Fiance trouble

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Okay, so, I'm getting married in about 3 months. My fiance is taking some classes at a college that has a reputation for being, lets just say, liberal. In one of these classes she is learning right now about how "men and women are the same, society controls how they develop... movies/shows that depict men shooting and such make men grow up to be violent/feel the need to be "manly" and own guns" (this is onlyone example of all the thingsshe is'learning') I'm trying to make her understand that little boys fight, little girls usually gossip... (in general) from the beginning God intrinsicly made men and women different and the man's role is to be a protector and a leader, but this school is filling her mind with bullshit (excuse the language, but it is appropriate for the situation). I've been bumming because I really honestly don't want her to not respect (and love) the fact that I'm concientious enough to want to protect her and to take the steps to do so, but the way it's turning all of the sudden I just dont even know. We fight about it every day because she'll come home with something new she learned about how all Americans are racist against black people or something and I can't just sit by like a good fiance and say "oh, that's great dear!" I wish I could be excited for her being excited to learn, but I can't keep my mouth shut. I'm scared that A. I wont be able to get her to understand the truth about the agendas that people push and why they are destructive, and B. she'll want to teach our kids someday this sort of thing.

More of a freaking out rant, than anything, but comments are welcome.

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its your life man, but I would strongly reconsider marriage until these things are worked out. sounds like she's easily swayed by "authority" figures, not good the way our country is going right now.
everything gets a lot bigger and harder to deal with when you get married, if you're fighting about it every day, man, I'd really think hard about whether you want to go through with this right now.

just my opinion.

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Marrage fixes NOTHING.

If you're having that many problems now, it will only get worse.

Think before you take that leap.

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dougwg speaks truly. Not like friendship at all. Too complicated to talk about here. You need to seek council prior to getting married or else seek council later. You have to accept the fact that she Chose to learn this stuff, she has invested her time and resorces in this learning and to tell her it is not right will just make her mad. I tell people to take a third party view at a car they are interested in buying, that way they can better see faults that might not appear to them. The same thing can sometimes be used with relationships.

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I'm hoping that it's just this one class... she even said "I'll be done with it this semester so we wont have to fight about it any more"... but I dont know. We agree about most everything until now, or at least she's listened to reason and ended up agreeing with me. Obama & abortion we're right in sync now. I've just read on the forum people talking about how their significant others weren't thrilled about them carrying and such but it works out. I just don't know how seriously to take this new development that literally came out of nowhere. Maybe I just need the right mindset about it... I dont want to throw away everything else just for a few disagreements... no matter how passionately I might feel about them...

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Rather than telling her that SHE is wrong or that she has been taught wrong, attempt to pose questions to her about these subjectsthat cause her to think about what her proffessors are telling her.

Like:

"Honey, I shoot guns. Do you think I am a violent person? My friends are shooters, too. Do you believe they are violent people?"

"Honey, Do you consider me a racist? Do you consider my friends as racists? Have you noticed that it is only white people that are called racists? Why can't people of other races be "racists?"

Work you discussion around so that she figures out for herself that what she is learning at school is BS. If that fails get a new fiance.

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Thats a good idea... I'm just getting so frustrated!!!!!

I think tonight I'm going to tell her that in the next couple months I want her to sit down and talk with someone about these subjects, maybe her father or someone else I know that we both respect, and I'll concede to her that I'll visit her class one day and sit in the back and not say a word...

Maybe she just needs to hear it from someone other than me...(althought it'd be nice if she had that kind of trust in me, but oh well....she's her own person and its good that she can make up her mind for herself...)

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I'm in agreement with dougwg and xd-40 on this. The problems your having are not over simple, little disagreements, but rather over core principals. Your wise to consider the effect it would have on children.

This may sound harsh, but I'd be concerned about the personality type who would be so easily swayed by a professor in a classroom, that they would take such an antagonistic stance with the one they actually swear commitment to. That touches on things like loyalty, respect. and others.

