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Thread: FBI Director Warns of Terror Attacks on U.S. Cities

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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

    "FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III today warned that extremists "with large agendas and little money can use rudimentary weapons" to sow terror, raising the specter that recent attacks in Mumbai that killed 170 people last year could embolden terrorists seeking to attack U.S. cities. At a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations in Washington, Mueller said that the bureau is expanding its focus beyond al-Qaeda and into splinter groups, radicals who try to enter the country through the visa waiver program and "home-grown terrorists."
    "The universe of crime and terrorism stretches out infinitely before us, and we too are working to find what we believe to be out there but cannot always see," Mueller said.
    One particular concern, the FBI director said, springs from the country's background as a "nation of immigrants." Federal officials worry about pockets of possible radicals among melting-pot communities in the United States such as Seattle, San Diego, Miami or New York."

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    One would think that such an attack in the U.S. would likely be stopped by armed citizens before so many lives were lost. Unlike the Indians which tried to stop them by throwing rocks, we will stop them with lead projectiles, many of which traveling faster than the speed of sound.

    Although if they targeted a mass-disarmament zone like a large sprawling university, they might only be challenged by book throwers, unfortunately.

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    Felid`Maximus wrote:
    One would think that such an attack in the U.S. would likely be stopped by armed citizens before so many lives were lost. Unlike the Indians which tried to stop them by throwing rocks, we will stop them with lead projectiles, many of which traveling faster than the speed of sound.

    Although if they targeted a mass-disarmament zone like a large sprawling university, they might only be challenged by book throwers, unfortunately.
    Yes - I posted this as a new topic:

    I am not pleased to write this but I have been reading threads (in the media) and ascertaining trends based on some quick lessons I got from a buddy who retired from the Army after many years of combat and military intelligence where they trained him to read threads in the media and ascertain trends.

    It just 'clicked' for me - I just expressed it to my wife and now I'm expressing it here -

    I believe the greatest threat to the freedom of ourselves, our families, and our Constitutional rights lies in nefarious orchestration of events based on a less-than-foolproof plan ~

    Be on the lookout for the following, and may it never come to pass, and if it does, may good, strong-hearted, freedom loving people step in to stop it or the worst might happen - I do not say this lightly.

    None of you know me and have no reason to take what I've said as any form of truth - read the threads in the media, ascertain trends, decide for yourself.

    I believe that in Heller, Justice Scalia was actually WARNING us - telling all able bodied men & women that they must be part of a citizens militia to be there as a distributed safety net - a backbone - reminding us why the Second Amendment is there in the first place.

    I believe that it is not beyond Powers that Be from orchestrating Mumbai as an experiment in urban terror using 'rudimentary arms' -

    I believe that it is not beyond Powers that Be from orchestrating a Mumbai-style attack in the US using 'rudimentary arms' -

    Reported today, but contained in a speech Sunday before the Council on Foreign Relations, FBI Director Mueller says that there is a major threat of homegrown terrorism in a Mumbai style attack using 'rudimentary arms' - especially in cities with high levels of immigrant populations specifically including New York, Miami, San Diego, Seattle (I would think Chicago and LA would be on the list). They mention Minneapolis in the article as the place from which the only known US citizen who became suicide bomber (Somalia) is from.

    Here's the risk I have identified, and again, I believe that Americans working together will neutralize this risk:

    1) Nefarious forces orchestrate a Mumbai style attack in a major US city - it hardly matters where and who is involved except that they are nefarious ~ it would appear in the form of some class of immigrants (East Asian, Pakistani, or Indonesian) even if they are put up to it by non-immigrants -

    2) In response and to 'calm' Americans, BO signs an Executive Order restricting 'rudimentary arms' of the type used (probably including .223, AKs, ARs, and many high capacity and semi-auto handguns) -

    3) Restriction on arms triggers major problems - no need to elaborate - but this would be the sucker-punch of all-time. Those that stand up too hard, could find themselves in some huge FEMA run detention camp - it would not be a good scene at all.....

