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Thread: Shipping a handgun

  1. #1
    Regular Member Bill45's Avatar
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    I just sent a revolver back to the manufacturer for repair and it cost $64.35 incl. insurance.

    How come I can order a gun from a GUNS AMERICA.COM FFL dealer to my dealer here and the shipping is only $20 but I pay $64??? Did UPS just rip me a new one??



    Bill

  2. #2
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    UPS is terrible on guns. I use USPS.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Bill45's Avatar
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    I thought the only company that can legaly ship a handgun is UPS. I have received C&R firearms by USPS and they just leave them on my porch if I am not at home !!



    Bill

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    There are very specific regs for shipping USPS. You can get them on their site.
    I'll try from memory, but be forewarned: These are not final by any means!
    1. You must ship overnight.
    2. you must declare the firearm.
    3. "I think" you need to have signature required.
    Check the USPS website to get all the facts.
    The price difference is significant.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Bill45's Avatar
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    Hammer wrote:
    There are very specific regs for shipping USPS. You can get them on their site.
    I'll try from memory, but be forewarned: These are not final by any means!
    1. You must ship overnight.
    2. you must declare the firearm.
    3. "I think" you need to have signature required.
    Check the USPS website to get all the facts.
    The price difference is significant.
    Yes those are the requirements that UPS has.

    Some how I have got the mistaken idea that Federal law stated that handguns can not be legaly shipped by USPS and that is why I have recieved guns in the mail in unmarked packages.

    I will check the USPS web site.

    Thanks

    Bill

  6. #6
    Regular Member Bill45's Avatar
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    I found this on the USPS site.


    F.
    Firearms of any type are prohibited in all classes of mail. See


    definitions of firearms in DMM C024.1.1C. This restriction does not apply to


    firearms mailed to or by official U.S. government agencies. The restriction


    for mail to this APO/FPO ZIP Code does not apply to firearms mailed from


    this APO/FPO ZIP Code, provided ATF and USPS regulations are met.


    Antique firearms are a separate category defined in DMM C024.2.0 and ATF


    regulations; they do not require an ATF form.


    F1.
    Privately owned weapons addressed to an individual are prohibited


    in any class of mail.



    I also I found that FED-Ex does not accept firarms. Only UPS is the legal manner for a private individual to ship a firearm.

    Bill


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    I realize I neglected to say that it has always been thru an FFL. Is there an exemption for FFL dealers?
    Or else I'm livin' in the past somehow....

  8. #8
    Regular Member Bill45's Avatar
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    Yes there is an exemption for FFL dealers.A FFL dealer can mail USPS to another dealer or manufacturer. So the C&R guns I have received via the USPS are legal as I and the shipper have a class 3 FFL.

    But if you are not a dealer and need to ship a gun for repair it must go through UPS or not at all.

    So UPS has a monopoly and can charge what they please. I imagine the day will come when they willchoose not to accept guns from individuals also.

  9. #9
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    Bill45 wrote:
    Yes there is an exemption for FFL dealers.A FFL dealer can mail USPS to another dealer or manufacturer. So the C&R guns I have received via the USPS are legal as I and the shipper have a class 3 FFL.

    But if you are not a dealer and need to ship a gun for repair it must go through UPS or not at all.

    So UPS has a monopoly and can charge what they please. I imagine the day will come when they willchoose not to accept guns from individuals also.
    Or you need to go through an FFL.

  10. #10
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    Yes there is an exemption for FFL dealers.A FFL dealer can mail USPS to another dealer or manufacturer. So the C&R guns I have received via the USPS are legal as I and the shipper have a class 3 FFL.
    Not really. You are not a dealer, you are a collector. The USPS regs are pretty plain about that. For a pistol to go USPS it has to go FFL (dealer)to FFL(dealer). The general concensus is that the 03 C&Rlicense does not meet that requirement.

    Also, look closely at the 1508 form the Post Office requires for each mailing...It requires BOTH addressees to be "bona fide dealers therein". If you are dealing, you are outside the realm of your Class 03 C&R license.

    Legally you need to be sending pistols UPS or FedEx (common carrier). Unless it is pre 1898 antique, then you can use the USPS.

    Long guns can be shipped USPS by anyone. If you have the FFL of the dealer you are sending it yo, you can legally ship via USPS. It is up to the receiving dealer if he will accept from a non FFL though. You can also ship a long gun via USPS to a C&R holder.

    For pistol shipping I will normally go to FedEx and use their next day saver rate. It saves a few bucks over UPS.

    bob


  11. #11
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    This really should be made into its own sticky thread for as many times as it gets asked.....

    ATF:
    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm
    (B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

    Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.



    Contract Carriers:

    Firearms
    FedEx Express can only accept and deliver firearms between areas served in the U.S. under the following conditions: You agree to tender shipments of firearms to us only when either the shipper or recipient is a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer or licensed collector and is not prohibited from making such shipments by federal, state or local regulations. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable state law.
    Firearms must be shipped FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. or with a signature release. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx is required to notify the FedEx employee who accepts the package that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.
    You also agree not to ship firearms loaded or with ammunition in the same package. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms can provide assistance.
    http://www.fedex.com/us/services/ter.../firearms.html


