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Patriot or Traitor

ChuckUFarley

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256
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Renton, Washington, USA
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arms_libertas wrote:
Patriot.

It's interesting this was posted this week. A few days ago I was talking with a friend of mine who was in the Marine Corps about the cordon and search exercise that was reportedly supposed to happen in Ohio, etc. My main question was, what is the likelihood that US troops would choose not follow a direct order believing it was in direct conflict with the Constitution?

Police officers are not required to know and understand the law in the same way that a lawyer has to know the breadth of the law. Even lawyers don't know everything, meaning if they specialize in trust or environmental law they don't know the intricacies of tax or securities law. Can we really expect US soldiers to believe enough in their own judgment about what is legal and not legal to disobey orders? Especially when the legality of orders might be clouded by laws enacted specifically to make an activity legal, but the law authorizing it's legality is illegal?

If everyone (or at least the vast majority) in the military and law enforcement shared the same feelings as the soldier in the video then I am less concerned.

Its interesting, being a retired military man, i strongly believe there are many young kids who don’t understand the constitution and will just obey orders, I think you will find a small handful that do understand and will not obey. My belief is therewould be about 25%, who would not follow orders; the rest would just do it to save their jobs.
 

antispam540

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It's obvious that they wouldn't be given orders to subjugate their fellow citizens - the people they're detaining aren't citizens, they're domestic terrorists, dangerous enemy combatants threatening our precious constitution with their cult-like mis-interpretations. They'll see us as the enemy because their superiors will portray us as the enemy, and we won't have a chance to say otherwise when they're dragging us out of our homes and shooting those of us who resist.

Never forget the power of authority to change a person's perspective.
 

Shy_Panda

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Spokane / Pullman, Washington, USA
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ChuckUFarley wrote

Its interesting, being a retired military man, i strongly believe there are many young kids who don’t understand the constitution and will just obey orders, I think you will find a small handful that do understand and will not obey. My belief is therewould be about 25%, who would not follow orders; the rest would just do it to save their jobs.
While there are undoubtedly those in the military who do not understand the Constitution and its true meaning, but the NCO's and enough of the officers are fully versed in its meaning and they are the ones who have the ear of joe.
 

Citizen

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Fairfax Co., VA
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Nitrox314 wrote:
SNIP What you need is a "Chesty Puller" to lead a revolt. Charismatic, and people would follow him to their deaths if necessary.
In his biography we read that he was once asked the state or readiness of his battalion or regiment. His reply was something like, "Fine. Never better. Could march to Peking, burn it, and get back in 10 days."

How is that for attitude?

(Chesty didn't care for communists. He became a friend of Chiang Kai Shek. He once told Chiang that if Chianginvaded back onto the mainland, he just needed to pick a place where folks were sympathetic. And not let any communist encountered live.)
 

cynicist

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It's obvious that they wouldn't be given orders to subjugate their fellow citizens - the people they're detaining aren't citizens, they're domestic terrorists, dangerous enemy combatants threatening our precious constitution with their cult-like mis-interpretations. They'll see us as the enemy because their superiors will portray us as the enemy, and we won't have a chance to say otherwise when they're dragging us out of our homes and shooting those of us who resist.

Have we forgotten Ruby Ridge or Waco? Did anyone refuse orders there?

As far as the soldiers revolting, or being well versed in the Constitution, it's a tossup. A lot of guys go in so they can go somewhere with their life, learn a trade, or something like that. Nationalism has little to do with it; it's a means to an ends. But then again, there are a lot who do go in for patriotic reasons.


After listening again, I don't think I like how he calls anyone how does nothing as a traitor.

And I've heard the whole democracy vs. republic thing from a number of sources, going back to the old JBS, but I've never really got what the actual, practical difference would be? Expand the electoral college?
 

Gene Beasley

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Patriot – with some reservations. At the risk of pulling this way OT, here goes.

If you click the You Tube video again, it opens up in You Tube where you can read the accompanying description. Any time I see Alex Jones and Loose Change, I get a little leery. We are a diverse group here and I know that some subscribe to alternate 9/11 theories. It’s not my intention to disparage those members, but it raises red flags for me.
 

