Motorcycle OC

poddus · Feb 23, 2009

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I tried posting this in the "Open Carry Questions" forum, but I realized maybe I should post here as I have questions about laws specifically in Ohio. Here goes:

Hey everyone, glad to have found the forums. I have a couple questions concerning open carry on a motorcycle. Summer's coming back around soon and that means it's time to break out the bike! It also means my 18th birthday is coming up and I've been getting ready to OC. The problem is I've been having a damned hard time finding the applicable laws. Here are the questions I've been trying to answer:

First off, is a motorcycle any different from a cabined vehicle? Going through the ORC and various legal synopses on the internet, I've come to the conclusion that it is unlawful to OC in a vehicle without a CHL. From what I understand, being on a motorcycle is not being "in" a vehicle, and from a practical perspective the law needn't apply. I understand it's purpose to be to keep surprises for LEOs to a minimum, but if I'm on a motorcycle the gun will be in plain view. To compound the problem there was apparently some major change in the law in Ohio sometime in '08 that pretty much invalidates all this stuff I've been reading. What's the deal?

Secondly, once you're OCing, what are you allowed to carry? I've got my trusty KaBar D2 that I'd like to take along as well, am I allowed to carry that alone or in addition to a handgun? What constitutes a deadly knife? Everyone I've talked to seems to have a different idea about this, from exact blade length to blade width to "as long as the blade isn't any longer than the width of your hand"... all very confusing stuff.

Third, I'm very supportive of the OC movement and want to continue carrying in general and be able to talk to people about it. I've scoured the forum and read a couple stories, but what kind of reactions should I be expecting from other civilians as well as any LEOs I may encounter in northeast Ohio?

Now getting into the practical side of it. I got a BlackHawk Serpa Holster for my baby, but I think a thigh rig is in order, as my suit zips together around the waist. Is there a way to convert my standard belt holster? After looking at it a bit I think I could jury-rig a solution with a couple of these:
http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Omega-Tactical-Holster-Leg-Strap,785,47.htm
but I was wondering if you guys had any ideas.

That's all I can think of right now (it's late), I know I've got more, I'll just post it as I remember. Oh, and if you don't mind the plug, I've been following this guy online for a while now. He does great reviews of everything manly

http://www.youtube.com/nutnfancy

cheers,

-poddus

Legba · Feb 23, 2009

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If you're under 21, and do not have a carry permit (which you can't get till then anyway), you will certainly get into serious trouble riding with a handgun strapped. There's no motorcycle loophole, I'm afraid. As for knives, I'm not aware of any restrictions on fixed-blade weapons. Switchblades, gravity knives, ballistic knives, and such are prohibite, but as long as it's not concealed, a "regular" knife is not forbidden, AFAIK.

-ljp

IxionDeece · Feb 23, 2009

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I am also planning on pulling out my bike here soon, so I am also curious as far as how to keep it with you on a bike, and unless I can find out otherwise I am just going to keep it in small "trunk" like space under my seat which is locked anyways...of course not loaded tho..but I am going to ask my brother in law when I get the chance (he is a leo), and if he dont know I will keep looking aslo, but if anyone does know please inform us....

thanks

Dustin

poddus · Feb 23, 2009

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Thanks for the responses, guys.

I do have one more thing I hope someone can clarify for me.

What about bicycles? Do vehicle laws apply to non-motorized vehicles, and what about public transportation?

-poddus

IxionDeece · Feb 23, 2009

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I am always glad to help when I can, but as far as bicycles I have no clue what the legalities are with that, my best guess is it would be about the same as walking,but I would definatly look more in the ORC to be definate, or as a state highway or sheriff

BB62 · Feb 24, 2009

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IF ONE HASA CHL:

Look on page 13 (the booklet's page 13, not the PDF viewer's page 13) of this booklet:

http://www.ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention/pubs/200808_ccw_book.pdf

you will see "Motorcycles fall under the definition of motor vehicles. Thus the same requirements apply..."

Just carry/transport your gun in one of the ways described.

On other matters... since you are not 21, how did you come across your gun? There may be issues (for you or others), depending on the answer. Legally, it may not even be *your* gun.

You cannot get a CHL from Ohio, nor will one be recognized from another state, because you are not 21.