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sictransitgloria wrote:

I'm hoping that it's just this one class... she even said "I'll be done with it this semester so we wont have to fight about it any more"... but I dont know. We agree about most everything until now, or at least she's listened to reason and ended up agreeing with me. Obama & abortion we're right in sync now. I've just read on the forum people talking about how their significant others weren't thrilled about them carrying and such but it works out. I just don't know how seriously to take this new development that literally came out of nowhere. Maybe I just need the right mindset about it... I dont want to throw away everything else just for a few disagreements... no matter how passionately I might feel about them...

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Hmmm... are you angry that she doesn't agree w/ you or do you feel that she actively thwarts anything you do regarding the carrying of firearmsand likewise, does she feel that you thwart her thoughts about guns? I guess that is the real question. Many couples disagree about things... and they go on and it's really not an issue. Perhaps she feels that because she is excited about this "learning" that she is doing you should be too? Perhaps she feels that you aren't happy for her; it's really hard to say. But, as was stated here, if it's a real problem now, marriage won't make it any better. But both of you really need to be able to accept the other person for who they are, not for who either of you wants the other to be. It's all about respect. Otherwise, it won't work. Contempt is the killer of all marriages. If you or she has contempt for the other's views, it is better to leave now.
Good luck.

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I'm pretty sure it all just boils down to her being disapointed and a bit hurt that i'm not excited about the learning that she's been doing. and when i completely contradict it she goes into defensive mode and so do i. either way, i asked her tonight if she trusted that i've got her best interest in mind and would do anything to protect her and i said that includes me owning/carrying guns and she said yes, so i guess we'll see where things go from here. thanks for the input, i'm gonna see how the next week or so go. i just need to decide if i can accept how she's thinking and not let it bother me, or if i'm going to always hope she changes, or if i'm going to feel like i need her to change.

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Although not entirely germane to the forum, I do think this is important for gun owners to consider. I really wasn't saying you should hope to change her, nor was I saying that you needed to change. I used to do quite a bit of counseling and this issue comes up quite often (not regarding firearms specifically, but about drinking, hunting, anything that one of the two does which bothers the other person) Just do what you do... if she is in love with you and carrying a firearm is a part of you, that should be acceptable. Likewise, her beliefs are a part of her. Love requires that you accept that part of her. So, if there is love, there really shouldn't be any problems if each person sees the issue(s) as an intrinsic part of the other person. My guess is that the more you show her that you are going to carry a firearm responsibly, she'll accept it and may even modify her beliefs regarding firearms or any other of the things you mentioned.

Just remember that what is, is. Thinking “My wife (or husband) should agree with me” is just a way of demanding reality be different than it is. If taken to the extreme, isn't not believing in reality just another name for insanity?

Good luck with everything; I wish the two of you well.

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DrTodd wrote:

If taken to the extreme, isn't not believing in reality just another name for insanity?

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Perhaps and after 30 years of marriage I'm insane. You have to be a bit insane to get married in the first place.

What is reality? Every person by their very nature has a unique understanding of reality. All we have to count on is a 3rd party observer to acknowledge our view of it. And who's to say that, that 3rd party observer's view is correct. So whenit come down to it, we are either all sane or we are all insane.

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sictransitgloria wrote:

Okay, so, I'm getting married in about 3 months. My fiance is taking some classes at a college that has a reputation for being, lets just say, liberal. In one of these classes she is learning right now about how "men and women are the same, society controls how they develop... movies/shows that depict men shooting and such make men grow up to be violent/feel the need to be "manly" and own guns" (this is onlyone example of all the thingsshe is'learning') I'm trying to make her understand that little boys fight, little girls usually gossip... (in general) from the beginning God intrinsicly made men and women different and the man's role is to be a protector and a leader, but this school is filling her mind with bull@#$% (excuse the language, but it is appropriate for the situation). I've been bumming because I really honestly don't want her to not respect (and love) the fact that I'm concientious enough to want to protect her and to take the steps to do so, but the way it's turning all of the sudden I just dont even know. We fight about it every day because she'll come home with something new she learned about how all Americans are racist against black people or something and I can't just sit by like a good fiance and say "oh, that's great dear!" I wish I could be excited for her being excited to learn, but I can't keep my mouth shut. I'm scared that A. I wont be able to get her to understand the truth about the agendas that people push and why they are destructive, and B. she'll want to teach our kids someday this sort of thing.