Enoch Root

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Here's the upshot.... "if those who administer the general government be permitted to transgress the limits fixed by that compact, by a total disregard to the special delegations of power therein contained, annihilation of the state governments, and the erection upon their ruins, of a general consolidated government, will be the inevitable consequence...the principle...that the general government is the exclusive judge of the extent of the powers delegated to it [is] nothing short of despotism...since the discretion of those who administer the government, and not the constitution, would be the measure of their powers...[T]he several States who formed that instrument, being sovereign and independent, have the unquestionable right to judge of its infraction... nullification by those sovereignties, of all unauthorized acts done under colour of that instrument, is the rightful remedy..."



http://www.mikechurch.com/joomla/the-america-again-resolves/3053-the-america-again-resolves-and-back-story.html

THURSDAY, JANUARY 17, 2008

America Again!

A Declaration

Whereas We the People of these 50 States of America were the creators of the Constitution for the united States of America; and
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Whereas the three branches of federal government are creatures — things created by us in the U.S. Constitution; and
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Whereas the national Constitution is the highest and most basic Law of the Land throughout this Republic so uniquely blessed by God among all nations; and
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Whereas it is the sworn duty of all members of the U.S. Congress, and of every U.S. administration, and of the U.S. federal judiciary, to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution for the united States of America; and
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Whereas in that Constitution, We the People clearly enumerated and limited the powers of the federal government and retained any powers not specifically enumerated therein, to ourselves and our sovereign States, and any exercise of power by federal government beyond those listed powers is a violation of the highest law in America, which law has been repeatedly violated by politicians and presidents for 148 years in America, through many wars and attacks on the People of America and of other lands, such violence being the economic engine of wicked men throughout history; and
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Whereas President Jefferson said that “in questions of powers...let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution”; and
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Whereas such “binding down” can only be peaceably effected by binding the federal purse- for its present $3 trillion annual revenues have spawned a brood of corruptions, as unlimited sums of money have always done. This ocean of D.C. cash has birthed limitless unconstitutional federal powers, departments, agencies, agents, programs, projects, offices, and regulations that now threaten America’s future, our liberties and property, the U.S. Constitution itself, and the peoples of many foreign lands; and
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Whereas Mr. Jefferson also said, with respect to this precise lawlessness that We the People are suffering on every hand from federal usurpation today, that
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"if those who administer the general government be permitted to transgress the limits fixed by that compact, by a total disregard to the special delegations of power therein contained, annihilation of the state governments, and the erection upon their ruins, of a general consolidated government, will be the inevitable consequence...the principle...that the general government is the exclusive judge of the extent of the powers delegated to it [is] nothing short of despotism...since the discretion of those who administer the government, and not the constitution, would be the measure of their powers...[T]he several States who formed that instrument, being sovereign and independent, have the unquestionable right to judge of its infraction... nullification by those sovereignties, of all unauthorized acts done under colour of that instrument, is the rightful remedy..."

