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I was arrested by El Cajon PD today...

Grapeshot

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AyatollahGondola wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
FOIA requests are easy, cheap and they have 5 days to respond.

Yata hey

Not always true. FOIA, for federal government requests, can get extended for a few reasons, and they can can be costly if you end up having to pay for a clerks time, or the document count gets pretty high. PRA, California version, can be denied, and they too can bill you for time.

I just checked yesterday on a FOIA from DHS I requested in early December. Still don't have it, and they are not in violation of the law because they responded with proper excuses:lol:

I hope I spelled everything right:cool:
In OP's situation as described, it still falls well within "easy & cheap."

Five days to respond doesn't mean five days to conclude. Most local agencies will try to comply if they have any experience with FIOA as they don't want to pay your legal expense for same if they do not comply.

Yata hey
 

seansean

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AyatollahGondola wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
FOIA requests are easy, cheap and they have 5 days to respond.

Yata hey

Not always true. FOIA, for federal government requests, can get extended for a few reasons, and they can can be costly if you end up having to pay for a clerks time, or the document count gets pretty high. PRA, California version, can be denied, and they too can bill you for time.

I just checked yesterday on a FOIA from DHS I requested in early December. Still don't have it, and they are not in violation of the law because they responded with proper excuses:lol:

I hope I spelled everything right:cool:
heh. after the grilling I just gave out, I'm almost afraid to say that I also did an FOIA request once....after I found out about the NSA wiretapping, well, everyone, I filed one with them to see if I'd been tapped as part of their sweep..just out of curiosity..it took 2 weeks, but I got a response, denying my request, but, they also refused to confirm or deny(their words) whether they did it:shock: citing a presidential executive order and some case law. I don't know how to load the doc up on this board, but I'll be happy to type out the letter in full(sans my name) if anyone needs proof :cool:
 

AyatollahGondola

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Even local agencies run the PRA requests past their legal counsel, and this can take some time. I'm pointing this out because it seems as though the credibility of the OP is going to be denied until the exculpatory evidence is posted. Now an arrest report should be available to the accused fairly quickly, and without PRA, but was their ever an actual arrest? I'm still unclear on that

By the way, I manage a small website that uses PRA's and FOIA's religiously. It also helps educate people on how to use public records to protect themselves.
 

Citizen

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Grapeshot wrote:
SNIP Further OC and OCDO through truth and facts. Recognize their worth and you'll never have to remember anything else.

Yata hey

And get your quotes straight, Ayotollah, when you're quoting another forum member.

Some around here have a little trouble with that.

:D
 

Grapeshot

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Its really hard to download documents and images. Upload them to whatever file you prefer on your PC, click the "Browse" button on your posting, locate the file and poof, there it is.

No self typed out letter offered as "proof" has any validity.

Yata hey
 

Citizen

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AyatollahGondola wrote:
Citizen wrote:


And get your quotes straight, Ayotollah, when you're quoting another forum member.

Some around here have a little trouble with that.

:D
You spelled my name wrong; I'm telling.....:cuss:
Sorry. I was taking a sideswipe at Grapeshot. Enfilade fire, as it were.
 

Citizen

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Grapeshot wrote:
Its really hard to download documents and images. Upload them to whatever file you prefer on your PC, click the "Browse" button on your posting, locate the file and poof, there it is.

No self typed out letter offered as "proof" has any validity.

Yata hey
I thought the usual method was to just yank the lanyard and blow it all to confetti?
 

seansean

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AyatollahGondola wrote:
seansean wrote:
I don't know how to load the doc up on this board, but I'll be happy to type out the letter in full(sans my name) if anyone needs proof :cool:
No need for that anyway; we already know your name from the wiretap we didn't do
:lol: Yep, I suppose..
 

seansean

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Grapeshot wrote:
Its really hard to download documents and images. Upload them to whatever file you prefer on your PC, click the "Browse" button on your posting, locate the file and poof, there it is.

No self typed out letter offered as "proof" has any validity.

