New AR15 :)

nakedshoplifter wrote:

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Your AR15 is a registered RIFLE. You want to place a shorter upper on it and change the butstock to turn it into a PISTOL but you can't, see the firearm is a RIFLE by serial number, and nothing wil change that. You are actually proposing creating an SBR.

The only way (to my knowledge) to have a LEGAL AR pistol is to buy an AR designated from the factory as a PISTOL.

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Not so. A stripped, bare receiver that's never been anything but a receiver is neither a rifle nor a handgun;a bare receiveris a firearm, but is not a rifle or a handgun until it is built into one.Read the regs. 18USC CH44 921(a)(7) defines a rifle as: a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder. If there's no shoulder stock it's not designed/intended to be fired from the shoulder. Likewise, as a stripped/bare receiver it's not designed/intended tobe held andfired with a single hand (see 18USC CH44 921(a)(29).) Either it fits the definition of a rifle or it does not. That said, once you puta stock on your receiver it becomes a rifle. At that point, if you want to use it as a stockless rifle (a "pistol" for the sake of clarity in this thread) then it needs to registered with the BATF in the NFRTR as a short-barrled rifle (i.e., one that's less than 26" OALand/or bbl length less than 16"...see 18USC CH44 921(a)(8) and 26USC CH53 5845(a) and (c).)

Furthermore, there is no way to "register [it]" as a rifle, or as a pistol. There's no registry/data base of rifles and pistols either in federal of Virginia state law.The only federal registry is the NFRTR (National Firearms Registry and Transfer Record) created under the '34 NFA (26USC CH53)for registration of NFA devices (i.e., Title II firearms) only...no Title I firearms.



HTH

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From what I know.... when a firearm is made and is to be sold to the public it must have a few things. One is a serial number and another is that it has to be identified as either a rifle or pistol. Even if it not dressed out as one.

You CANNOT take an AR lower that has been stripped and turn it into a pistol version if it was registered as a rifle. Even if it was NEVER a rifle.

If you take the AR lower and add a SBR you risk 10 years in prison and $250,000 fine.

Please remember that there are laws in place that regulate the purchase and possession of handguns. You cannot circumvent the system by taking a rifle and turning it into a pistol.

Example: You cannot take your .22 rifle, chop off the stock and cut down the barrel making it into a pistol without filing some paperwork. That AR lower is the same thing.

You need to ask the ATF for permission to do that.

But you can always buy a pistol version AR lower.

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LEO 229 wrote:

From what I know.... when a firearm is made and is to be sold to the public it must have a few things. One is a serial number and another is that it has to be identified as either a rifle or pistol. Even if it not dressed out as one.

You CANNOT take an AR lower that has been stripped and turn it into a pistol version if it was registered as a rifle. Even if it was NEVER a rifle.

If you take the AR lower and add a SBR you risk 10 years in prison and $250,000 fine.

Please remember that there are laws in place that regulate the purchase and possession of handguns. You cannot circumvent the system by taking a rifle and turning it into a pistol.

Example: You cannot take your .22 rifle, chop off the stock and cut down the barrel making it into a pistol without filing some paperwork. That AR lower is the same thing.

You need to ask the ATF for permission to do that.

But you can always buy a pistol version AR lower.

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Actually the new 4473 has a special category for receivers by themselves:


Someone from the AR15 forums wrote the ATF and asked what the specifics were and they said that you can turn a lower receiver into a pistol but it has to have been from a new receiver that had never been a rifle before. Also once it was made into a pistol you could then freely convert it into a rifle. If you want to go the the SBR route building a pistol is nice because you have a fun toy while waiting for your tax stamp.

Since lowers can be made into pistols they are also illegal to be sold to those under 21.

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Yes it is quite common for individual people to order stripped lower receivers from the manufacturer.

Actually the lower receiver itself IS the firearm. That's why although I must get the stripped lower receiver sent to a local FFL I can have all the other parts shipped to my address. In the governments eyes they have it on record as a stripped lower receiver unless you decide to turn it into a SBR or AOW.

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When I bought a stripped AR lower the FFL asked me if I was going to build a rifle or a pistol. I had todeclare one or the other.It made a difference inhow it was registered and going forward the lower was either a rifle or pistol, not both.

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LEO, tell me where, how, and with whom a rifle is registered as a rifle? The answer is "it isn't." It is not a rifle until it is built into a rifle. A receiver is a receiver is a receiver. A factory-fresh, never-built-into-anything receiver does not fit the legal definition of a rifle, period. I posted the citations but I'll also say that if teh law itself doesn't convince you, go look at a Form 4473...an over-the-counter firearms transaction record...the form you fill out when you buy a gun from an FFL. There three categories: "Handgun", "Long Gun", and "Other Firearm (frame, receiver, etc.)." (See section 18, http://www.atf.gov/press/2008press/100308f4473_pt1_aug2008-sample-rev.pdf

It is perfectly legal to buy a stripped, virgin, never-assembled-into-anything receiver and build it into a handgun or even an AOW.

That said, a completed rifle that was returned to a stripped receiver is still lawfully considered a rifle. Likewise, one cannot take a rifle, chop it into a handugn and have a handgun. In that instance it's a short-barrelled rifle.

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FYI, check out this link

http://stephenhalbrook.com/tc.html

In particular,

On June 8, 1992, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Contender pistol and carbine kit are not a short-barreled rifle under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. §5845(a)(3). This means that a consumer may possess the pistol with its 10" barrel and may use the kit parts to make a rifle with the 21" barrel, as long as the shoulder stock is not assembled onto the receiver at the same time as the 10" barrel.

So it would appear that you can in fact flip flop betweena pistol and rifle/carbine on the same receiver as long as you meet the requirements.


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kaiheitai17 wrote:

FYI, check out this link

http://stephenhalbrook.com/tc.html

In particular,

On June 8, 1992, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Contender pistol and carbine kit are not a short-barreled rifle under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. §5845(a)(3). This means that a consumer may possess the pistol with its 10" barrel and may use the kit parts to make a rifle with the 21" barrel, as long as the shoulder stock is not assembled onto the receiver at the same time as the 10" barrel.

So it would appear that you can in fact flip flop betweena pistol and rifle/carbine on the same receiver as long as you meet the requirements.


Edit to clean up format

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IANAL:

You can have as long of a barrel you want on the receiver, but you can't put a stock on it. Stock makes it a rifle AFAIK - if you had a "rifle" lower, you could have a 21'' barrel on it and avertical grip - if yuo took that lower and put it on a "pistol" lower, you would have to take the vertical grip off first, or you would create a AOW.

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I started mine over a year ago as I had fears that what's happening would happen. I didn't notice which upper you had selected, but I suggest a mid-length gas sytem if you're going to go with a 16" barrrel.

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I started mine over a year ago as I had fears that what's happening would happen. I didn't notice which upper you had selected, but I suggest a mid-length gas sytem if you're going to go with a 16" barrrel.

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