More of a freaking out rant, than anything, but comments are welcome.

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Not trying to be an ahole--but your g/f is an adult yes? She isn't a little girl incapable of understanding that men are naturally physically stronger, whereas it has been shown that women tend to be more psychologically stronger. She is able to understand that in society there are violent people who would not mind hurting her and doing so over a mere few dollars? She understands why you lock your doors at night? She does understand the reason for the Constitution, and the sacrifices which have been borne in its' name by our founding fathers? OR is she merely buying everything she is told in her classes whole cloth without even taking the time to ask questions?

What is the problem? Use facts to rebut the liberal ideas that this college is implanting in her mind....college is supposed to be about free though--but instead I have found that it is more about indoctrination into the current, accepted way of thinking...and those who own firearms are just not "socially accepted"--but who wants to be accepted by a panzy society afraid to defend itself?

Use the facts on her--don't be afraid to stand up and take a stand and debate this with her and show her where she is mistaken...if you are afraid to talk about this--how can you ever hold a conversation with her?

just my .02 cents.

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Venator wrote:

DrTodd wrote:

If taken to the extreme, isn't not believing in reality just another name for insanity?

Click to expand...

Perhaps and after 30 years of marriage I'm insane. You have to be a bit insane to get married in the first place.

What is reality? Every person by their very nature has a unique understanding of reality. All we have to count on is a 3rd party observer to acknowledge our view of it. And who's to say that, that 3rd party observer's view is correct. So whenit come down to it, we are either all sane or we are all insane.

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Marriage = Insanity I like that.

Do you think everyone has a unique view of reality?? Sounds like you are saying that belief = reality. That's not the Venator I know. If someone states that "OC is wrong, immoral, etc.", do you just look to an "authority" to set the record straight? Perhaps you and the professor of Sictransitgloria's fiance are operating from the same playbook. (I hope you were being argumentative... you were, weren't you?)


My point wasn't on a philosophical level, Venator . Rather I was using it in the sense of observing phenomena, such observable phenomena rarely being subject to personal interpretation. For example, if it's raining outside and I believe it is not, I'll still get wet. I don't need to ask anyone if it is raining as I am standing outside getting wet. Another one. Mr Anti says: "I hate guns, I'm going to wish them all away. Wow, look, no more firearm deaths." (Fact: Firearms exist, they will always exist, and banning them does nothing to change the fact that they exist.)

Although people rarely question observable phenomena, they do tend to interpret unobservable aspects regarding the phenomena. Sictransitgloria's fiance observes him discussing what she "learned" in class (Reality). She may interpret that as a subtle way of saying she is ignorant or she could see it as him trying to discover what she truly believes (both are conjecture). But the interpretation is her doing, not his. She states that she doesn't want him to carry a firearm (a reality based on his observation). He interprets this as her not understanding that he wants to protect her (conjecture). This interpretation is his doing, not hers.

I am suggesting that observable behaviors (reality) are not the problem, rather the problem lies in interpretation. Therefore, in any relationship, both parties are better served by dropping the interpretation and instead, dealing with reality.

Getting back to the notion of OC, I think this discussion does have bearing on what all of us do. IMHO, one of the reasons that I OC is to help people understand reality (OK, only a little bit) If a person observes me OCing, they may interpret that as trying to be confrontational or aggressive. But, as they observe that I don't do any of the behaviors typically associated with such an interpretation, hopefully they begin to question the interpretation of my behavior and, if all goes well, change the way in which they view someone casually walking the streets with a pistol on their hip. Has the reality of seeing someone armed walking the street changed? No. Just the interpretation has changed. (If you don't think it's a matter of interpretation: Most people don't have a problem with a LEO walking the street armed, do they?)

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DrTodd wrote:

Do you think everyone has a unique view of reality?? Sounds like you are saying that belief = reality. That's not the Venator I know. If someone states that "OC is wrong, immoral, etc.", do you just look to an "authority" to set the record straight? Perhaps you and the professor of Sictransitgloria's fiance are operating from the same playbook. (I hope you were being argumentative... you were, weren't you?)