Yata hey
don't have a scanner at home, but can do it at my agents office..soon as I get it on my comp, I'll post it..and the NSA uses rather specific language and cites, anyone familiar with it would recognize the verbiage, I think..
 

Sonora Rebel

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Very possible there was no 'arrest' record written. The situation would be dismissed with one of the ABCD codes and the units would go back in service. This would account for the OP being un-arrested.

I'm real curious as to the 'ammo pouch' thing tho. OK... so you can't OC with a mag in the weapon or one in the pipe... but the ammo thing puzzles me.

I 'thought' in CA the top of the magazine had to be exposed... as in no 'flap pouches'? Makes no sense to carry a gun with no ammo at all. Anybody wanna enlighten me?

God, I'm glad I don't live there now.
 

Grapeshot

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Citizen wrote:
AyatollahGondola wrote:
Citizen wrote:
And get your quotes straight, Ayotollah, when you're quoting another forum member.

Some around here have a little trouble with that.

:D
You spelled my name wrong; I'm telling.....:cuss:
Sorry. I was taking a sideswipe at Grapeshot. Enfilade fire, as it were.
Stepped in it again didn't you. Not to worry we know you mean well. :)

Yata hey

 

giaking70

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seansean....

not trying to bash ya man, the incident really did happen, rather in an odd way. I say that because according to PC 12031 (e) they have the authority to ascertain if the weapon is loaded or not and if the weapon is deemed unloaded, the firearm is to be returned and the subject allowed to go about his or her lawful business. Not quoting exactly but close enough. This did not happen...at all. As I tried to fruitlessly inform them that having magazines in close proximity does not constitute as loaded. But as I listen to the recording over and over, the officer was so sure of himself that he was correct and was so gung ho about making an arrest, it went in one ear, out the other. I should of had those flyers on me but didn't, oh well, live and learn.

But I don't think any one of them even bothered to check and "research" the PC like I have one of them saying on my recorder. I feel maybe this is something where I shouldn't have to justify my actions or rights to keep and bear arms where the Constitution gives me that right.

I merely said veteran off duty officer as not to imply a LEO as one would think. An off duty officer can mean both LEO off duty or security officer off duty...take your pick. As far as I am concerned, its one in the same depending how you hold yourself up and your attitude. I never revealed myself to be any kind of officer until they asked where I work. I'm not hiding anything from them, why should I. I grew up under law enforcement as my father served a few years and always held LEO up in high regard.
So, why lie to him about what I do for a living, they probably would of found out sooner or later. I know you guys are saying I don't have to give up any more information then needed for them to just identify who I am, as a law abiding citizen lawfully carrying my firearm.

I know, I am gonna get bashed for talking too much to them, but hey, its not like I have anything to hide, hope this makes sense. So, seansean, I'm not trying to insult you, just merely trying to let you know this incident really did honestly happen and if you want details, I will be more then happy to give them.
No hard feelings and didn't mean to vent on you. My apologies to you sir.
 

Decoligny

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Law Enforcement Officers usually study up on what is ILLEGAL, not what is legal.

PC 12001, PC 12023 and PC 12021.5 condition the LEO to believe that ammo and gun in the possession of the same person means that the gun is loaded.

They don't take into consideration that those particular PCs deal with SPECIFIC CRIMINAL ACTIVITY being committed while the person has the gun and the ammo on them.

Read and alway carry my pamphlet: "IS IT LOADED?" along with all the other training memos.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/11495.html
 