    To Neutralize (some ideas and proposed actions):

    A) Maximum situational awareness - if and when it happens, there will be LEO, and CC responses. Being prepared for this is paramount IMHO - including having cellphone charged with 911 on speed dial and calling it in -

    This includes being well-dressed and clean-shaven and well-behaved lest our CC people are confused with Mumbai-style attackers - we need to be clear that we're the good guys - (I personally will be reminding myself to interact more with shopkeepers and police officers to foster more awareness about how we can work together to prevent Mumbai-style attackers -)

    B) Turnaround situation - rather than allow terror to be generated, law enforcement and private citizens bearing arms put down the terrorist attackers fast. There is no lengthy media coverage of terrorists walking around with impunity near incompetent looking police forces such as we saw with Mumbai - rather, we are going to see Americans at their best, working together to thwart any such threat or attack -

    If we show that we are not 'terrorized' by the attempt and are happy with the response and result, there will be no reason for any restrictive Executive Order - if it happens, we want the result to be - "Wow, I'm proud to be an American" and "Did you see how fast SWAT came?" and "Lucky there were a few armed private citizens there under the Second Amendment to take down a few of the bad guys, one of their leaders, break up their communications and keep them off their plans until the SWAT arrived" and "No one's gonna try THAT again in America."

    C) Nefarious Plans are Never Foolproof - everyone and anyone can and will find their own ways to peacefully and/or self-defensively neutralize such threat or attack - somewhere along the way, some message will be intercepted, some error will be made by the Bad Guys and whoever is there in the right place at the right time, PLEASE - do not hesitate - carpe diem - it MIGHT all be up to you, yes YOU ~

    D) Public Disclosures - Nefarious Plans require secrecy - so the more transparency the better - the more light of day - the better - if you get a hold of something real and factual, post it far and wide asap -

    E) This Ain't No Party; This Ain't No Disco, This Ain't No Fooling Around - like the song says, this ain't no fooling around - I had a feeling like this before 9/11 happened; I'm having a feeling again of unease - I am not usually the kind of person who lies awake at night but recently....my internal alarms are going off....

    F) Spread the Word - the more people who see the possibility, the more can prevent the damage - I honestly believe this is how we re-focus on being Americans and protecting each other and putting our differences aside even if temporarily (a 'time-out') to do it - once things settle down, we can get back to our differences

    G) Failure Would Be Our Fault - if this crisis rises to the level of Constitutional proportions, we have failed and it will be our fault because the "Buck" Really Does Stop Here. Do you want to have to explain to your children where you were and what you were doing and that you could have done something more? I would rather express that we came together and met the threat head on, prevailed and lived to tell the tale.

    H) Please someone convince me I'm wrong. Tell me I don't know squat and why because I want to be wrong about my conclusions about these trends.

    I) God Bless us and all those for freedom, may our heads be clear, our hearts strong, our eyes focused, our brains smart, our aim true, our ammo good, our arms effective and may those who would strike with terror against our people fall hard and fast.

    ***

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

    "FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III today warned that extremists "with large agendas and little money can use rudimentary weapons" to sow terror, raising the specter that recent attacks in Mumbai that killed 170 people last year could embolden terrorists seeking to attack U.S. cities. At a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations in Washington, Mueller said that the bureau is expanding its focus beyond al-Qaeda and into splinter groups, radicals who try to enter the country through the visa waiver program and "home-grown terrorists."

    "The universe of crime and terrorism stretches out infinitely before us, and we too are working to find what we believe to be out there but cannot always see," Mueller said.
    One particular concern, the FBI director said, springs from the country's background as a "nation of immigrants." Federal officials worry about pockets of possible radicals among melting-pot communities in the United States such as Seattle, San Diego, Miami or New York."

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    While I like to think that armed citizens would if not deter or stop such an attack, at least mitigate some of the damages, I doubt that would be the case. Firstly, if we had good data I think we would find that the majority of those who carry firearms in most states live and spend most of their time outside of the major cities of the given state whereas the most likely US targets are the major cities. Secondly, more than half of the most likely US targets are in essentially gun-free states.

    The federal gov't has utterly abrogated its responsibility to protect the states from invasion through its failure to secure the border and its porous, ineffective, failed immigration policy towards people who are likely to include those who would harm Americans. This is the consequence and creates a clear and present danger for any and all Americans.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    ...good food for thought and reason to prepare...what has Homeland Security done to make us safer? All I can see is money spent...not one poster or ad to tell us what to look for, what to do or not do...even in WWII, there were posters in the plants about "Loose lips sink ships"....not even that...I firmly believe it's up to us to keep our families safe...not relying on gov't...who'll likely get there in time to clean up...one more case of why rely on the gov't to do for us what we can do for ourselves...

