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Thread: Response from Del. Frank Hargrove

  1. #1
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    Dear Mr. _________,



    Thank you for contacting me and making me aware of your desire to support SB1035, which eliminates the ban on concealed weapons in restaurants that serve alcohol. I have consistently voted against repealing this law in the past, and I am inclined to vote against it in 2009. Though I understand your desire to carry your concealed weapon with you for personal protection, I just cannot reconcile my strong belief about not mixing guns and alcohol with that position. Never the less I will listen intently on the debate on the floor before casting my vote.



    ****************************



    My response to him:



    Dear Del. Hargrove,



    Thank you for the response. I would like to make several points that I hope show that your concerns are unfounded.



    First, and perhaps most importantly, concealed handgun permit (CHP) holders are among the most law-abiding citizens. Nationwide, only a tiny fraction of such permits are revoked for cause. In some states, CHP holders are statistically more law-abiding than police officers!



    Second, Virginians already can legally carry guns into establishments that serve alcohol. They must, however, openly carry their gun. You might be surprised to learn than many people in Virginia, even in the greater Richmond area, open carry guns into restaurants that serve alcohol every day. I am not aware of any problems that have been caused in Virginia by law-abiding citizens openly carrying guns into restaurants (and we both know that any such incident would be very widely reported in the media). The lack of such problems clearly shows that CHP holders can be trusted to carry guns concealed into restaurants that serve alcohol.



    Third, law-abiding citizens should not have to give up our self-defense rights to enjoy a night out. While there may be a low likelihood of needing a gun in the restaurant, such incidents do happen. See http://www.nranews.com/blogarticle.a...ogPostId=404). Of course, the most dangerous part of the night out is the walk from the restaurant to the car.



    I hope that you will reconsider your opposition to SB1035.



    Sincerely,





  2. #2
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    I hope that your handle is meant to be ironic in some way...

    On to your topic... all you need to do is bring up the Luby's massacre. If that doesn't change someone's "opinion" about carrying a defensive weapon, they are a lost cause.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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  3. #3
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Not a bad reply letter. One point I would have added is that in addition to the fact that many Virginians legally open carry into restaurants every day, there is no requirement for those citizens to have any background check of any sort in order to do that. This amplifies the probability that allowing CHP holders to conceal will not likely result in any problems.

    TFred


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    wylde007 wrote:
    I hope that your handle is meant to be ironic in some way...
    My handle is only intended to indicate that I grew up in the North and moved to the South. I am aware of the negative historicalconnotations of the term, but I use it in the modern sense.

    TFred - I had thought about adding something like that, but left it out for the sake of brevity.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    I wonder what your Delegate thinks of Commonwealth's Attorneys carrying concealed in restaurants and drinking alcoholic beverages?

    That was made legal last year:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?081+sum+SB776



    Curiously, Hargrove did not vote. You could ask why.



  6. #6
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Or the one that was recently arrested in Norfolk on Possession w/ Intent to Distribute?
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  7. #7
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    Ask him to point out once case nation wide anywhere of someone with a CHP getting drunk at a bar/restaruant and shooting someone.

    Another idiot who votes with emotion, feckless fools.

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    hsmith wrote:
    Ask him to point out once case nation wide anywhere of someone with a CHP getting drunk at a bar/restaruant and shooting someone.

    Another idiot who votes with emotion, feckless fools.
    My Delegate had one instantly when I asked him to support this bill on Lobby Day. Eight years ago in Blacksburg there was an issue with a someone CC'ing and drinking. My reply was that if they were drinking then they would clearly be in violation of the law as proposed in the current bill.

    The only thing I could find was about Kerry and Terry Scales in 1997 shooting someone in a Blacksburg restaurant...over who would get to dance with a woman first (Really?!). Were they CC holders? Anyone remember this incident?

    :?

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    TFred wrote:
    Not a bad reply letter. One point I would have added is that in addition to the fact that many Virginians legally open carry into restaurants every day, there is no requirement for those citizens to have any background check of any sort in order to do that. This amplifies the probability that allowing CHP holders to conceal will not likely result in any problems.