and
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Whereas such nullification as referred to by President Jefferson must be effected not by political pressure alone (which has proven useless against the march of federal corruption and usurpation for 150 years) but by new legislation rescinding all such violations of the U.S. Constitution; and
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Whereas We the People have learned over generations that such legislation will never make it through the halls of the corrupted Congress without our courts of the several States adding a very real threat of incarceration and loss of assets for any such corrupt violators of these many laws; and
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Whereas there exists no principle in Western law, and no principle of public law or equity generally, prohibiting or preempting We the People and our sovereign States -- the creator parties of the judicial courts of the federal government -- from claiming jurisdiction in such cases of infamous, perennial usurpation and tyranny by our members of Congress and by the federal courts that have for too long protected such crimes and usurpations from any repair or reformation by the aggrieved People or States; and
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Whereas the present socialist changes dumped rashly on the American people by the feckless, complicit U.S. Congress and having to do with the corrupt banking and credit industries and the stock market casino cannot restore equity or health to the American economy; and
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Whereas the underlying fraud and insider dealing in the banking, credit, insurance, and mortgage industries were facilitated and defended by a series of corrupt Congresses both by passing the current illicit, unconstitutional laws and by most members of these corrupt Congresses failing to represent their constituents in these 50 States of America, instead colluding with, defending, and in many cases positively shilling for individual players and companies within those corrupt industries; and
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Whereas even more egregious crimes than said collusion and fraud has been, and is being, perpetrated by members of the U.S. Congress specifically in violation of the monetary clauses found in the U.S. Constitution -- which violations must be immediately halted and specifically outlawed; and
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Whereas the illegal manufacture of our currency by a private corporation, to which we are forced to pay the face value, plus interest! when no private entity can lawfully manufacture United States currency under the U.S. Constitution; and
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Whereas following the money as any investigator must do in seeking out a criminal, We the People hearken to the voices of countless former presidents, congressmen, and statesmen and realize that this illegal, immoral Money Power has ravaged our economy and our families for generations, causing untold hardship for all citizens, while making untold riches for a few in the corrupt financial industry as well as the corrupt politicians, bureaucrats, and lobbyists whom they own; and
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Whereas the U.S. Congress was granted by us the sole responsibility to pass laws on federal tax assessment, collection, and enforcement, but the Internal Revenue Service has repeatedly violated those laws with the full knowledge, consent, and collusion of the U.S. Congress; and
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Whereas the federal government, in all three branches, is coercing the productive citizens ('Taxpayers'
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of these united States of America to live as slaves and virtual pack-mules, to carry the burdens and pay for the crimes of the government and the elite in these corrupt industries; and
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Whereas the U.S. Congress, administration, and federal courts are now colluding with the Internal Revenue Service, in order to keep the trillions flowing each year, essentially operating a state-sponsored terrorist organization as that term was defined by President George W. Bush in Executive Order 13224, “Terrorism: an activity that… involves a violent act or an act dangerous to human life...or...property… and...appears to be intended...to intimidate or coerce a civilian population…”; and
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Whereas this state-sponsored terrorism has continued for decades with consent and collaboration of a succession of corrupt Congresses and administrations even after every member of Congress and successive administrations have been hand-delivered extensive packages of evidence that the IRS has been violating the law while calling its actions ‘Code enforcement’ — a shameless breach of public trust as witnessed in corrupt banana republics; and
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Whereas these things are corroborated by former IRS fraud examiner Sherry Jackson, former IRS attorney Paul Chappell, former IRS –CID enforcement agent Joe Banister, and former agents Clifton Beale and John Turner — all of whom are now spokesmen against current Congressional and IRS fraud and in favor of Tax Honesty; and
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Whereas these former IRS employees agree with the estimated 67 million American non-filers including law-abiding Non-taxpayers who assert that IRS has been unable to show any section of law making the average person living and working in the 50 States liable for keeping records, filing IRS forms, or paying federal income tax; and
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Whereas Historian of the IRS Shelley L. Davis testified before the U.S. Senate in September 1997 suggesting that the IRS daily violates laws, and operates as though it is above the law; and
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Whereas Tax Honesty can restrict federal revenue sources to lawful sources — import duties, federal excise taxes, import tariffs, taxes on corporate profits and other taxable activities listed in the Tax Code, taking more than a trillion dollars per year out of the federal hog-trough which has spawned countless burdens on the citizens' lives and greatly reducing today's $7.4 billion per day torrent of cash, the corrupting equivalent of 10,800 major drug cartels; and
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Whereas such Tax Honesty would transform the average American household's personal economics, helping millions of Americans to keep their homes and pay their bills rather than feed crooks in Congress who have long worked for lobbyists in the banking and credit industries; and
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Whereas such Tax Honesty would de-fund countless illegal arrogations, powers, departments, and offices and greatly diminish the heavy hand of D.C. corruption on the average American family; and
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Whereas We the People of these 50 sovereign States will never allow Congress to burden us or our future generations with an equally-corrupt “revenue neutral” alternative plan to milk the productive segment of the Republic — such as a national sales tax or a flat tax plan; instead we demand that elected representatives show new respect for the Constitution by allowing reduced revenues to limit Washington D.C. to its enumerated powers — and thus limit the potential for corruption; and
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Whereas President George Washington said that “Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. . . The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference; they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. . .A free people ought to be armed”;