NMHasOpenCarry

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giaking70 wrote:
February 20th, 2009 at approximately 1:45pm I was at Westfield Shopping Center Parkway Plaza in El Cajon at Macy's exchanging a pair of sun glasses I got as a gift. One of their employees come up and asked that if I needed help to just ask. I was trying on different pairs for about a good 20 minutes or so. As I was trying one pair on, I saw in the reflection in the mirror a shoulder patch of an El Cajon Police officer and then a few more and one of them grabs my arm...
Then how did you have time/opportunity to activate your recorder?
Anyways, by this time they are placing me in the backseat of the cruiser and also bear in mind, I have not told them where I work. I feel cause where I work shouldn't have any bearings or relevance to this situation.
You're a security guard. Where you work has NO relevance to this situation.
I wanna crack up laughing here by this time as this poor rookie doesn't know he is dealing with a seasoned veteran off duty officer.
Hmm...trying pretty hard to sound like an LEO here. "Seasoned, veteran off-duty officer"? No...once again: you're just a security guard.
Officer 4 then gave me a polite interview just asking what I do for a living and this is where my off duty status just had to come into play, I didnt want it to because like I stated earlier, my job status should not have any bearings on my right to open carry.
It doesn't. You're a security guard. I'm going to start referring to my days off as "off duty status". Think that will get me some credibility?
There were a couple of gangbangers in there and they removed them immediately I am guessing because of my off duty status.
No, they removed them so you didn't get your lily-white mall-cop arse handed to you on a platter.
He even took pictures of my still attached Blackhawk Serpta Holster and mag pouches on the opposite side of my hip.
If you spent all that money on a holster, wouldn't you know it was called a "SERPA" holster?
I was asked by Officer 1 who my duty WC was and told him and gave him the number.
Duty Watch Commander? Again...trying awfully hard to sound like an LEO. You're a security guard. And, if you weren't an LEO, WHY would they want your watch commander's number? The police never asked for my manager's number at Stuckey's when I was busted for stealing change from the Salvation Army bell-ringer.

For those of you reading this, I want to point out that some of this officers in this department, I grew up with, so they know me and know what I do for a living.
They know you're a security guard?

Sorry...I'm calling BS just for the tape recorder thing alone.

Here's an idea. Tell Kalifornia to "suck it" and y'all come over to NM where we can carry a gun LOADED on your hip, right down the middle of Main St. And no-one even blinks...

Cheers, all...and keep up the good work!
 

giaking70

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"I merely said veteran off duty officer as not to imply a LEO as one would think".


what I meant to say by this is that some of the guys that work for ECPD have not been working as LEO very long. I know most of them by happen stance and through working in various parts of the local area. A lot of them I knew in school or had worked with them at prior jobs. I feel I have more experience under my belt than most of them do and when that one in particular asked me if I had been arrested and said he has arrested me before, just didn't have a damned clue. He was a total rookie and I could tell he was. I was working my first security job when he was probably still rummaging through cabinets after learning to walk in search of something to "drink".

So please pardon my usage of that term, just wanted to clarify that.
 

backthebadge

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just what we need ,someone wasting police time and resources trying to set up the police. In this day and age with all the random shootings that have occurred in malls, schools and offices anyone walking around OPEN CARRYING should be stopped and checked for the safety of the public.

a real (SEASONED VETERAN OFFICER) carries concealed and doesn't want the public to know he's an off duty officer.

you are obviously a security guard that will always be a wannabe, the kind that gives good security guards a bad name and takes away the respect they deserve.

you should be fired by whatever private agency employs you and your guard card taken away.
 

NMHasOpenCarry

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Macy's El Cajon, 291 Fletcher Parkway, El Cajon, CA (619)444-1754

Anyone local want to call their security (or sunglass counter) to confirm this incident?
 

elsensei

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backthebadge wrote:
just what we need ,someone wasting police time and resources trying to set up the police. In this day and age with all the random shootings that have occurred in malls, schools and offices anyone walking around OPEN CARRYING should be stopped and checked for the safety of the public.

a real (SEASONED VETERAN OFFICER) carries concealed and doesn't want the public to know he's an off duty officer.

you are obviously a security guard that will always be a wannabe, the kind that gives good security guards a bad name and takes away the respect they deserve.

you should be fired by whatever private agency employs you and your guard card taken away.
Yeah, I agree completely. 'Cause I'm sure you know, every one of those random killings was done by a guy who was open carrying. I know this has to be true because it's ILLEGAL to conceal a weapon while on your way to kill some one, and by making something illegal you can ensure that it won't happen..

So to stay on the right side of the law, the person intent on murder just needs to make sure he does not conceal his weapon while on the way to the place where he will execute his victims.
 
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