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    TatankaGap wrote:
    One particular concern, the FBI director said, springs from the country's background as a "nation of immigrants." Federal officials worry about pockets of possible radicals among melting-pot communities in the United States such as Seattle, San Diego, Miami or New York."
    In 1942Democrats were worried about the same thing they are worried about today.They used internment camps. Sure hope they don't try that again. I am a free man. I will not go, I will stay and fight.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    TatankaGap wrote:
    One particular concern, the FBI director said, springs from the country's background as a "nation of immigrants." Federal officials worry about pockets of possible radicals among melting-pot communities in the United States such as Seattle, San Diego, Miami or New York."
    In 1942Democrats were worried about the same thing they are worried about today.They used internment camps. Sure hope they don't try that again. I am a free man. I will not go, I will stay and fight.
    One of the greatest allies that the terrorists have is the Bill of Rights. As was pointed out what do we look for. Maybe we look for a "suspicious" character but just because he looks suspicious doesn't he have the same rights as anyone else. As we fume about MWAG calls do wecall aboutMWA Possible Bomb? Do we allow the police to chack someone for looking suspicious but for no other reason? We talk about how the 911 terrorsist should have been caught long before then by the FBI/CIA/... but if they had not hijacked the planes we would have cried about their rights being abused. Do terrorist have rights before they blow up something? It is a thin line we walk to protect the constitution and sometimes we fail. Internment camps seemed like a good idea to someone but it is just one more part of our history where the constituion was voided.

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    Despite popular opinion, terrorist are not idiots. They will attack where they know they can do the most damage, innocents or otherwise, with the fewest amount of casualties of their own, tho recent events have shown they typically don't care.

    In either case of suicide terrorist attackor a surgical strike, the first responders are going to be armed citizens attempting to minimize the damage the terrorists do. States such as California and New York are far more likely candidates due to few armed citizens and large, dense, urban populations. Known LE and emergency response times will also factor in.

    The point is that the faster the threat is neutralized the more people and property will be saved, and those states that empower their citizens through useand carry of firearms thebest,will resist and respondmuch more efficiently, and the terrorists know it.

    As the saying goes for such cities and states that disarm their populations,

    "Notice to Criminals, terrorists & gang-bangers, the population has been disarmed for your convenience."



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    TatankaGap wrote:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

    "FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III today warned that extremists "with large agendas and little money can use rudimentary weapons" to sow terror, raising the specter that recent attacks in Mumbai that killed 170 people last year could embolden terrorists seeking to attack U.S. cities. At a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations in Washington, Mueller said that the bureau is expanding its focus beyond al-Qaeda and into splinter groups, radicals who try to enter the country through the visa waiver program and "home-grown terrorists."
    "The universe of crime and terrorism stretches out infinitely before us, and we too are working to find what we believe to be out there but cannot always see," Mueller said.
    One particular concern, the FBI director said, springs from the country's background as a "nation of immigrants." Federal officials worry about pockets of possible radicals among melting-pot communities in the United States such as Seattle, San Diego, Miami or New York."
    I don't fear "terrorists" who walk around and pray to "allah" 3 times a day or wear Arab clothing...I fear the "terrorists" who walk among us every day and wear $5000 Armani suits and sit in the highest positions of power in this country in both business and politics, and who have the ability to strip us of our rights, declare any of us "enemy combatants" throw us in a military brig, torture us and simply make us disappear......


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    suntzu wrote:
    TatankaGap wrote:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

    "FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III today warned that extremists "with large agendas and little
    I don't fear "terrorists" who walk around and pray to "allah" 3 times a day or wear Arab clothing...I fear the "terrorists" who walk among us every day and wear $5000 Armani suits and sit in the highest positions of power in this country in both business and politics, and who have the ability to strip us of our rights, declare any of us "enemy combatants" throw us in a military brig, torture us and simply make us disappear......


    +1

    My thoughts exactly

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    ...I don't "fear" either...but I recognize the danger in both...and stay alert and prepare...for both....I think most of us do....I believe that the average gun owner has a better understanding of how quickly things can turn bad than most politicians who have been insulated from real life, to a great degree...now if we could just unite...we could change the country....real change....

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    TatankaGap wrote:
    One particular concern, the FBI director said, springs from the country's background as a "nation of immigrants." Federal officials worry about pockets of possible radicals among melting-pot communities in the United States such as Seattle, San Diego, Miami or New York."
    One the one hand, thisis a nation of immigrants. On the other hand it is no longer the melting pot andwhat should be of concern are the suburbs of Detroit where the prayer calls ring out five times a day. One reason we have not experienced another September 11......

