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Thread: Good news for Utah permit instructors

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    It appears that Utah HB204, which would have done away with non-resident instructors has been substituted -

    http://le.utah.gov/~2009/bills/hbillint/hb0204s01.htm

    They are installing better monitoring procedures for the instructors who were allegedly just rubber stamping app's without providing a class.
    James Reynolds

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    I know of a certain "instructor" in Ohio who offered that to me. I passed and took PVCs class instead.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    jmelvin wrote:
    I know of a certain "instructor" in Ohio who offered that to me. I passed and took PVCs class instead.
    Was the person not an instructor?
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    I just completed a class given by the president of VCDL, Mr. Philip Van Cleave.

    A very informative and thorough instruction.

    I would present him as an example of excellence to other Utah non-resident instructors.

    If you would like to obtain an Utah non-resident concealed carry permit, without being "rubber stamped", he is your go-to guy.

    You can reach him through the VCDL website. http://www.vcdl.org/

    \*/ Don't Hesitate \*/ <--- (The MSgt B stamp of approval)



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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    jmelvin wrote:
    I know of a certain "instructor" in Ohio who offered that to me. I passed and took PVCs class instead.
    IMO - this type of thing should be reported. We have an obligation to self-monitor or it will be done for us.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    ProS to my knowledge the person was an instructor, but was choosing not to instruct thus the " ". I am an existing multiple permit holder and what was offered to me was to take the test the instructorhad prepared (not required by Utah I know) over what the course would cover, pay my fee and I would be provided documentation saying that I had met the requirement. Although I felt comfortable that I could pass the test, I was not comfortable using this test in lieu of participating in an actual class as required by Utah. Since that time I have taken the Utah course with PVC and my girlfriend, who was privvy to the conversation as well, has taken the Utah course under your instruction.

    I do not recall the name of the instructor, but I do know the shop thatthe instructorworked out of, but don't care to reveal the name of the shop because I believethe shopotherwise does business in an ethical way.

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    MSgt B wrote:
    If you would like to obtain an Utah non-resident concealed carry permit, without being "rubber stamped", he is your go-to guy.



    So is Pro Shooter; the author of this thread.

    http://proactiveshooters.com/proacti...lable-courses/

    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    jmelvin wrote:
    ProS to my knowledge the person was an instructor, but was choosing not to instruct thus the " ". I am an existing multiple permit holder and what was offered to me was to take the test the instructorhad prepared (not required by Utah I know) over what the course would cover, pay my fee and I would be provided documentation saying that I had met the requirement. Although I felt comfortable that I could pass the test, I was not comfortable using this test in lieu of participating in an actual class as required by Utah. Since that time I have taken the Utah course with PVC and my girlfriend, who was privvy to the conversation as well, has taken the Utah course under your instruction.

    I do not recall the name of the instructor, but I do know the shop thatthe instructorworked out of, but don't care to reveal the name of the shop because I believethe shopotherwise does business in an ethical way.
    That's incredible (yet credible) that someone entrusted with the certification would knowingly do that. You know, as instructors, we have good days and bad days. I've got into a conversation about something and completely missed a page of the manual and had to go back and cover it. People are human and all make mistakes but willfully trying to not offer the class yet sign off on your app is shameful.

    Also, please say thank you to your girlfriend for her attendance. I do appreciate it and I hope that she enjoyed the material presented.

    Jim
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    T Dubya wrote:
    MSgt B wrote:
    If you would like to obtain an Utah non-resident concealed carry permit, without being "rubber stamped", he is your go-to guy.



    So is Pro Shooter; the author of this thread.

    http://proactiveshooters.com/proacti...lable-courses/
    Thank you T Dubya.....I appreciate the mention....

    I'm honored to be grouped with PVC as the only ones in the Richmond area who offer this permit class. Its a permit that I think everyone should have.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    One of these days I'm going to get in either PVC's or your class to get my permit. The way things are looking at work, I will want to do that sooner rather than later. Iwas informedearlier this week that my job starting in mid-late summer would start involving a lot of travel.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    darthmord wrote:
    One of these days I'm going to get in either PVC's or your class to get my permit. The way things are looking at work, I will want to do that sooner rather than later. Iwas informedearlier this week that my job starting in mid-late summer would start involving a lot of travel.
    We do a Utah class monthly. Our next one is Sunday, March 22 from 10am-3pm. I'm not sure what Philip's upcoming schedule is but you may be able to get in sooner with him if you do not want to wait.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    ProShooter wrote:
    darthmord wrote:
    One of these days I'm going to get in either PVC's or your class to get my permit. The way things are looking at work, I will want to do that sooner rather than later. Iwas informedearlier this week that my job starting in mid-late summer would start involving a lot of travel.
    We do a Utah class monthly. Our next one is Sunday, March 22 from 10am-3pm. I'm not sure what Philip's upcoming schedule is but you may be able to get in sooner with him if you do not want to wait.
    Are you still giving the class in MD? If so, when?