IF the gun is legally yours (no CHL) one of the new things in the law says that you cannot transport it along with any loaded mags or speed loaders, whether in the gun or not.

As you see, there are/may be a number of things that can complicate an unequivocal answer.

jgregel · Feb 24, 2009

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You can't purchase a handgun until you are 21 in Ohio. I highly doubt that you could legally carry it.

With that said, at 18 years old, you could join the armed forces, fight and possibly give your life for your country but you are seen as not responsible enough to legally have a beer or own a handgun.??? Oh, that right... its the law, it don't have to make sense!!

John

poddus · Feb 24, 2009

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Thanks BB62. To clarify, the gun is a P229 that's been handed down to me by my parents, but I am not technically under ownership of it yet. I was looking at this particular part of the law and IANAL but if I interpreted it correctly, although I am not legally allowed to PURCHASE a handgun, it may be gifted to me so long as the person gifting it resides within the state of Ohio, and, even if I am not the lawful owner of the gun, I may be in possession of it so long as I follow all OC laws. Basically the only thing I can't do with the gun if I don't own it is sell it to someone else, which I'm not planning on doing anyway. (sorry, after some searching I'm having trouble finding where I saw this, so I can't cite anything right now)

I am aware that I cannot get a CHL until I am 21, which is why I was intending to OC, the motorcycle question was because I thought I am legally allowed to OC once I am 18, just not vehicle carry and I wanted to know if my motorcycle was an exception because, practically, the gun isn't concealed by a cabin. As jgregel mentioned though, the law doesn't necessarily have to make sense

, so now I'd really like some clarification on OC laws in general if you could please. Considering my circumstances, it it lawful for me to OC so long as I am not transporting the gun in a motor vehicle?

Speaking of which, you said that I could just transport the gun in the other ways prescribed. Does that mean I could carry the gun in a backpack on the motorcycle?

The loaded handgun is in a closed case, bag, box, or other container that is in plain sight and that has a lid, a cover, or a closing mechanism with a zipper, snap, or buckle, which lid, cover or closing mechanism must be opened for a person to gain access to the handgun

In the context of the booklet it seems that this is only allowed for CHL holders, are you saying I can do this as well?

I will try to clear anything else up if there's more you need to know.

thanks,

-poddus

poddus · Feb 24, 2009

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ok, update, apparently I won't be allowed to have the gun?

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.21

that whole chapter is full of stuff I should know, I'll be reading it over the next couple of days, but I was wondering I am interpreting this correctly; I could carry an AR-15 around but I am not allowed to carry a handgun?

jgregel · Feb 25, 2009

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2923.21 Improperly furnishing firearms to minor.
(A) No person shall do any of the following:
(1) Sell any firearm to a person who is under eighteen years of age;
(2) Subject to division (B) of this section, sell any handgun to a person who is under twenty-one years of age;
(3) Furnish any firearm to a person who is under eighteen years of age or, subject to division (B) of this section, furnish any handgun to a person who is under twenty-one years of age, except for lawful hunting, sporting, or educational purposes, including, but not limited to, instruction in firearms or handgun safety, care, handling, or marksmanship under the supervision or control of a responsible adult;

I would not even keep the gun in your possession until you are 21. As for the AR15, I guess that you could make the case that you are not allowed to carry a handgun yet and are concerned for your safety. By Ohio law you can open carry any gun that you can legally own.

In other circumstances I would say call your local police department but given that a lot of them don't even know that open carry is legal, this would be pointless. You could try contacting an attorney on this.

Good luck
John

RT48 · Feb 25, 2009

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jgregel wrote:

You can't purchase a handgun until you are 21 in Ohio. I highly doubt that you could legally carry it.

With that said, at 18 years old, you could join the armed forces, fight and possibly give your life for your country but you are seen as not responsible enough to legally have a beer or own a handgun.??? Oh, that right... its the law, it don't have to make sense!!

John

Starting in April, HB 450 will take effect which allows 18-20 yr old who are in the military to be able to legally purchase a handgun in Ohio.

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=127_HB_450

BB62 · Feb 25, 2009

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poddus wrote:

...