and
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Whereas the only form of "homeland security" authorized -- indeed demanded -- in the Constitution is the organized Militias of the Several States, in local muster and assembly as laid out in detail by constitutional scholar Edwin Vieira, Jr in his book, "Constitutional Homeland Security Volume I"; and
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Whereas We the People are now taking it upon ourselves to exercise lawful, peaceful, constitutional, organized self-government exactly in line with the Constitution by merely enforcing our Constitution for these United States, for the first time in two centuries;
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Therefore, after our long-term failure to discharge our citizen duties (bearing the cost of our abdication on every hand), We the People of these fifty sovereign and very united States, demand that those we sent to serve us in the U.S. House of Representatives and in the U.S. Senate:
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1) Pass legislation repealing the patently unconstitutional Presidential War Powers Act, which violates the delegation of war powers in Art. I, Sec. 8 of the Constitution and has allowed American presidents to act as unchecked military tyrants around the world while allowing Congress to abdicate its deliberative role before sending America’s military to kill and maim people of other lands (many of whom have been innocent non-combatants) although they caused no demonstrable threat to We the People or our States but only to commercial interests; and
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2) Pass legislation that:
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A) Acknowledges the 4th Amendment privacy in the American people’s own persons, houses, papers, communications, and effects from any and all government surveillance, seizure, or detainment unless preceded by issuance of a specific, bona fide warrant issued on probable cause;
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Announces Congress’s intention to refuse to fund (or continue to fund) any Executive Order or armed federal action, such as Department of Homeland Security, that violates the executive powers in the Constitution and threatens liberty by creating a coercive federal police-state;
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C) Makes illegal any organization, department, or federal action to endanger or blur America’s sovereign status among the nations of the world;
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D) Rescinds all portions of the USA Patriot Acts that violate the liberty and privacy of an American until a warrant is issued upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized;
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E) Makes clear that any future federal effort that violates the 4th and/or 6th Amendments is null and void;
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F) Makes illegal any electronic or biometric tracking of any law-abiding citizen of these 50 States, or any federal government program of biometric or electronic tracking of domestic animals within any of the 50 States; and

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3) Pass legislation currently in draft form including all of the substantive provisions found in the Monetary Reform Act prepared by Stephen Zarlenga and the American Monetary Institute, which legislation publicly acknowledges that manufacture of American currency by the Federal Reserve bank cartel violates Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution; publicly acknowledges that We the People granted power to coin currency only to Congress; repeals the unconstitutional Federal Reserve Act and makes illegal any new issue of Federal Reserve currency; restores confidence in and governmental control over America’s currency and credit; stabilizes the money supply and price level; establishes full reserve banking and prohibits fractional reserve banking; retires the national debt and repeals conflicting Acts regarding U.S. money and banking; withdraws the United States banking system from international banks, and restores federal government accountability for monetary policy, removing the causes of economic depressions without any additional taxation, inflation or deflation; and

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4) Pass legislation directing IRS to immediately cease the fraudulent application of the Tax Code and immediately release all federal prisoners being held on “failure to file” or similarly unsubstantiated charges; and

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5) Pass legislation making illegal any federal taking or federal use restriction of private land, and/or of water, minerals, or other God-given resources in, on, or under said private land in any of the 50 States; and

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6) Pass legislation making illegal any new federal burden, restriction, registration, regulation, tracking, or other impediment on ownership and use of firearms and other military-grade weaponry by law-abiding Americans for self-defense or defense of family and property against any attacker, thief, or enemy force that should present any unlawful threat to life or liberty — whether said enemy be civilian or military, foreign or domestic — as was the manifest intent of the 2nd Amendment; and
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7) Repeal the 17th Amendment, restoring the original design for this constitutional foedus of Sovereign States with our sovereign legislatures, which representative bodies, in electing their two representatives in the U.S. Senate, enhance the political leverage of the States over a federal plebiscite that has been abused repeatedly since the passage of that amendment; and
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8) De-fund and dismantle the U.S. Department of Education and any other federal program, power, regulation, or inhibition of the education of our own children. The federal power has neither the authorization nor the ethical right to involve itself in how we raise our children, nor to instruct our Sovereign States in such matters because our State government also has no business in training children in America.

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After almost 150 years of increasing federal abuse and arrogation of power, We the People and our 50 States have thought ourselves powerless. The federal power has amassed its limitless ocean of cash coerced by threat of force from our honest labor, and certainly by no voluntary scheme of taxation at all -- plunging us into a worse condition of servitude than that which We the People endured under George III and the British Parliament.
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Now, with a gargantuan military subculture and a military-industrial complex (about which President Eisenhower warned us) at its sides, this federal power is our Frankensteins monster, a veritable D.C. al-Qaeda that holds us -- the People and our sovereign States -- as terror-stricken hostages with no say in life or death or multi-trillion-dollar racking of the economy. Rather than its constitutional creators, We the People and Sovereign States of America, have acted as miserable creatures bereft of hope.
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But no more. We the People of these States of America do here declare our resolve to enforce the foundational Law of the Land by which we gave birth to the national government, and under which we retained all powers not enumerated to the federal power.

