all phrase would then apply.

    I readily admit that it can be abused by some law enforcement officers, and there are stories that prove it, but this is not one of those cases.

    I think the judge made the wrong call on this case. While open carry is not necessarily illegal, it doesn't make it the right thing to do. Mr. Krause behaved in a way that was disorderly for a quiet, suburban neighborhood, whatever his motivation might have been, and should be held responsible for those behaviors.

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    It is pretty obvious that the blogger had never bothered to read the ordinance.

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    What do you say to someone like that without a clue?

    No one ever has felt threatened by someone going to church?

    How about the white supremacistswho harassed and prosecuted black people all over the south for decadesbecause they feltblack people"getting religion" might give them the "silly idea"that theymay beequal in the eyes of God, and therefor equalon this earth!

    They were threatened because they were ignorant and selfish and wanted to define for others what was proper and socially correct regardless of how it violated individual liberties or law.

    Three rights are specific to this case that the author of this article would like to selfishly decide for others when or if they should exercise. The basic human right to self defense. The Constitutional right to keep ANDbear arms. The fundamental right for each free person to decide for THEMSELVES how and when to exercise their rights under thedirectionof law, and to peaceably change that law and how it is applied when it conflicts with individual liberties.

    Sounds like the author may be a supremacist of another kind.

    ~FMCDH~



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    Although I would love to verbally tear this ignoramous a new bung-hole to type out of, I just do not see an effective argument against peoplethis stupid.

    reading the article was painful enough trying and understand their views and figure a way to crack his nut



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    Nutczak wrote:
    Although I would love to verbally tear this ignoramous a new bung-hole to type out of, I just do not see an effective argument against peoplethis stupid.

    reading the article was painful enough trying and understand their views and figure a way to crack his nut

    "You can't fix stupid!" - Ron White

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    Decoligny wrote:
    Nutczak wrote:
    Although I would love to verbally tear this ignoramous a new bung-hole to type out of, I just do not see an effective argument against peoplethis stupid.

    reading the article was painful enough trying and understand their views and figure a way to crack his nut

    "You can't fix stupid!" - Ron White
    Exactly!!
    Another of my favored quotescomes from the Ex-governor of Minnesota, Jesse ventura when he said "You cannot legislate stupidity"

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    there is no sense in replying on this guys stupid assed blog. he's clueless about rights and laws and feels that only his 'common sense' standard should apply throughout the community.

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    I wonder if he would consider on-duty cops as also living in the wild wild west since they open carry while on duty. But comparison and logic doesn't work on these types. The fear of weapons IS irrational.

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    Necessary?

    For example: Unless lawfully and factually ignorance people like this 'blogger' want to take direct and immediate responsibility for me and my family's safety, he should rethink his definition of necessary. Taking it personal? Yep, you bet.It's my personal duty to protect my family and there has been circumstance had I not had a firearm, the results would not have been favorable to the good guys.

    Necessary is not part of the law. Rights are. Rights are God given and guaranteed by the Constitution and ample code.How each of us chooses to exercise those rights as long as they don't interfere with others legal rights is perfectly OK, in the eyes of the law. I have no legal recourse if I observe a legal act in public that bothers me in some way.

    Wait until a numbnut like this blogger is faced down by a mugger, would you choose to protect your family or shrink and hope the mugger doesn't do the worstto you and your family? No, I will not allow someone, anyone to suborne my rights of self defense and the responsibility I have to my family's well being. Case closed.

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    In response to the above bloggers comments.



    Here is a short list of reasons I will O.C. in my yard. I know most of these are not life threatening situations but worse has started from less.

    1) Railroad bridge is often vandalized by a gang who think the rail road bridge is there turf.

    2) Coyotes.

    3) Trespassing fishermen/ boaters who have been armed in the past.

    4) Drunk/stoned people in the park who get stupid.

    5) The reason I have not thought of yet.

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    FLR72 wrote:
    5) The reason I have not thought of yet.
    My favorite. I always reply with "I do not presume to know what may occur in the future, or when." This usually gets people at least thinking about it, as the important thing here is we simply want to be left alone with the means to beprepared for the worst, even though we all hope the worst never comes to pass.

    Oh, and I wouldn't trouble yourself with that guy; it would be like teaching a pig to dance. You won't get anywhere, and you'll irritate the pig. Some people are so ideologically retarded that they simply cannot be made to see reason.

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    There is about as much chance to change this bloggers mind as there is to get New York Mayor Blomberg to accept an invitation to go target shooting.Bloggers such as this onerevel in being able to ride the wave of controversy. In fact I think somemay even find it a form of sexual release. By the way has anyone heard from Bunker since the Krause ruling?

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    Rick, Lammie-



    You won’t get any argument out of me on changing people’s mind “online”. And as for the “sexual release” statement Lammie you are right on, we see it here from time to time.



    I think changing someone’s mind most likely has to come form one on one contactwith intelligent and respectful conservation. So I posted that list for a few reasons the first one being I am sure there are many anti gunner’s who monitor this blog and two I am hoping we all have a short list like that for use in a conservation.



    In a conservation with one of my neighbors about Mr. Krause’s (sorry if I misspelled the last name) case I told a neighbor that I plan to open carry around the yard and he was surprised we could. (I bet I get a similar reaction from the other neighbors when I tell them of my plans.) In short it was talking to him and eventually by all of us talking to our neighbors,and spreading the word, that this will add up to a public acceptance. We all have friends, neighbors, relatives who maybe / are sitting on the fence about O.C. / C.C. we need to talk to them, take them shooting or just put a unloaded gun into there hands so they see that they don’t go off by themselves. We need to destroy the gun stereotype being portrayed by the Ted Kennedy’s and Nancy Pelosi’s of the world. The more we bring this subject into the open the sooner a person walking down the street with a gun will be of no concern.