    "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."
    -Isoroku Yamamoto

    Remember the Texas Tower? The first people to shoot back were civilians puling hunting rifles out of their vehicles and God Bless the people of flight 93but I do believewe will bestruck again and it will be worse than Sept. 11.

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    I think the worst idea is that people try and act that you can't be intelligent and educated and still have a desire to own and be proficient with guns.

    Wars and security are not only won by uneducated youngsters.

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    I listen in on a radiation health physics listserv (an ancillary skill from my career). We have had a few comments recently discussing the unlikelyness of a 'dirty bomb'.

    'Mass specific activity' makes such a device either trivial and relatively harmless or as technically difficult as a fission device (middle ground excluded!). It is not philosophically, logically or technically reasonable to say such cannot happen, but it isn't likely or it would have already happened.

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    ...Doug, how about the one that's supposed to stop all electronic activity? Would that be a momentary interruption? How widespread would it be? It seems that disrupting our communications would benefit them most...but it would also disrupt theirs...

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    A high altitude nuclear event is beyond the capabilities of less than state-entities - to lift and to build to be lifted. Its effect is first determined by altitude and then by magnitude of released energy (even a big device on the ground causes minimal disruption).

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    sheepdog wrote:
    ...Doug, how about the one that's supposed to stop all electronic activity? Would that be a momentary interruption? How widespread would it be? It seems that disrupting our communications would benefit them most...but it would also disrupt theirs...
    You are speaking of an Electro Magnetic Pulse blast?
    It would take in my opinion an atmospheric nuclear attack from a normal state actor in order for such an event to occur. China, or North Korea would possibly be the two primary aggressors in such a scenario. A non state entity would be unable to have the means to produce such an occurrence, UNLESS the non state actors could gain entrance to a launch facility-highly unlikely, unless they had someone on the inside--OR gain access to a mobile launcher like those which have been used by the Russians for some time--the Topol M for example, is a road mobile launcher...but to gain access to something like that the non state actors would need not only current, actionable intelligence as to where the launcher was deployed, but also the size of the Russian force currently guarding it, their means of communications would obviousy have to be cut so as to prevent signaling for reinforcement, current officer locations, and so on. With enough information a non state actor could conceivably gain access to a Russian mobile launcher--the results of that would be unpleasant to say the least.

    I would think an EMP would knock out communications, including all computers--newer automobiles included would all be eliminated in such an event--and I would think the blackout would occur over quite a large area.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    I listen in on a radiation health physics listserv (an ancillary skill from my career). We have had a few comments recently discussing the unlikelyness of a 'dirty bomb'.

    'Mass specific activity' makes such a device either trivial and relatively harmless or as technically difficult as a fission device (middle ground excluded!). It is not philosophically, logically or technically reasonable to say such cannot happen, but it isn't likely or it would have already happened.
    Actually, a 'dirty bomb' is called an RDD - Radiation Dispersal Device - it is considered a Weapon of Mass Disruption, not a Weapon of Mass Destruction - you can google the NRC or IAEA or NNSA (US National Nuclear Security Agency) - all those describe an RDD - it is said that it might cause psychological disruption, especially at time when the public psyche is fragile (like now) -

    The RDD threat should not be underestimated.

    If you were exposed, I understand that it's good to eat lots of seaweed and algae to help process it and maybe use Indian clay to draw it out -

    Wondering if your radiation health physics board has any other tips?



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    I thought the DC sniper already accomplished the small arm terror attack.
    It looked that way on the news down here anyways.

    Still waiting for the ban on autos with trunks you can shoot out of.
    Maybe a half body capacity is needed for all car trunks to stop this from reoccuring.

    Now lets watch what gets the bad press, 1 person shot, or 3 people stabbed.
    Bet they only scream gun control in IL, not a word for knife registration.


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    TatankaGap wrote:
    If you were exposed, I understand that it's good to eat lots of seaweed and algae to help process it and maybe use Indian clay to draw it out -

    Wondering if your radiation health physics board has any other tips?
    Yep. "Time, distance and shielding" and allopathic medicine (contra 'alternative').

    For instance, 'exposure' is not 'contamination' is not ingestion.