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But belief does = reality if I believe it it's real to me. And I did throw it out there as a philosophical point. There is "truth" and there is truth. Even if there is an absolute truth we will all perceive that truth differently. And what is truth one day could change as our understanding of the world changes. Some theoretical physicists are already questioning the laws of physics and how those laws may have changed over the eons.

The sun once evolved around the earth, which was considered the truth (belief), There was even some "science" to prove it, until more data suggested that the earth revolves around the sun. So I guess the real questionis whatare the definitions of reality and truth.

If I have an umbrella I won't get wet in the rain? What color is the sky? Ask that question to a color blind person, if they say it's green are they wrong? Perhaps, but their reality is that it green, no matter how hard we try to prove it's not. BTWthe color of the sky in my world is purple .

All your points are valid. But that is why communicating information is difficult, because each person brings into play their unique prospective, bias, experiences, etc., into interpreting that information.

So I guess it's more about peoples perceptions of reality that are unique, which in the end is almost the same thing.

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Venator wrote:

DrTodd wrote:

If taken to the extreme, isn't not believing in reality just another name for insanity?

Click to expand...

Perhaps and after 30 years of marriage I'm insane. You have to be a bit insane to get married in the first place.

What is reality? Every person by their very nature has a unique understanding of reality. All we have to count on is a 3rd party observer to acknowledge our view of it. And who's to say that, that 3rd party observer's view is correct. So whenit come down to it, we are either all sane or we are all insane.

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YOU HAVE BEEN MARRIED THIRTY YEARS.WOW.You do not look that old at all!!!!

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ruger45 wrote:

Venator wrote:

DrTodd wrote:

If taken to the extreme, isn't not believing in reality just another name for insanity?

Click to expand...

Perhaps and after 30 years of marriage I'm insane. You have to be a bit insane to get married in the first place.

What is reality? Every person by their very nature has a unique understanding of reality. All we have to count on is a 3rd party observer to acknowledge our view of it. And who's to say that, that 3rd party observer's view is correct. So whenit come down to it, we are either all sane or we are all insane.

Click to expand...

YOU HAVE BEEN MARRIED THIRTY YEARS.WOW.You do not look that old at all!!!!

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Thanks. Yep, 30 years Jan. 1979. I can remember it well. I can't remember what I was going to say, but I can remember 30 years ago....that's what age does to you.

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Either way, I'm going to definately have to choose the right moment to start open carrying with her. Maybe bribe her with a fancy date. Hah.

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Venator wrote:

ruger45 wrote:

Venator wrote:

DrTodd wrote:

If taken to the extreme, isn't not believing in reality just another name for insanity?

Click to expand...

Perhaps and after 30 years of marriage I'm insane. You have to be a bit insane to get married in the first place.

What is reality? Every person by their very nature has a unique understanding of reality. All we have to count on is a 3rd party observer to acknowledge our view of it. And who's to say that, that 3rd party observer's view is correct. So whenit come down to it, we are either all sane or we are all insane.

Click to expand...

YOU HAVE BEEN MARRIED THIRTY YEARS.WOW.You do not look that old at all!!!!

Click to expand...

Thanks. Yep, 30 years Jan. 1979. I can remember it well. I can't remember what I was going to say, but I can remember 30 years ago....that's what age does to you.

Click to expand...

You got married 4 years after I was born you age very well..

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I just re-read the OP, and I realized that you stated that ONE of her classes is the one that has taughther that "men and women are the same, society controls how they develop... movies/shows that depict men shooting and such make men grow up to be violent/feel the need to be "manly" and own guns".

At the risk of getting flamed, I'm going to have to agree, to a degree, with what she has been taught. We have been conditioned toexpect certain behaviors from men and women. Just as we have all been conditioned since childhood to expect to grow up, finish HS, maybe go to college, land a good job,find a mate, get married, and raise children. We have been conditioned to believe that there is a negative stigma to veering from this plan. "Old Miads" were made fun of. Remember when you were in high school, anyone that didn't have a gf/bf by the time they were juniors were made fun of, as being not good enough as dating material?

Yes, I have to agree with the notion that "society controls how men and women develop", at least it tries to. But then there are always some of us that are always bucking the system, in defiance.