    There is no doubt in my mind we are the silent majority.

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    Here is a short list of reasons I will O.C. in my yard. I know most of these are not life threatening situations but worse has started from less.


    People plant nice big "Protected by Brinks Security" signs in their front lawn as a deterent. I like that concept.

    I think wearing a sidearm around your house in a nice neighborhood lets any criminals who might drive through said neighborhood know that they best keep driving. Its a nice way to keep a nice neighborhood "nice".

    I'm also mindful that people who have children in their house will probably find that THE single safest place for their firearm to be (and still have utility in the event its needed) is on your hip in a retention holster.

    I'm reminded that the people who were massacred at that church service in a hotel in Brookfield a few years ago probably NEVER thought they'd need a gun at a church service in a classy suburb like brookfield. Of course they are dead now but...

    The kids at Virginia Tech probably thought they were completely safe in their classroom the day before the massacre there. No one needs a gun at a nice safe reputable university do they?

    I remind people who use the excuse "you don't need a gun in that neighborhood" to turn on the television. The news is FULL of stories NIGHTLY of people who say "I just never thought it could happen here, this is a quiet town"






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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    Here is a short list of reasons I will O.C. in my yard. I know most of these are not life threatening situations but worse has started from less.


    People plant nice big "Protected by Brinks Security" signs in their front lawn as a deterent. I like that concept.

    I think wearing a sidearm around your house in a nice neighborhood lets any criminals who might drive through said neighborhood know that they best keep driving. Its a nice way to keep a nice neighborhood "nice".

    I'm also mindful that people who have children in their house will probably find that THE single safest place for their firearm to be (and still have utility in the event its needed) is on your hip in a retention holster.

    I'm reminded that the people who were massacred at that church service in a hotel in Brookfield a few years ago probably NEVER thought they'd need a gun at a church service in a classy suburb like brookfield. Of course they are dead now but...

    The kids at Virginia Tech probably thought they were completely safe in their classroom the day before the massacre there. No one needs a gun at a nice safe reputable university do they?

    I remind people who use the excuse "you don't need a gun in that neighborhood" to turn on the television. The news is FULL of stories NIGHTLY of people who say "I just never thought it could happen here, this is a quiet town"




    Very well said Hugh.

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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    I remind people who use the excuse "you don't need a gun in that neighborhood" to turn on the television. The news is FULL of stories NIGHTLY of people who say "I just never thought it could happen here, this is a quiet town"

    +1



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    hugh jarmis wrote:
    I remind people who use the excuse "you don't need a gun in that neighborhood" to turn on the television. The news is FULL of stories NIGHTLY of people who say "I just never thought it could happen here, this is a quiet town"
    The media reinforces people's sheepish attitudes by ALWAYS playing a clip of a person who "can't believe it could happen in my neighborhood" on the news stories. It is interesting to note that when I was a young kid of 10 years I was aware that bad people could strike anywhere at anytime and always questioned why people would say that they were surprised.

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    Heres a good write up of it (and others)

    http://www.lakelandtimes.com/main.as...ArticleID=8970

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    I for one am loving the reality checks that are happening.

    The state has a brand new 137 year old open carry law. It's on the books. The lefties hate that. Doyle has gone out of his way to protect this law from repeal and we owe him a big thank you.

    Tosurvive asa leftie, they are hard wired to live in a constant state of denial. They believe they are always safe, criminals always attack someone else. They are alsoincapable ofstopping a threat against them self and they really believe the police will always arrive in time to save them from all harm.

    They can not relate at all to anyone who does not see the world as they do. We can't relate to them either and for the same reasons. We are also hard wired to believe as we do.

    They have just discoveredthis open carry lawis real and now it is killing them to know it is there.Their sense of denial is no longer protecting them.Just let them vent. It doesn't matter what theybelieve or say.

    I can tell you that their day isonly going to get worse from here.



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    Ditto

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    This idiot leftie thinks that he just put his gun on to plant the tree.
    He can't concieve that the gun is always on, and he just happened to
    be planting a tree that day.

    It must be nice to live where the dogs running loose respect private property.
    Your neighbors don't have pet monkeys, and imigration stops the gangs at the border.

    If you are breathing then you need to be carrying, if you aren't you need to make
    sure your next of kin are carrying before you go.

    I wil OC carry in my coffin at the funeral home, haven't decided if I will take it with me yet,
    or let the child have it afterwards.

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    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    I wil OC carry in my coffin at the funeral home, haven't decided if I will take it with me yet,
    or let the child have it afterwards.
    I would think that all depends on where you expect to end up...

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    ccwtrainer wrote:
    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    I wil OC carry in my coffin at the funeral home, haven't decided if I will take it with me yet,
    or let the child have it afterwards.
    I would think that all depends on where you expect to end up...
    I doubt guns are allowed in hell. They would just disrupt the tyranny. Cant have the slaves demanding human rights and all that.

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    Reasons I O.C. in my yard ?
    Because I can.


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    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    I wil OC carry in my coffin at the funeral home, haven't decided if I will take it with me yet,
    or let the child have it afterwards.
    Fine idea I intend to let my wife know that right now... She gave me a funny look as if I really had to tell her that.

    ccwtrainer-

    I have to disagree about Jimmy D and him fighting for anything; except his best interests, higher taxes and the soon to be toll roads. The only way that guy will get any thanks out of me is if he leaves office early, and if he dose I will help him pack. But that is just my 2 cents..





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