We declare our resolve to bind the purse-strings of that government as required, yet shall not bar any fellow American from volunteering his wages to Congress' IRS scheme if desired.
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We hereby notify each and every one of our 535 elected federal representatives that his/her attendance is demanded (but not expected) on the 4th of July next, at 4 o’clock in the afternoon, for an Independence Day celebration sponsored by local student and adult members of the Citizens’ Homeland Security Associations, pursuant to organizing our respective areas’ State Militias once more, as the Constitution guarantees.
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These annual festivities and public observances shall begin with a public reading of this Declaration as annually amended by the People; a Congressional report card, if you will, on our representative. This reading shall take place at the Main Public Library (or as otherwise announced in the local media) in the city or town being the seat of the particular member of Congress’ district. That reading shall be followed by patriotic and festive fireworks display and refreshments at the city park or other announced location.
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The member’s record since taking office shall speak for itself. Yet We the People do agree to offer the member immunity under one condition alone: that (s)he will in writing, with witnesses, repent his/her record of support for and/or acquiescence in, the countless egregious violations of the Law of the Land and will sponsor or co-sponsor such legislation as is herein mentioned, without material amendment and only as reviewed and approved by his/her Citizens' Homeland Security Association and local constituency after allowing the People sufficient time for said review.
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Given the present state of affairs, and the numerous powerful, nefarious players and lobbyists controlling the actions and legislation of Congress, We the People demand a restoration of our rightful prerogatives of self-government. Armed in our own homes and backed by the courts of our Sovereign States, each U.S. senator and congressman will now be held fully to account for fraud, conspiracy, racketeering, and a long list of abuses spanning generations.
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Decades of deepening corruption teach us that there are only two ways that We the People can now trust a politician: if (s)he openly, in writing, joins the People’s resolve to preserve, protect, and defend the U.S. Constitution as (s)he is sworn to do; or if (s)he is serving a sufficient number of years in a State Penitentiary after having been stripped of the emoluments of crime in high office.
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We the People of America don't care what the Europeans do; we have distinct histories and governments from theirs. Neither do we cringe at the people of China or Russia; and even the dreaded Islamic menace, so called, does not frighten us. Most Americans trust God's decrees for our future. What we do NOT trust is politicians and bureaucrats, and the corporate cabal who have owned them since Lincoln's time.
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Most of us Americans are not military mothers, cheering for "our warriors" across the world in other people's living rooms. Most of our sons and daughters are simply ignorant of American history, having attended government schools. The average American sees no crying need to police or develop the rest of the world. We hold out a hand to our friends among every people on earth who seek liberty and truth. At this hour, America's most mortal enemies are domestic, as our founders warned us would be the case. Our own politicians and police are now not to be trusted. We the People are determined to set things right, so help us God.
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Should our member of Congress refuse to agree, in writing, to cease violating the law; should (s)he prevaricate, obfuscate, or bloviate as politicians so often do, rather than give clear, concise answers — or should (s)he return to his/her seat of power to conspire anew with like-minded scoundrels (or with oligarchs and corporate powers who own his first allegiance) to defend the criminal status quo, We the People do hereby express our solemn resolve to gain his/her criminal indictment and conviction for fraud, racketeering, and conspiracy — not under the federal laws that Congress employed against the relatively miniscule corruption of Enron or Worldcomm executives, but under the criminal laws of his or her State, with multi-count, multi-trillion-dollar indictments handed down by his/her local State Grand Jury.
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Should any of our State district attorneys or judge(s) fail to see the gravity of these crimes and/or refuse by complicity or fecklessness to oversee justice under the U.S. Constitution, We the People hereby resolve to seat replacements who WILL respect the Rule of Law; who will recognize the rights and the DUTIES of these Fifty Sovereign States of this American republic, to enforce the terms of the U.S. Constitution against corrupt federal actors, without further delay.
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We the People do resolve that in such cases, we shall seek the longest possible State Prison terms and financial penalties; for multi-trillion-dollar fraud as with any other international crime of that magnitude, we will seek seizure of all wealth and properties held under the politician's name, or held in trust under any structure whatsoever, in any jurisdiction in the world whatsoever, inuring to the benefit of the member or his/her family or descendants.
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This citizens’ effort, called America Again! has been conceived not by politicians or special interests, but by everyday People of these 50 States, to illustrate how blessed we are to have our federal Constitution, warts and all.
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We hope to prove to a watching world that even while national and international forces of greed and corruption seek to sunder our constitutional republic, that a diligent minority of citizens can help to restore liberty and lawful self-government. Arming ourselves with faith in God, we will enforce the Law of the Land laid down by our fathers. We will back up our efforts with a town-by-town display of citizen resolve, keeping and maintaining military-grade weaponry in our homes as intended by the founders, and proving that under our Constitution, the normal citizens, rather than jack-booted police or paramilitary troops, are America's lawful design for social order.
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By their response to this citizen enforcement action of the U.S. Constitution that they have so long violated, members of the Congress of our States shall now demonstrate to the world their repentant statesmanship and fidelity, or their ignominious corruption.
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We citizens of these 50 sovereign States of America do consecrate this first annual effort to restore American self-government on this Independence Day, 2009. May God bless this formerly godly Republic, that we may live to be America Again!