The loaded handgun is in a closed case, bag, box, or other container that is in plain sight and that has a lid, a cover, or a closing mechanism with a zipper, snap, or buckle, which lid, cover or closing mechanism must be opened for a person to gain access to the handgun

Click to expand...

In the context of the booklet it seems that this is only allowed for CHL holders, are you saying I can do this as well?

My emphasis above. NO, the booklet is for those who have a CHL. As I said above: "IF ONE HAS A CHL". I can see that my wording may have been confusing, however.

It appears that between yourself and jgregel, much of your questions have been answered about the gun being "yours", and what you can do with it by yourself (not much).

"Considering my circumstances, it it lawful for me to OC so long as I am not transporting the gun in a motor vehicle?"

Yes, it's lawful for you to OC, but it's unlawful for anyone to provide the gun to you so you can do so. That is a problem that I have with OCDO's maps - theydo not make clear that your OCing might cause legal problems for another.

"Speaking of which, you said that I could just transport the gun in the other ways prescribed. Does that mean I could carry the gun in a backpack on the motorcycle?"

Here are the legal methods of transporting a firearm (remembering that because of your age/and orlack of ownership you cannot transport a handgun by yourself):

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.16

BB62 · Feb 25, 2009

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RT48 wrote:

jgregel wrote:

You can't purchase a handgun until you are 21 in Ohio. I highly doubt that you could legally carry it.

With that said, at 18 years old, you could join the armed forces, fight and possibly give your life for your country but you are seen as not responsible enough to legally have a beer or own a handgun.??? Oh, that right... its the law, it don't have to make sense!!

John

Click to expand...

Starting in April, HB 450 will take effect which allows 18-20 yr old who are in the military to be able to legally purchase a handgun in Ohio.

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=127_HB_450

Of course, then there is the problem that the legislature did not make it legal for the gun to be sold to you!

I forget the ORC section that also needs to be changed, but it was referenced ona thread on OFCC's forums.

btw - two good Ohio places (there are more), each with forums:

www.ofcc.net

www.buckeyefirearms.org

Legba · Feb 25, 2009

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Yeah, this HB450is damned peculiar. I have a call in to ATF for clarification about what this means for dealers/people wanting to sell a gun to someone covered under this new law. Will apprise.

-ljp

poddus · Feb 25, 2009

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thanks everyone. This put a serious stop to my plans, but I'm very glad it did. Better safe than sorry, eh? I have half a mind to take the old AR-15 for a walk, but we're not exactly in the most gun-friendly neighborhood, so we'll see about that. Watch for me on national television! haha "crazed teenager flaunts assault rifle" ...juuuuuust kidding

thanks again,

-poddus

SlackwareRobert · Feb 25, 2009

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I know I am saving up for my 'arrest' for just that clause, I will be ON my motorcycle.

AL has the same wording with one good thing, Our judges can read at times,
at least on the appeals level, so I have a couple of on point case laws to use in
my defense. Not gun point, but language case law on point.
Just hope I can hold my mouth and not tell the judge he is welcome to write
his legislature and have the law changed more to his liking. Last time I said this
he found me in contempt. He was right I did hold his illiteracy in contempt.
On the plus side, I found out we had some UGLY hookers in lockup while
I flipped through the digital mug shots of the day.

I will be teaching my son at 14 how to make a gun, so he can build his own at 18
and then no one will need to break any law by selling/giving/anything else, he will
just make it and it will be his. Besides the selection of left eject port pistols is pretty slim.

Don't you just love that if you are unaware of a law it doesn't matter you broke it.
But if you can cite the law verbatin it also doesn't matter what it says.
Unless it is the legal definition of 'IS'.:cuss:

Guess I don't need to tell you to "keep your powder dry" since you can't have it with you.:banghead:

BB62 · Feb 25, 2009

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Poddus - I don't know what part of Ohio you live in (you may have chosen not to put it in), but there is a get-together in Dayton tomorrow night:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum43/21702.html

poddus · Feb 25, 2009

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yeah sorry, I'm all the way up in Cleveland, no can do. I'll be with you all in spirit

IxionDeece · Feb 25, 2009

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That is a shame poddus. I hope that in the future at some point you may be able to. Hopefully after we expand enough or maybe when it is warmer you can ride your bike.

Motorcycle OC

poddus

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Legba

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BB62

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