Greater Milwaukee Today: Ruling could affect state open-carry law

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Ruling could affect state open-carry law
Man wore holstered gun while working in his yard

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By JOE PETRIE - GM Today Staff
February 18, 2009



WAUKESHA - A West Allis man was found not guilty of disorderly conduct Tuesday after police arrested him for planting a tree in his yard while having a holstered gun at his side.


The ruling, which deals with the state’s open carry gun law, could start new legal arguments for either Wisconsin’s gun carry laws, or the use of general disorderly conduct charges by police officers to apprehend people.

According to attorney Steven Cain, his client Brad Krause of West Allis was planting a tree on his property with the gun at his side, when a neighbor called the police to ask if it was legal. In response, the police responded to Krause’s house with their guns drawn, confiscated the weapon and arrested him for disorderly conduct.

"First and foremost, open carry is absolutely legal in Wisconsin," Cain said. "Secondly, a disorderly conduct statute can’t prohibit what is a constitutionally protected right. And based on the facts of the case, there wasn’t any disorder being caused."

For full story, go to the electronic version of The Freeman. Click here to access the electronic version.

E-mail: jpetrie@conleynet.com

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I think that this should go the way of the old "VAGRANCY LAWS", where you had to have a certain amount of cash in your pocket or you would be arrested for being a VAGRANT and have to spend a night in jail. The City, and State need their "PLOW" cleaned for hiring the Officers envolved and not requiring the Officers to be trained in their duties to the Community that they are supposed to serve.

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The officers involved need to be in jail.
Aggravated assault would be a good starting point.
Unlike the disorderly statute, Aggravated assault is QUITE clear.
When can we expect this to happen?

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Only Bad people hide their guns

When I was a young child in northern Wisconsin I had seen men carryguns on there person openly nobody gave them a second look.

What happened ?

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rnick wrote:

Only Bad people hide their guns

When I was a young child in northern Wisconsin I had seen men carryguns on there person openly nobody gave them a second look.

What happened ?

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Some of us still do! but what happened is the northwoods is quickly becoming a suburb of Chicago! With the people comes the mentality, especially when they can hold a public office position up here.

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Based on my experience, that is too simple, too simplistic an explanation.

I live in a small old community where the old families and residents are visible and well known. Contrarily, so are the new folk and 'resorters'.

The resorters are away and still I cannot get any 2A traction. When the resorters are here then I waste my time resisting their demands for the Town to do this or that to improve some appearance or waste tax money some other way.

I am honored to have been elected and by the largest number ever, before or since.

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rnick wrote:

Only Bad people hide their guns

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Horsehockey!

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While most bad people hide their guns, that's not the same thing as saying most (or all) who hide their guns are bad people.

The former is true. The latter surely is not.

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"A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing". At least when it comes to news reporters. Joe Petrie isn't the first reporter that referred to the "Wisconsin open carry law". Wisconsin does not have an open carry law. It only has a presumption that open carry is lawful because there is no law to prohibit it as there is with concealed carry.

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The idea is one of legislative intent, Lammie. They wrote a law forcing open carry by prohibiting concealed carry. Therefore, the CCW statute IS the OC statute. I am with you in principle, but refering toan OC lawis a very good way to make people accept the original reasoning behind the CCW prohibition, and the logical conclusions drawn from that information.

ccwtrainer will probably want to weigh in on that as well.

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Rick:

I sure wish people would just call it Wisconsin's carry law . In my post was inferring that there is no specific statute that reads that open carry is legal or for that matter not legal. I will yeild to you that because of Article I section 25, the SSC opinion in Hamdan and the strict liability of the concealed carry prohibition that open carry may be law by inference. Law by inference is where a conclusion may be drawn from the proof of certain facts if such facts would lead a reasonable person of average intelligence to reach the same conclusion.

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Lammie wrote:

Rick:

. In my post was inferring that there is no specific statute that reads that open carry is legal or for that matter not legal.

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Laws are made to tell us what we CANNOT OR SHOULDN'T DO, not totell us what we are allowedto do.

So if there is no law strictly prohibiting an action,that actionis then legal!

Now in some localities (Chicago comes to mind) the thickness of that book of laws would be muchthinner if they just printed what you are allowed to do

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Do you ever have one of those moments where you can't believe you didn't see something that was right in front of you? Bravo! Of coursewe should simply refer to941.23as "Wisconsin's carry law," just as we have been trying to get people in general to think of a comprehesive carry law (not mandated concealed) we should refer to our current law as a general "carry" law, not a CCW prohibition. Thanks, Lammie, I honestly hadn't thought of it the right way.

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I suggest the group not go down this road of pointing a statute banning concealed carry as authorizing oepn carry.

Open carry is simply not unlawful in Wisconsin. That't all you need to say and is the most effective thing you can say.

Pointing to positive law to justify the legality of open carry in Wisconsin promotes the idea that gun carry is unlawful except where authorized by the government. This hurts our cause folks.

Please do not do it.

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Did he git his gun back?

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Mike, 941.23 is the "manner of carry" law. It's the only "manner of carry" law we have, and it happens to say you can't CCW. Making this point is helpful rhetorically to get people tounderstand that we DO have lawful open carry here, specifically for the reason you state. I fail to see how making people stop and consider the difference between open and concealed carry by breaking the myth that a CCW prohibition means ALL carry is illegal is somehow not helpful.

We've got a huge portion of the population here that supports right-to-carry. However, many of these people are dead set that the only way we can get that here is by passing a law. We need to get them to understand we don't need a law; that the law we have is just fine for now and you have to openly carry in order to comply with it.

Perhaps you have an example from another state where this somehow backfired?

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Laws prohibiting concealed carry should not be used as a justification for open carry. Your justification for open carry is rooted in your basic human rights and protected under Article I section 25 of the WI constitution, not by the dictates of the prohibition on concealed carry. By all means, assert you would support the privilege of concealed carry as an option.

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lockman wrote:

Laws prohibiting concealed carry should not be used as a justification for open carry.

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Be that as it may (I happen to agree) our state supreme court has said just that by corollary.

They have stated that our prohibition on concealed carry is constitutional specifically because open carry is legal.

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Teej:

The SSC has said that because concealed carry is strictly prohibited open carry is a reasonable alternative to exercise the activities contained in Article I section 25. The Court has made no specific comment that open carry is legal. Open carry is lawful only by presumption. If the SSC said in plain language that open carry is legal we wouldn't be talking about it now. We would be doing it.