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Thread: Need help --is this full auto?

  1. #1
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    This was just posted on my site today. It appears to me it could be a full auto lower reciever, but I don't know much about machine guns. The selector switch is what has me wondering. I havent asked the seller yet, want to see what you all think.

    For $200 if this is a full auto its probably not registered and doesnt need to be on my site !!

    THANKS

    http://www.vaguntrader.com/view_topi...amp;forum_id=8

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Yeah if it were me, I would delete it until I figured out the legalities of such an item.

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    Yes that looks appears to have the safe/semi/full selector switch so NFA rules must be adhered to.

    I am basing that on it looking like a HK G3 Navy lower I have seen else where that said NFA rules applied althought it was in better shape it resembled the one pictured.


    Edited to add...

    Do a search for HK93 Navy lower I think you will find they are not that expensive for the lower assembly usually, I wanted to say I have seen them for 100-250 depending on shape again this is just from memory though.

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    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=123641184

    I see this but the markings are different, it got FIRE and SAFE, not an A which I'm thinking it AUTO

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    Thndr wrote:
    Yes that looks appears to have the safe/semi/full selector switch so NFA rules must be adhered to.

    I am basing that on it looking like a HK G3 Navy lower I have seen else where that said NFA rules applied althought it was in better shape it resembled the one pictured.


    Edited to add...

    Do a search for HK93 Navy lower I think you will find they are not that expensive for the lower assembly usually, I wanted to say I have seen them for 100-250 depending on shape again this is just from memory though.
    No.

    I have a lower with Safe/Semi/Auto markings. It not a NFA item, if it were, it would have the hole drilled through it above the "SEMI" position, merely having the "AUTO" selector option does not make it auto nor does it make it registered. A registered lower will have the drilled hole through the top.

    note the whole going through above the "SAFE" option


    now note this lower (POF-USA 416 lower)


    it only has the markings, it doesn't have the "fun hole" through it, thus it is not a machine gun.

    The lower is fine.

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    I never got to see the item.

    It can "say" it is full auto all day long and that is not illegal.

    To be a NFA weapon and be registered with big brother it will actually need to be able to shoot full auto.

    Catch 22

    If you install full auto parts just short of the sear that finally makes it go full auto you can get in trouble!!!

    You do not need to have the hole drilled in the lower of the AR since you can make drop in sears. Easy in, easy out.

    This is why you cannot have your AR installed with all the necessary parts that will allow it to shoot full auto.

    Parts like this:

    http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/Sto...l.aspx?p=22427

    You can own but you better not install unless you have a registered full auto AR.

  7. #7
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    No.

    I have a lower with Safe/Semi/Auto markings. It not a NFA item, if it were, it would have the hole drilled through it above the "SEMI" position, merely having the "AUTO" selector option does not make it auto nor does it make it registered. A registered lower will have the drilled hole through the top.

    note the whole going through above the "SAFE" option




    it only has the markings, it doesn't have the "fun hole" through it, thus it is not a machine gun.

    The lower is fine.
    did you get to see the picture before it was deleted?

    your saying that if it has the hole then its a "registered" auto?

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    .

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    trx680 wrote:
    did you get to see the picture before it was deleted?

    your saying that if it has the hole then its a "registered" auto?
    i didn't see the ad, it was gone before i responded.

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    Here are some links similar to what I was referring to:

    http://www.keepshooting.com/firearma...r-pack-sef.htm

    and

    http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=472568&pn=1



    But I have to agree with what was said above that just because it has an indicator doesn't make it so. As stated it seems like I remember that NFA rules applied to these but it has been a while since I looked at one.

  11. #11
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    AFAIK in the HK, the only registered NFA part is the sear.

    No sear, no machine gun, no NFA.

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    hsmith wrote:
    AFAIK in the HK, the only registered NFA part is the sear.

    No sear, no machine gun, no NFA.
    There are 3 kinds of legal transferable full-auto ARs (M16s).

    Registered receivers, RDIAS (registered drop-in auto sears) and registered Lightning Links.

    The RDIAS and registered Lightning Links are the Form 4'd part and use a host lower receiver.
    armorer & notary public for VA Arms Co FFL/SOT
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    gotm4 wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    AFAIK in the HK, the only registered NFA part is the sear.

    No sear, no machine gun, no NFA.
    There are 3 kinds of legal transferable full-auto ARs (M16s).

    Registered receivers, RDIAS (registered drop-in auto sears) and registered Lightning Links.

    The RDIAS and registered Lightning Links are the Form 4'd part and use a host lower receiver.
    For M16's I am aware, but in H&K's (MP5's, ect) aren't the sears the only registered part?

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran gotm4's Avatar
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    hsmith wrote:
    For M16's I am aware, but in H&K's (MP5's, ect) aren't the sears the only registered part?
    There are some transferable registered receiver MP5s.

    http://www.talonarms.com/talonarms/i...oducts_id=1206
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    hsmith wrote:
    gotm4 wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    AFAIK in the HK, the only registered NFA part is the sear.

    No sear, no machine gun, no NFA.
    There are 3 kinds of legal transferable full-auto ARs (M16s).

    Registered receivers, RDIAS (registered drop-in auto sears) and registered Lightning Links.

    The RDIAS and registered Lightning Links are the Form 4'd part and use a host lower receiver.
    For M16's I am aware, but in H&K's (MP5's, ect) aren't the sears the only registered part?
    Normally just the sear is registered.

    But you can get a registered trigger pack or a registered gun.

    Difference being... if you have a registered sear and it breaks... you have to fix the sear! It cannot be replaced with a new sear.

    But in the case of a registered trigger pack or gun... you can just get a new sear and replace the one that is broken.

    Disclaimer: Please contact the ATF if you ever find yourself in this situation and need to replace a sear. I may be wrong today and laws can change in the future. This is only my educated take on it from what I have learned over the years.



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    Good info guys, thanks for making things a bit clearer.

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    From 27 CFR 478.11:

    Machine gun. Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machine gun, and any combination of parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

    There are typically6 parts that form the "kit" to convert an AR from semi to fully auto: sear, hammer, selector lever, trigger, disconnector, and bolt carrier.

    It doesn't actually have to shoot full auto it only has to have one of parts listed above from a full auto for it tobeconsidered a machine gun by the ATF.




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