_____

http://www.patriotscorner.com/forums/

The strength and power of despotism consists wholly in the fear of resistance.
Thomas Paine
 

DEROS72

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
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Valhalla
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I will go along with most all of that.However and maybe I have misunderstood ,it seems to make America look like the bad guys.I was in war in a foriegn land and we did our best to protect the folks from atrocities.Our medic provideded medical care for people that have never seen a doctor etc.Anyway I also think we should get back to the follwing. (Glenn Beck)

The Nine Principles

1. America is good.

2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.

3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.

4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.

5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.

6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.

7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.

8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.

9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.



As a side note it can only happen in America I saw an article on fox about a guy starting a schooland counseling service to teach white collar criminals how to survive in prison..........
 

Wheelgunner

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Kingston, Washington, USA
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Patriot and intelligent. Uses a slightly distorted picture with his ears covered to prevent ID through computer ident scan.

Many of these men will be caught and tried before this is over.
 

Misguided Child

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
, Washington, USA
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OT here, if either of the posters who said the link between mercury in childhood immunizations and Autism has been disproven could PM me cites I'd sure appreciate it.

Alan
 

Nitrox314

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Joined
Nov 23, 2007
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Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
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Misguided Child wrote:
OT here, if either of the posters who said the link between mercury in childhood immunizations and Autism has been disproven could PM me cites I'd sure appreciate it.

Alan
It doesn't even matter though. This was probably made before it was stated to be disproved. But what is true is that the government wants all girls to be innoculated for HPV. It has not passed to my knowledge, but girls as young as 9 may be required to get the vaccine to goto school soon.
 

SouthernBoy

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Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
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I've seen this before and it gives me chills and hope.


Traitor? Not on your life.

Patriot? I only wish (hope) we had tens upon tens of million just like this.


Our one advantage is that our sleeping employees in Washington (congress and the executive branch) will underestimate a waking American spirit which is filling with resolve. No program, no group, no entitlement, no one is more important than freedom.

I lament when I think of what has been done to the grandest design in the history of man. I fear the future of a once great nation. I am fast loosing hope we will ever see what once was.

I put a little sign in my module at work this past week. It says,

Don't "Europe" America
 

Citizen

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Heartless_Conservative wrote:
Have we forgotten Ruby Ridge or Waco? Did anyone refuse orders there?
That was domestic 'law' enforcement, not sworn military personnel.

I thought it was proven there was military assistance at Waco?

Am I misremembering something?
 

MetalChris

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ChuckUFarley wrote:
Its interesting, being a retired military man, i strongly believe there are many young kids who don’t understand the constitution and will just obey orders, I think you will find a small handful that do understand and will not obey. My belief is therewould be about 25%, who would not follow orders; the rest would just do it to save their jobs.
^^ This.

That is what will happen, I guarantee it. When it comes down to it, I don't think the vast majority of the junior enlisted force would even care if the order was blatantly illegal...they'd just do as they were told.
 

VAopencarry

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To me, neither.
He's a you tube commando.

I have doubts the photo was of the person making the video. If it is, the guy will be court martialed before long. If you knew this person, that little mask would not make him unrecognizable.

I spent 7 years in the USMC and who knows how many thousands of Marines I spoke to, I never heard anyone pronounce Semper Fidelis like he did. Call me a skeptic.
 
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