Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 61

Thread: NRA doesn't undersatnd VA law, HQ located in VA

  1. #1
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    VIRGINIA: Update on Two Pending Gun Bills in Richmond Today, the House Militia,Police, andPublic Safety Committee passed Senate Bill 1035, sponsored by State Senator Emmett Hanger, Jr. (R-24). It now heads to the full House for consideration. SB1035 would permit a Right-to-Carry permit holder to carry a concealed firearm into a restaurant, provided that they do not consume any alcohol. Language requiring that a permit holder inform an authorized alcohol beverage control manager of the restaurant or club that they are carrying a concealed firearm was removed by the Committee. Currently, concealed carry permit holdersdining in restaurants that serve alcoholmust leave their firearm at home orlocked in their vehicle, where it isat risk of being stolen.Despite passing a background check and possessing a state issued permit to carry, law-abiding permit holders are forced to give up their right to self-defense whendining in establishments that serve alcohol. The need for this legislation is clear. Senate Bill1166, sponsored by State Senator John Watkins (R-10), was defeated last night in the House Militia, Police and Public Safety. This bill would have increased the gun tax charged by the Virginia State Police to run the mandatory background check from $2 to $5, a 150% increase for Virginia residents. For non-state residents, the legislation mandated an increase of 60%, from $5 to $8. Please contact your Delegate TODAY and respectfully urge them to support SB1035 when it comes before them for a vote. Contact information can be found here. Also, thank you to all of the NRA members who took action in opposition to SB1166. Without you, this victory would not have been possible.
    HB1851 to be Considered on Monday! On Monday, February 23, the Senate Courts of Justice Committee will consider House Bill 1851, sponsored by Delegate L. Scott Lingamfelter (R-31). Simply stated, this NRA-backed bill will exempt active duty military personnel or Virginia National Guardsmen from Virginia's "one gun a month" law on handgun purchases. It is important that you contact the membersof the Senate Courts of Justice Committee and voice your support for this critical bill. Please contact the members of the committee TODAY and respectfully urge them to support SB1851. Contact information can be found here.


    [line]

    I highlighted (red)the text for easier reading.


    Do they not understand OC is legal or are they discouraging people from OCing.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  2. #2
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671

    Post imported post

    Now that's funny!

    (or sad)
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    394

    Post imported post

    I saw that and assumed the NRA simply didn't support OC.

    They should know the law. I suspect the real reason they decided not to remind people of the fact that OC was an option is because it made their case stronger.
    Find businesses that are pro gun...and those that aren't. Friend or Foe - Version 2 is online!

  4. #4
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    I just think the article was poorly prepared. It doesn't seem to advocate OC, but it concentrates solely on the concealment issue.

    That seems to me more like an error of omission than anything else.

    Perhaps a friendly note to the author might yield better results?
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    It is disappointing.

    I don't believe the NRA will ever support OC, there isn't any money in it.


    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia USA, ,
    Posts
    1,688

    Post imported post

    wylde007 wrote:
    I just think the article was poorly prepared. It doesn't seem to advocate OC, but it concentrates solely on the concealment issue.

    That seems to me more like an error of omission than anything else.

    Perhaps a friendly note to the author might yield better results?
    Perhaps it is an "error of omission"- if you plainly say "you have to disarm yourself completely" it gets people more interested in fighting it. They want the law overturned, so saying "well, you COULD open carry and get around it" they could lose advocacy on the issue since OC is a "loophole" to the issue entirely. Honestly, I think that has more to do with it than the NRA being "anti-OC" - pick your battles and frame them in a context

  7. #7
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    I don't believe the NRA will ever support OC, there isn't any money in it.
    And your foundation for that statement is what, exactly?:?

    hsmith wrote:
    Honestly, I think that has more to do with it than the NRA being "anti-OC" - pick your battles and frame them in a context
    There's a lot to be said for that, and I wish more people would recognize it. You don't want to necessarily provide the "option" of Open Carry when the intent is to enforce the conceal issue.

    It could very easily have been a statement designed around the concealment issue specifically.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    Full disclosure, it keeps everyone honest.

    Why wouldn't the NRA support OC.

    If they supported OC in all statesthey might loss money from CCW classes.
    The possible up sidewe might have more people exercising their 2A rights.

    A right is somethingI don't have to ask permission to do and take a mandatory class to excerise.

    Panic brings in more money, it is a fund raiser.






    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  9. #9
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    wylde007 wrote:
    That seems to me more like an error of omission than anything else.
    When I got the firstemail with the Omission as you call it, I took it as such.

    However, this is the second or third email with the same omission.

    An intentional omission is a lie or a overt act of deception.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  10. #10
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    Full disclosure, it keeps everyone honest.
    You may be on to something.

    Agent19 wrote:
    If they supported OC in all statesthey might lose money from CCW classes. The possible up sidewe might have more people exercising their 2A rights.
    It's interesting how you consider OC as a "right" and CC is a "privilege"... or did I read you wrong?
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    Self defense is my right regardless howI choose to carry.

    Those that say you need to ask the state to grant you a permit to carry are telling you it is a privilege as that privilege can be revoked.

    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  12. #12
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    Self defense is my right regardless howI choose to carry.
    In that case I misread you. Apologies. I also did not realize that there was a history of these "omissions" in their correspondence. However, I do still wonder if contacting the author might lend some additional insight.

    We "get" permits in order to be law-abiding citizens even if the law is abrogating or restrictive of our rights because, as a whole, we are LAW ABIDING citizens and know full-well that the restriction we are required to acquire a permit for is far-less restrictive than the imprisonment we might face for exercising a right in a manner that the nanny state considers theirs to dictate.

