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Thread: When does OC become CC?

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    I'm far from new to weapons but am educating myself on the topcs of OC as well as CC and I plan to get my CCW this spring. In the meantime, I've decided to exercise my right to OC (I'm in Colorado). My question is, at what point does OC become CC (and illegal for me at this point)? Is it when my coat tail drops over the handle of the sidearm? Is it when the sidearm is completely covered? Can someone point me to a legal description?

    TIA

    Gary

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    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    Start here http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_d...d_statutes.htmand click until you get to title 18, criminal code; search there.

    I didn't find a statutory definition of "concealed" there anywhere, so it was (or will be) worked out in case law.

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    Thanks for the link, Anubis. I have to believe precedent has been set for this, would like to know so I can stay OUT of the gray if at all possible! I've carried a side arm while hunting before and hated the thought of it becoming partially covered and a DOW officer making something of it.

    Gary

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    I think that most officers will follow the logical steps. If you can see the entire gun, from top to bottom, including holster, it is being open carried. If you can see the barrel of the gun, but the handle is hidden by a shirt tail or the edge of your coat, that is concealed, but not too well. It no part of the gun can be seen, and it is not printing through your clothes, that is concealed.

    If you have a CCW permit, be sure to keep it hidden, period. Don't think of ways to carry concealed 50%, open 50%. Pick one way or another. This will keep you out of trouble.

    Of course, you may inadvertently reveal that you are carrying. The best advice I've heard for this situation is either leave right away, or go about your business if nobody notices. I know this sounds odd, but the quickest way to reveal your intentions to the employees of the establishment is to just leave, and remove what they might consider a threat.

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    Mike,

    What you describe has been my understanding but it still seems pretty open to interpretation. My reason for asking is not because I want to be somewhere in between but because I don't want to find myself in a situation where my intention is to OC but a LEO's opinion is that my weapon is concealed because, for example, my jacket is partially covering the grip, perhaps by accident. This is exactly why I've only carried my Anaconda in a western holster while hunting - no question about it being concealed when it is way down on your thigh! But I have never, and don't want in the future,to carry that beast anywhere but to the range and while hunting. My .45 though is different...

    Gary

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    What kind of gun is this? and what kind of holsters do you have or want to try? certain holsters are designed for one or the other, as you have found with a drop leg/thigh holster. Inside the waistband is obviously for concealed. If you have, say, a belt slide pancake holster, you will have to wear your shirt tucked in and your jacket short. But if you have a holster that pushes the gun out, away from your body, you can probably not tuck the shirt and just push the bottom of the jacket down behind the handle. The best thing to do in this situation is wear it at home, try different things and basically get comfortable.

    Read this thread, as a good reminder about the pro's and con's of open carrying. I'm sure you have heard a lot of it, but it is always good to remember these points.

    http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=873593

    The most important thing is to dress appropriately.

    If you have time, dig through these threads too. A wealth of information here.

    http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthre...1#post10508911

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    Thanks for the follow-ups, Mike. Right now all I have for my XD .45 is the holster than came with it so tucking behind the handle should work. When I get my CCW I'll get a IWB for it to fully conceal.

    I'll check out those links - thanks again!

    Gary

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    Well, you picked a quality firearm, and you should be able to find plenty of holsters for it.

    Glad to help. I've been open carrying for a few months now, while I wait for my CCW. So I definitely understand your concern for following the law. This is definitely a commendable thing, because the people in RKBA crowd should be some of the most law abiding citizens in the country.

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    Under the annotations of 18-12-105, Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful possession of weapons, is this

    Question of whether weapon is concealed is question of fact for the jury which should not be summarily determined by the trial judge at the time that he rules on the defendant's motion to suppress. People v. Vincent, 628 P.2d 107 (Colo. 1981).


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    doublewide wrote:
    My question is, at what point does OC become CC (and illegal for me at this point)? Is it when my coat tail drops over the handle of the sidearm? Is it when the sidearm is completely covered? Can someone point me to a legal description?

    TIA

    Gary
    The weapon is concealed when it ceases to be EXPOSED TO OBSERVATION. There is no prescription in CO law beyond that .

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    Thanks for the replies, Sandcreek and centsi. I did find that in the statutes after Mike pointed me there. We've probably taken the conversation as far as we can at this point but it seems kinda spooky that it is up to the LEO to determine if he thinks you were trying to conceal. Granted, the jury may find otherwise but that's a lot of hassle and expense to go through if a LEO has an axe to grind. But I guess that could happen with a lot of different interactions we might have with law enforcement.

    Gary

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Until you have a CCW... Dress to the gun!

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Keep in mind, as whether or not the weapon is concealed is a judgement of fact, not law, that the reasonable man theory will apply. If the reasonable man can readily discern that you are carrying a weapon, it's not concealed. Obviously, to be completely safe, have the whole pistol exposed. But if you have an IWB holster with the stock showing, I would say the reasonable man would conclude you were armed. If only the barrel is showing, I would say not. CO is gun friendly, but don't open carry in Denver County, of course. As far as being kind of concealed, that doesn't bother me at all in El Paso County. I have a CCW, so it's not an issue. In the PDR of Denver, I would make sure it was completely concealed--out of the car. Here, if someone sees I'm carrying, who cares? Not the police at any rate.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Usually during these winter (?) months I wear a fleece. It doesn't cover the whole sidearm, just the top of it. I do have a CCW just for that reason, During the summer I let it all hang out.
    I don't like to give my carry a specific name, I just "carry".

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