    Customers must observe the following procedures to ship firearms, including handguns, via UPS:
    UPS accepts firearm shipments from UPS daily pickup accounts and through UPS Customer Counters. UPS daily pickup accounts can also ship firearms, not including handguns, through UPS Internet Shipping, On Call Air Pickup®, and One-Time Pickup. Firearms are not accepted for shipment via UPS Letter Centers, UPS SonicAir BestFlightSM service, or international service. Firearms will not be accepted when presented for shipment at a UPS Authorized Shipping Outlet or a UPS Commercial Counter.
    UPS accepts handgun shipments from UPS daily pickup accounts and through UPS Customer Counters. Handguns are not accepted for shipment via UPS Letter Centers, UPS SonicAir BestFlight service, UPS Internet Shipping, UPS On Call Air Pickup, UPS One-Time Pickup, or international service. Handguns will not be accepted when presented for shipment at a UPS Authorized Shipping Outlet or a UPS Commercial Counter.
    Firearm shippers shipping through a UPS Customer Counter must have a letter on record with UPS stating their status as an authorized firearm shipper.
    The shipper must affix a UPS label, requesting an adult signature upon delivery, to each package containing a firearm.
    Packages containing handguns must be shipped via UPS Next Day Air Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, or UPS Next Day Air Saver® service.
    Packages containing handguns must be segregated from other packages being tendered to UPS. Handgun shippers must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Counter clerk of any package containing a handgun.
    UPS prohibits the inclusion of ammunition in packages containing firearms, including handguns.
    In locations where a UPS Next Day Air service is not offered, packages containing handguns must be shipped via the most premium domestic air service available.
    http://www.ups.com/using/services/details/firearms.html




    43 Firearms
    431 Definitions
    431.1 Firearm
    A firearm is defined as any device (including a starter gun) that is designed, or may readily be converted, to expel a projectile by an explosion, a spring, or other mechanical action, or by air or gas pressure with sufficient force to be used as a weapon.
    431.2 Handgun
    Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (for example, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles) are defined as handguns. The following definitions apply:
    a. Pistol or Revolver. A pistol or revolver is a handgun designed to be fired by the use of a single hand.
    b. Short-Barreled Rifle. A rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches long is defined as a short-barreled rifle. This includes any weapon made from a rifle (by alteration or modification) resulting in an overall length of less than 26 inches.
    c. Short-Barreled Shotgun. A shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches long is defined as a short-barreled shotgun. This includes any weapon made from a shotgun (by alteration or modification) resulting in an overall length of less than 26 inches.
    431.3 Antique Firearm
    An antique firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) is any firearm manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica of such a firearm, that meets either of the following conditions:
    a. It is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.
    b. It uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, which is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available through ordinary commercial trade channels.
    431.4 Rifles and Shotguns
    A rifle is a shoulder weapon having a barrel that is 16 inches or more in length. A shotgun has a barrel of 18 inches or more in length. Rifles and shotguns have an overall length of 26 inches or greater and cannot be capable of being concealed on a person.
    431.5 Licensed Manufacturer/Licensed Dealer
    A manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer in firearms is one duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), U.S. Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968.
    432 Mailability
    432.1 General
    The following conditions apply:
    a. Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable in the domestic mail except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0.
    b. The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0 or C024.2.0.
    c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.2.0.
    d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 431.2b and c.
    432.2 PS Form 1508
    PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, must be completed by each firearm manufacturer or dealer who deposits firearms for mailing. The form must be filed with the postmaster of the post office of mailing.
    Exhibit 432.1
    Mailability Requirements for Firearms
    Handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer or dealer, an authorized federal agent, or an authorized state, territory, or district agent ONLY when addressed to one of the following addressee categories for use in official duties:
    Addressee Affidavit Requirements
    a. Officer of Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, or organized reserve corps.
    b. Officer of National Guard or militia of a state, district, or territory.
    Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by commanding officer.
    c. Officer of the federal government or a state, district, or territory whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
    d. USPS employees specifically authorized by the chief postal inspector.
    e. Officer or employee of a U.S. enforcement agency.
    Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by head of agency employing the addressee.
    f. Watchman engaged in guarding federal, state, district, or territory property.
    Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by chief clerk of department, bureau, or branch of government agency employing the addressee.
    g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of an agency employing officers and personnel included in c, d, or e above.
    Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by the head of agency stating the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee cited in c, d, or e of the opposite column.
    Unloaded Handgun
    Mailer must be licensed manufacturer or dealer mailing to another licensed manufacturer or dealer. Addressee is FBI (or it's director) or scientific lab or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers, or state, district, or territory officers authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment. Manufacturers or dealers must complete PS form 1508, Statement by Shipper of firearms, and file with postmaster.
    Postmasters may forward an unsatisfactory mailer statement to their RCSC for a ruling.
    Unloaded Rifle or Shotgun
    Short-barrelled rifles or shotguns that can be concealed on a person are nonmailable.
    Mailer must comply with Gun Control Act of 1968 and with the state and local laws. USPS may require mailer to open parcel or give written certification that weapon is unloaded and not concealable. Registered mail service is recommended.
    Unloaded Antique Firearm
    Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are acceptable for mailing.
    432.3 Packaging and Marking
    No markings of any kind that indicate the nature of the contents may be placed on the outside wrapper or container of any mailpiece containing firearms. Mailable matter must be properly and securely packaged within the general packaging requirements in DMM C010.
    433 Mailer Responsibility
    Even though certain types of firearms are permitted to be mailed within the provisions of the postal law in 18 U.S.C. 1715, it is the mailer's responsibility to comply with all federal and state regulations and local ordinances affecting the movement of firearms.
    434 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
    Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Mailers should be referred to the nearest regional ATF office for further advice. See 435 and Exhibit 435.
    435 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF)

  12. #12
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    This really should be made into its own sticky thread for as many times as it gets asked.....




    On every gun board there is.

    I can't begin to count the times I have seen misinformation posted when it comes to shipping guns.



    bob





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