    A slippery slope, trying to advocate rights and oblige the law at the same time when there seems to be very little convergence of the two.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    wylde007 wrote:
    We "get" permits in order to be law-abiding citizens
    Agreed and I have a few, however I chose to OC and only carry/use my permit when legal OC isn't a option.

    No apology need.


    I'm still trying to figure out why the NRA doesn't support law abiding citizens OC'ing.
    IMHO, they are doing a huge disservice to those how could legally carry but couldn't getor want a permit.

    IMHO, they should be spear heading Vermont still laws regarding the carrying of firearms.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    leesburg, va, ,
    Posts
    68

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    I'm still trying to figure out why the NRA doesn't support law abiding citizens OC'ing.
    IMHO, they are doing a huge disservice to those how could legally carry but couldn't getor want a permit.
    I think it's been nailed in this thread already - saying 'oh well, you can still OC' isn't sensationalist enough to call people to action. The SOP of NRA communications for as long as I can remember is:

    Explain law.

    If law is 2A hostile, explain how you'll now be a criminal and/or worse.

    If law is 2A friendly, explain how bad things are for you and how much better off you'll be with this bill.

    In this case you've got the addition of the complete omission of OC possibility, which is strange, but nothing says that you can't OC, just that you can't CC. So rephrase this as:

    Currently, people who only wish to carry concealed who are dining in restaurants that serve alcoholmust leave their firearm at home orlocked in their vehicle, where it isat risk of being stolen.

    and that makes the statement slightly more realistic. I think the "at risk of being stolen" is the sensationalist catch phrase angle they want to work, that doesn't work if they include the possibility of OC. Possibly the thought is, if they remind people of their right to OC they'll accept that and not work hard on the legislation for CC.

    Maybe it's just boilerplate alert text that nobody bothered to research w/r/t existing laws, and just included pending legislation?

  15. #15
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    bdodds wrote: snip
    saying 'oh well, you can still OC' isn't sensationalist enough to call people to action.
    The SOP of NRA communications for as long as I can remember is:

    Explain law.
    Sure it is, many die hard CC'ers would never OC.
    It isn't tacticool.

    The sensationalist tactic might cause or has already caused problems for OC'ers.

    Many Gun owners take what the NRA has to say a gospel.

    The NRA not admitting OC is legal might have lead to the Tony's incident (alleged former marine called Police on OC'ers in a restaurant) or other incidents.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fallon, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    5,580

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    Full disclosure, it keeps everyone honest.

    Why wouldn't the NRA support OC.

    If they supported OC in all statesthey might loss money from CCW classes.
    The possible up sidewe might have more people exercising their 2A rights.

    A right is somethingI don't have to ask permission to do and take a mandatory class to excerise.

    Panic brings in more money, it is a fund raiser.
    ???

    What money does the NRA receive from any CCW class?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  17. #17
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    If you don't understand how the NRA makes money off the current CCW/CHP/LTCF permit system I can't help you.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,000

    Post imported post

    wrightme wrote:
    Agent19 wrote:
    Full disclosure, it keeps everyone honest.

    Why wouldn't the NRA support OC.

    If they supported OC in all statesthey might loss money from CCW classes.
    The possible up sidewe might have more people exercising their 2A rights.

    A right is somethingI don't have to ask permission to do and take a mandatory class to excerise.

    Panic brings in more money, it is a fund raiser.
    ???

    What money does the NRA receive from any CCW class?
    Not directly from the classes... but from having NRA Certified Instructors. That certification has to cost some money.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fallon, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    5,580

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    If you don't understand how the NRA makes money off the current CCW/CHP/LTCF permit system I can't help you.
    So you don't understand how the NRA allegedly makes such money? What mechanism provides funds to the NRA for a CCW class?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fallon, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    5,580

    Post imported post

    darthmord wrote:
    wrightme wrote:
    Agent19 wrote:
    Full disclosure, it keeps everyone honest.

    Why wouldn't the NRA support OC.

    If they supported OC in all statesthey might loss money from CCW classes.
    The possible up sidewe might have more people exercising their 2A rights.

    A right is somethingI don't have to ask permission to do and take a mandatory class to excerise.

    Panic brings in more money, it is a fund raiser.
    ???

    What money does the NRA receive from any CCW class?
    Not directly from the classes... but from having NRA Certified Instructors. That certification has to cost some money.
    Where is it stated that a CCW instructor has to be an NRA Certified Instructor? Is the CCW training an NRA curriculum? I have not seen it in any of my NRA Instructor material.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  21. #21
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    856

    Post imported post

    The NRA sells the materials required for NRA-sanctioned classes taught by NRA-certified instructors. I'm not sure how much, if any, profit they make off of these materials, but whatever it may be, it's not much.


  22. #22
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    No, but in VA (which is the forum we are discussing this in) a valid safety/shooter's class is acceptable if taught by an NRA-certified instructor, among others.

    While the permit itself has a set price, the classes do not. the instructor can be NRA-certified and then pass the expense of that certification, MANY TIMES OVER, on to other citizens who wish to be "law-abiding".
    I bet in VA it would be taken away if the voters had their say.
    Here? In the colonial homestead of liberty and revolution?

    Blasphemy.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    wrightme wrote:
    So you don't understand how the NRA allegedly makes such money?
    If that is your assumption then you are incorrect.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  24. #24
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    I have issues with what their email says, which at best is a error or worse a deceptive tactic (LIE).

    I totally understand the NRA is a business (all about the money)but don't see why stating the truth in their email would/could hurt their cause.

    Now, maybe if one of you die hard NRA supporters could explain it to me with out it leading back to finances.

    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  25. #25
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    Now, maybe if one of you die hard NRA supporters could explain it to me with out it leading back to finances.
    Good luck with that.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •