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Thread: Patriot or Traitor

  1. #1
    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Personally I think he is a Patriot...

    http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/firearms43



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    He is a patriot.

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    He is a patriot and brother in arms.

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Patriot.

    Especially since he A) promotes utilizing and exhausting your peaceful avenues of patriotism and change before resorting to violent revolt and B) he makes his case using quotations from our Constitution and from many respected persons from our country's history... on both sides of the political spectrum.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    Patriot.

    It's interesting this was posted this week. A few days ago I was talking with a friend of mine who was in the Marine Corps about the cordon and search exercise that was reportedly supposed to happen in Ohio, etc. My main question was, what is the likelihood that US troops would choose not follow a direct order believing it was in direct conflict with the Constitution?

    Police officers are not required to know and understand the law in the same way that a lawyer has to know the breadth of the law. Even lawyers don't know everything, meaning if they specialize in trust or environmental law they don't know the intricacies of tax or securities law. Can we really expect US soldiers to believe enough in their own judgment about what is legal and not legal to disobey orders? Especially when the legality of orders might be clouded by laws enacted specifically to make an activity legal, but the law authorizing it's legality is illegal?

    If everyone (or at least the vast majority) in the military and law enforcement shared the same feelings as the soldier in the video then I am less concerned.

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    Wow!

    It occurred to me the other day that ifthis nationsucceeded in restoringfreedom, limited government, and the constitution, whether peacefully or otherwise, it wouldmake history. I don'tthink its happened before.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  7. #7
    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    It needs to happen.We have an admin that is outside their minds.I.E It is not my obligation to pay for someone elses health care especially illegals. You are not entitled to anything you don't work for .People don't have a right to coverage simply because they exist.These insane baleouts will cost our grandchildren big time.....It doesn't work.We should all have the same opportunities but we are not resonsible for someone elses bad outcome and bad decisions.

    My charitable contributions are decided by me not what the gov.says is acceptable.

    People are entitled to housing as long as they pay for it themselves.It is not up to me to bale someone out of a bad motgage no matter who's fault it is.

    I keep the money I earn.This tax the rich policy punishes people for success.It is these folks that hire others.Have you ever recieved a paycheck form a welfare recipient.??

    I also have the right to raise my kids as I see fit ,teach them what I think is right.A couple of my children have never seen the inside of a public school and they are better off for it.

    Cut back on these welfare programs to save money.Welfare should be paid based on someones earning potential or what they have already contributed.

    It isnot of the governmants business what and how many guns I own.And to perpetuate these socialist policies they will have to disarm us.

    We have to get back to the basics of the Constitution which built this country in the first place.Along with the hard work of individuals.We never started as a welfare state.

    AsI said prior to the election I felt my money and gunrights eveporating.That is exactly what is happening.


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    Former USN here. That man is a Patriot.

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    AMEN!! Patriot all the way.

    I was just talking to my wife about this the other day. I told her that we shouldn't be too worried about soldiers fighting citizens.

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    I have had private conversations with a couple of local LEOS that say they will not try to disarm the citizens like they did in New Orleans.Even if marshall law is declared which I think is coming.Using the current state of affairs as an excuse and therefore trying to disarm us.

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    WOW!! I still have goosebumps. Patriot.
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "A government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -- Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181)

    A 1911 that works properly is as rare as a Glock that doesn't.

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    Regular Member Shy_Panda's Avatar
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    O.o

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    He gives me hope.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Patriot.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I think we're going to be unanimous here.

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    Neither patriot nor traitor, just another voice who posts quasi-anonymously on the internet. One who believes some stuff that sounds good (exhausting all possible means within the system to achieve goals before trying to destroy and restart), and other stuff that is absolute BS (shots causing autism).
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Neither patriot nor traitor, just another voice who posts quasi-anonymously on the internet.
    +1

    Like the "last of the mohicans" soundtrack though. Nice touch.


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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    He might be anonymous and everything said (immunity shot has been disproved to cause autism) might not be totally factual. But the things he has said points to a patriot someone who loves his country and is willing to fight the powers to be as a last resort, and I agree with the sentiment. I believe its one reason many of us open carry because we are fighting for our rights.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Even if you take out the claim regarding booster shots, there's MORE than enough cold hard facts available to replace it. I too swore an oath to uphold the Constitution and to defend it from all enemies, foreign and domestic. The federal government is making it increasingly difficult for me to envision a peaceful return to liberty. It is hardwired into the nature of human beings that those who achieve power do not easily relinquish it. And it's no secret that power corrupts.

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    arms_libertas wrote:
    Patriot.

    It's interesting this was posted this week. A few days ago I was talking with a friend of mine who was in the Marine Corps about the cordon and search exercise that was reportedly supposed to happen in Ohio, etc. My main question was, what is the likelihood that US troops would choose not follow a direct order believing it was in direct conflict with the Constitution?

    Police officers are not required to know and understand the law in the same way that a lawyer has to know the breadth of the law. Even lawyers don't know everything, meaning if they specialize in trust or environmental law they don't know the intricacies of tax or securities law. Can we really expect US soldiers to believe enough in their own judgment about what is legal and not legal to disobey orders? Especially when the legality of orders might be clouded by laws enacted specifically to make an activity legal, but the law authorizing it's legality is illegal?

    If everyone (or at least the vast majority) in the military and law enforcement shared the same feelings as the soldier in the video then I am less concerned.
    I think a majority of the Marine Corps will side with the constitution. Did you know that about 2/3's of the USMC joined the south in the civil war? Having been an active duty Marine I can tell you they will side with the constitution.Not to offend anyone, but its the majorities in the Army, Navy and AirForce thatyou have to worry about.Of course if you look through history a majority of leaders had to offer up land to raise their armies. Very few joined for only the cause or the charisma of the leader. What you need is a "Chesty Puller" to lead a revolt. Charismatic, and people would follow him to their deaths if necessary.

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    arms_libertas wrote:
    Patriot.

    It's interesting this was posted this week. A few days ago I was talking with a friend of mine who was in the Marine Corps about the cordon and search exercise that was reportedly supposed to happen in Ohio, etc. My main question was, what is the likelihood that US troops would choose not follow a direct order believing it was in direct conflict with the Constitution?

    Police officers are not required to know and understand the law in the same way that a lawyer has to know the breadth of the law. Even lawyers don't know everything, meaning if they specialize in trust or environmental law they don't know the intricacies of tax or securities law. Can we really expect US soldiers to believe enough in their own judgment about what is legal and not legal to disobey orders? Especially when the legality of orders might be clouded by laws enacted specifically to make an activity legal, but the law authorizing it's legality is illegal?

    If everyone (or at least the vast majority) in the military and law enforcement shared the same feelings as the soldier in the video then I am less concerned.
    Its interesting, being a retired military man, i strongly believe there are many young kids who don’t understand the constitution and will just obey orders, I think you will find a small handful that do understand and will not obey. My belief is therewould be about 25%, who would not follow orders; the rest would just do it to save their jobs.

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    It's obvious that they wouldn't be given orders to subjugate their fellow citizens - the people they're detaining aren't citizens, they're domestic terrorists, dangerous enemy combatants threatening our precious constitution with their cult-like mis-interpretations. They'll see us as the enemy because their superiors will portray us as the enemy, and we won't have a chance to say otherwise when they're dragging us out of our homes and shooting those of us who resist.

    Never forget the power of authority to change a person's perspective.

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    Regular Member Shy_Panda's Avatar
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    ChuckUFarley wrote
    Its interesting, being a retired military man, i strongly believe there are many young kids who don’t understand the constitution and will just obey orders, I think you will find a small handful that do understand and will not obey. My belief is therewould be about 25%, who would not follow orders; the rest would just do it to save their jobs.
    While there are undoubtedly those in the military who do not understand the Constitution and its true meaning, but the NCO's and enough of the officers are fully versed in its meaning and they are the ones who have the ear of joe.

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    Nitrox314 wrote:
    SNIP What you need is a "Chesty Puller" to lead a revolt. Charismatic, and people would follow him to their deaths if necessary.
    In his biography we read that he was once asked the state or readiness of his battalion or regiment. His reply was something like, "Fine. Never better. Could march to Peking, burn it, and get back in 10 days."

    How is that for attitude?

    (Chesty didn't care for communists. He became a friend of Chiang Kai Shek. He once told Chiang that if Chianginvaded back onto the mainland, he just needed to pick a place where folks were sympathetic. And not let any communist encountered live.)
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    It's obvious that they wouldn't be given orders to subjugate their fellow citizens - the people they're detaining aren't citizens, they're domestic terrorists, dangerous enemy combatants threatening our precious constitution with their cult-like mis-interpretations. They'll see us as the enemy because their superiors will portray us as the enemy, and we won't have a chance to say otherwise when they're dragging us out of our homes and shooting those of us who resist.
    Have we forgotten Ruby Ridge or Waco? Did anyone refuse orders there?

    As far as the soldiers revolting, or being well versed in the Constitution, it's a tossup. A lot of guys go in so they can go somewhere with their life, learn a trade, or something like that. Nationalism has little to do with it; it's a means to an ends. But then again, there are a lot who do go in for patriotic reasons.


    After listening again, I don't think I like how he calls anyone how does nothing as a traitor.

    And I've heard the whole democracy vs. republic thing from a number of sources, going back to the old JBS, but I've never really got what the actual, practical difference would be? Expand the electoral college?

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