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1787!!:X
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Smurfologist wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    darthmord wrote:
    One of these days I'm going to get in either PVC's or your class to get my permit. The way things are looking at work, I will want to do that sooner rather than later. Iwas informedearlier this week that my job starting in mid-late summer would start involving a lot of travel.
    We do a Utah class monthly. Our next one is Sunday, March 22 from 10am-3pm. I'm not sure what Philip's upcoming schedule is but you may be able to get in sooner with him if you do not want to wait.
    Are you still giving the class in MD? If so, when?

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1787!!:X

    Still working out the details. Called a hotel today and was not thrilled with the room rental cost. Still scoping out locations and dates...

    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    jmelvin wrote:
    ProS to my knowledge the person was an instructor, but was choosing not to instruct thus the " ". I am an existing multiple permit holder and what was offered to me was to take the test the instructorhad prepared (not required by Utah I know) over what the course would cover, pay my fee and I would be provided documentation saying that I had met the requirement. Although I felt comfortable that I could pass the test, I was not comfortable using this test in lieu of participating in an actual class as required by Utah. Since that time I have taken the Utah course with PVC and my girlfriend, who was privvy to the conversation as well, has taken the Utah course under your instruction.

    I do not recall the name of the instructor, but I do know the shop thatthe instructorworked out of, but don't care to reveal the name of the shop because I believethe shopotherwise does business in an ethical way.
    As aninstructor (NRA) myself, you would be doing the shop, other instructors and all of us RKBAers a favor if you would tell the shop owners, and if necessary take things up the line asfar as necessary.

    Here in Cincinnati an NRA instructor handed out 100+ (I think) certificates, yet failed to follow content and time procedures. This invalidated the licenses of his students, inconveniencing themand gave part of the CCW processa black eye - andthe media got all the play they could out of it.

    Please do what you can do stop this person's activities.

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    This incident happened about a year ago in a shop I've been in two or three times in my life. I couldn't remember the person if I wanted to, but I do recall the occurrence and the location. I was a bit perturbed at the time, but I knew of no recourse and now I've long since forgotten the individual.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Check the revoked list. Someone may have done it for you -

    http://www.des.utah.gov/bci/documents/insrevoked.pdf
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    That's incredible (yet credible) that someone entrusted with the certification would knowingly do that.
    You think that's bad, I could tell stories about EMS instruction that would curdle your blood!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Smurfologist wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    darthmord wrote:
    One of these days I'm going to get in either PVC's or your class to get my permit. The way things are looking at work, I will want to do that sooner rather than later. Iwas informedearlier this week that my job starting in mid-late summer would start involving a lot of travel.
    We do a Utah class monthly. Our next one is Sunday, March 22 from 10am-3pm. I'm not sure what Philip's upcoming schedule is but you may be able to get in sooner with him if you do not want to wait.
    Are you still giving the class in MD? If so, when?

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1787!!:X

    Still working out the details. Called a hotel today and was not thrilled with the room rental cost. Still scoping out locations and dates...
    Thanks ProShooter. I will be waiting and will let you know how many people are committed on my end. You can count me in for sure (smile)!!

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1787!!:X
    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Smurfologist wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    Smurfologist wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    darthmord wrote:
    One of these days I'm going to get in either PVC's or your class to get my permit. The way things are looking at work, I will want to do that sooner rather than later. Iwas informedearlier this week that my job starting in mid-late summer would start involving a lot of travel.
    We do a Utah class monthly. Our next one is Sunday, March 22 from 10am-3pm. I'm not sure what Philip's upcoming schedule is but you may be able to get in sooner with him if you do not want to wait.
    Are you still giving the class in MD? If so, when?

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1787!!:X

    Still working out the details. Called a hotel today and was not thrilled with the room rental cost. Still scoping out locations and dates...
    Thanks ProShooter. I will be waiting and will let you know how many people are committed on my end. You can count me in for sure (smile)!!

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1787!!:X

    Thank you Smurf...good to hear. As soon as I know something solid, I'll put it out there.

    Jim

    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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