+1 I also believe that these fine young soldiers,sailors,airmen and marines will NOT throw down on our citizens and will believe and defend the constitution. The oath states "obey the lawful orders of the President and those officers appointed above me." Any order given must not violate the constitution, or the laws of land warfare, Geneva Convention etc. Of course I'm basing this on my own beliefs and faith in the soldiers I led and the officers I served under.SFCRetired wrote:I believe the message implies that "push has come to shove" and they are trying to get word to the various forces as a heads up. I believe that they also do believe that the people in the military will uphold their oaths. I think you would be hard pressed to find any rational individual today, that wouldn't agree that our government is largely ignoring our constitution. It is also very obvious to a large portion of the country that they are trying to eliminate capitalism and go socialist. A large majority of this country I don't believe will allow that to happen, without a fight.Sorry, but that boy does not sound like he is playing with a full deck.
I have enough faith in the current crop of American servicemen and women to fully believe that none of them will obey an order to proceed against their fellow Americans. I've had the distinct privilige and honor of serving with, leading, and being led bythese young men and women. I trust them.
It's their leaders in the Legislative and Executive branches that I have a problem with. I do believe that, if push came down to shove, the senior officers and noncoms of the services would not betray their oath.
I remember swearing to "defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."
I'd classify the current administration, along with quite a few members of congress as domestic threats to the constitution. :banghead:
Something to consider; a commissioned officers' oath does not include this phrase:+1 I also believe that these fine young soldiers,sailors,airmen and marines will NOT throw down on our citizens and will believe and defend the constitution. The oath states "obey the lawful orders of the President and those officers appointed above me." Any order given must not violate the constitution, or the laws of land warfare, Geneva Convention etc. Of course I'm basing this on my own beliefs and faith in the soldiers I led and the officers I served under.
I took the same oath as an Air Force Officer and current Air Force Civilian. Working with the guys I do today, CGOs and above, they aren't going to forget their oaths and become mindless SS because Obooba says so. Not so sure about the dumb fucks that are cops, however. I'd hope most would follow their oaths, but there are too many that have room temperature IQs to suit me.I remember swearing to "defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."
I'd classify the current administration, along with quite a few members of congress as domestic threats to the constitution. :banghead:
KansasMustang wrote:Something to consider; a commissioned officers' oath does not include this phrase:+1 I also believe that these fine young soldiers,sailors,airmen and marines will NOT throw down on our citizens and will believe and defend the constitution. The oath states "obey the lawful orders of the President and those officers appointed above me." Any order given must not violate the constitution, or the laws of land warfare, Geneva Convention etc. Of course I'm basing this on my own beliefs and faith in the soldiers I led and the officers I served under.
"obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me."
An officer's oath is first and foremost to the Constitution, then to the well and faithfulexecution of his duties- which points right back to the Constitution.
Not sure about the other services, but in the LAMS (leadership and management) course that we are required to take at E-5, teaches us to question and re-evaluate orders we receive all the time based upon ethics, logic and probable outcome.I wish I could be as optimistic as you all about any branch of the military or law enforcement disobeying orders in favor of the Constitution. Such mass disobedience hasn't happened in our history, quite the contrary: the Bonus Army, Kent State, Katrina, etc. We fought a Civil War on orders rather than keeping to the Constitution.
As Col. Nathan Jessup says, "We follow orders, son. We follow orders or people die. It's that simple."
The current oath is specified in 5 USC 3331:JosephMingle wrote:Yes it does, or it did when I took it in the '70s, at least.Something to consider; a commissioned officers' oath does not include this phrase:
"obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me."
That's the oath I took as an Air Force civilian. As I said, the oath I took as an officer was as noted. I see that the current oath was updated in Jan 07.Gunslinger wrote:The current oath is specified in 5 USC 3331:JosephMingle wrote:Yes it does, or it did when I took it in the '70s, at least.Something to consider; a commissioned officers' oath does not include this phrase:
"obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me."
An individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services, shall take the following oath: “I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.” This section does not affect other oaths required by law.
To the Constitution, against its enemies. Nothing at all about obeying the chain of command.
I honestly busted out laughing after reading that.I'd hope most (LEOs) would follow their oaths, but there are too many that have room temperature IQs to suit me.
What are you laughing at??!!! You used to be one!! :lol:Gunslinger wrote:I honestly busted out laughing after reading that.I'd hope most (LEOs) would follow their oaths, but there are too many that have room temperature IQs to suit me.
Then I realized you're correct. Scary thought! :shock:
What are you laughing at??!!! You used to be one!! :lol:
Room temperature IQ.. classic!!! :lol:
It would depend on their position in the organization and how comfortable they would be in questioning it and under what conditions (routine, stressed, emergency, etc.) they would be questioning it. At my rank, I have more luxury and knowledge to question such orders than say, a SN out of boot camp. Conversely, I also have much more of a chance to be the one giving such orders than that SN. I also have more responsibility of ownership of any order I give or carry out than that SN.In my experience most LEOs and military will not follow an outrightillegal order. The problem is that many are not in a position to determine of an order is legal or not. For many who are not in this position it may seem simple but it really is not as clear as we might all wish.