    Radiation and contamination are well explained by the allegory of "Dog Poo on Your Shoe". Dog poo on your shoe is contamination. The stink of dog poo is its radiation out into space. Do not ever ingest dog poo. The contamination can be prevented by the use of personal protective equipment like galoshes.

    Exposure to the stink can be avoided by staying far enough away (distance), only sniffing it briefly (time) or covering it with shielding.

    If you are contaminated then shower with lots of soap and detergent and water (dilution is the solution to pollution).

    If you ingest dog poo then puke it out, piss it out and crap it out at the highest rate possible. How long each atom of poo stays inside you is a measure of badness. Eating poo like atoms will help replace the bad poo atoms with good atoms.

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    suntzu wrote:
    sheepdog wrote:
    ...Doug, how about the one that's supposed to stop all electronic activity? Would that be a momentary interruption? How widespread would it be? It seems that disrupting our communications would benefit them most...but it would also disrupt theirs...
    You are speaking of an Electro Magnetic Pulse blast?
    It would take in my opinion an atmospheric nuclear attack from a normal state actor in order for such an event to occur. China, or North Korea would possibly be the two primary aggressors in such a scenario. A non state entity would be unable to have the means to produce such an occurrence, UNLESS the non state actors could gain entrance to a launch facility-highly unlikely, unless they had someone on the inside--OR gain access to a mobile launcher like those which have been used by the Russians for some time--the Topol M for example, is a road mobile launcher...but to gain access to something like that the non state actors would need not only current, actionable intelligence as to where the launcher was deployed, but also the size of the Russian force currently guarding it, their means of communications would obviousy have to be cut so as to prevent signaling for reinforcement, current officer locations, and so on. With enough information a non state actor could conceivably gain access to a Russian mobile launcher--the results of that would be unpleasant to say the least.

    I would think an EMP would knock out communications, including all computers--newer automobiles included would all be eliminated in such an event--and I would think the blackout would occur over quite a large area.
    According to then CIA head Tenet, an atomic bomb can be had by non-state actors for about $100 million - clearly in their budget range. As far as missiles go, I agree with the above post - especially the threat form North Korea, but it is not beyond the abilities of terrorists to get an atomic bomb, steal a plane and blast it off in the atmosphere - or in a truck near a major piece of Americana or infrastructure (nuke plant, huge dam, etc.) -

    If you're really interested about this, I suggest you check out the recent WMD Commission Report (2008), recent pronouncements by the NNSA (mostly to do with fixes that need to be made to foster nuclear security), and there are some good articles available on google by a guy named David Albright (ISIS) -

    And even tho, North Korea has missiles, I don't think China would allow them to launch radioactive weapons against the US for fear of ruining their real estate collateral -

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    TatankaGap wrote:
    If you were exposed, I understand that it's good to eat lots of seaweed and algae to help process it and maybe use Indian clay to draw it out -

    Wondering if your radiation health physics board has any other tips?
    Yep. "Time, distance and shielding" and allopathic medicine (contra 'alternative').

    For instance, 'exposure' is not 'contamination' is not ingestion.

    Radiation and contamination are well explained by the allegory of "Dog Poo on Your Shoe". Dog poo on your shoe is contamination. The stink of dog poo is its radiation out into space. Do not ever ingest dog poo. The contamination can be prevented by the use of personal protective equipment like galoshes.

    Exposure to the stink can be avoided by staying far enough away (distance), only sniffing it briefly (time) or covering it with shielding.

    If you are contaminated then shower with lots of soap and detergent and water (dilution is the solution to pollution).

    If you ingest dog poo then puke it out, piss it out and crap it out at the highest rate possible. How long each atom of poo stays inside you is a measure of badness. Eating poo like atoms will help replace the bad poo atoms with good atoms.
    Sorry fot the threadjack, but....

    Doug, are you an ex-nuke? The poo on the shoe analogy is what we taught nubbly officers at Charleston when I was an instructor.

    Regards,

    Pol

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    PM'ed a long personal response.

    I'm sorry that you had to use shoe poo for 0-gangers. How'd they handle their calculus?

    Did you get in trouble with the feds NRRO/NRC like we did when we tried to teach cleaners and insulators with poo on the shoe?


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    and here comes the Liberal push that all gun owners are domestic terrorists....

    When they come for mine, I won't be a domestic terrorist. A terrorist seeks to spread, duh, terror. The only one who need fear me, is the one trying to take my gun...

    So if that makes me a domestic terrorist, I wear the label with pride.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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