    TFred
    That one could be a two edged sword. If this legilator is as strongly against guns around alcohol and if he is like some of the legislators we have here in Alabama, he might just introduce a bill to ban all firearm carry in restaurants that serve alcohol.

  10. #10
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    acrimsontide wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    Not a bad reply letter. One point I would have added is that in addition to the fact that many Virginians legally open carry into restaurants every day, there is no requirement for those citizens to have any background check of any sort in order to do that. This amplifies the probability that allowing CHP holders to conceal will not likely result in any problems.

    TFred
    That one could be a two edged sword. If this legilator is as strongly against guns around alcohol and if he is like some of the legislators we have here in Alabama, he might just introduce a bill to ban all firearm carry in restaurants that serve alcohol.
    But the fact that it isn't and hasn't been a problem at all should show them they are wrong. Probably not a high risk, since most legislators would realize that, and such a bill would get nowhere. Bad bills get introduced every year and at every level.

    TFred

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    My delegate made her views known on her blog (http://www.7-west.org) and I have already commented.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  12. #12
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    This is Hargrove's last year anyway. He should have been out long ago.

  13. #13
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    When I give the "firearms law lecture" in NRA courses, I generally tell people that it's a problem for me as a marketing tool for my law practice, even though each of them will be carrying my card in his wallet. That's because people who go to the trouble to get the permit and who survive the background check are the most law-abiding, self-reliant, and socially responsible people on the planet. Not the sort of people who generate business for lawyers. You can tell your delegate I said so.

    And here's another couple of little quips: If passing laws makes the place safer, how do you explain Prince George's County, Maryland? And what do you do about the people who don't care what the law is?
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    kenny wrote:
    This is Hargrove's last year anyway. He should have been out long ago.
    Yes he should have been out years ago. No one will run against the old bald SOB though. He's pulled more fast moves....like having his son put in as the Circuit Court Clerk, when Shelton and Dickie Taylor had their fight.

    There was an instance years ago with one of his relatives (a Judge) getting drunk while carrying a firearm. I never did find out how that came out.

    Anything the insurance institution wants, Frank tries to push through.

    I'll be glad when he's gone....unless something worse replaces him.

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    Tess wrote:
    My delegate made her views known on her blog (http://www.7-west.org) and I have already commented.
    Tess I think something is wrong with your link because when I clicked on the link it was written as http://www.7-west.org%29/in the address bar just to let you know.

  16. #16
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    Sleepless wrote:
    Tess wrote:
    My delegate made her views known on her blog (http://www.7-west.org) and I have already commented.
    Tess I think something is wrong with your link because when I clicked on the link it was written as http://www.7-west.org%29/in the address bar just to let you know.
    This bulletin board software does not handle links well. This one should work:

    http://www.7-west.org/

    When the link was placed in parentheses in the text stream, the software interpreted the ")" as part of the link. It's best to make sure there are no other characters used next to a link.

    TFred


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    Tess wrote:
    My delegate made her views known on her blog (http://www.7-west.org) and I have already commented.
    Which blog entry?



  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    KBCraig wrote:
    Tess wrote:
    My delegate made her views known on her blog (http://www.7-west.org) and I have already commented.
    Which blog entry?
    "From the horoscope" Try this; I fixed the link.

    This software doesn't like straight links; it prefers the bracketed bbs code
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  19. #19
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    Frank Hargrove is a family friend. My father has a very close relationship with him and I've been to his farm groundhog hunting, etc. I'm surprised to see he voted against this.

    I'll get in touch with him and see if I can change his views on this for future reference.
    Find businesses that are pro gun...and those that aren't. Friend or Foe - Version 2 is online!

  20. #20
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Tess wrote:
    KBCraig wrote:
    Tess wrote:
    My delegate made her views known on her blog (http://www.7-west.org) and I have already commented.
    Which blog entry?
    "From the horoscope" Try this; I fixed the link.

    This software doesn't like straight links; it prefers the bracketed bbs code
    Actually, straight links are one of the things that this bb software can handle, I use them all the time. The problem is you can't add punctuation around the link, such as parentheses, or even a period if at the end of a sentence. That is what confused it with this first attempt.

    TFred


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