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Thread: Summary of TSRA deliberations on open carry from annual meeting

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    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    "with the potential to save more lives: being able to store your firearm at work"


    Riiiight, cause a gun in a car in a parking lot sure can save your life! How can open carry not save lives?


    For one it could save you the many thousands of dollars of going to court for using your gun in self defense by avoiding the entire situation all together!

    BG: "This guy looks like a good victim"
    BG: *Sees gun* :what:

    BG: "I'll just rob the next person that comes along, I mean, I don't want to get SHOT!"

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    "...the consensus was that concealed carry is the best option, because criminals won’t know who’s armed."

    I certainly respect that opinion, but opinions or discussion about best options miss the point.

    The focus should be on freedom, on rights! All should have the right to carry openly, carry concealed, or not carry at all!

    Give me all options, and I'll choose the best for myself!



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    AMEN! DrMark

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    A right that is unexercised, or has been allowed to become a government granted and controlled privilege is a right that has been lost. Afraid of scaring soccer moms?? What's the matter with these guys? Sorry to be blunt, but somebody needs to grow a spine.



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    Does that mean that soccer moms are scared by the police, deputies, constables, and DPS officers who frequently attend soccer events, who O.C.???

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    Mike,

    OC is a winner in court...should be done in all the states that don't allow it. Plenty of work for you afteryour J.D. Degree.....Halbrook wrote a great article that was posted on here. I think you should raise money for a court action, not asking the legislature to change the law. Lets start with the constitution, supreme law of the land and see what all those article 6 fellows have to say about it. Of course, some of them don't really feel bound by it, do they?

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    Here is my take on open carry. A criminal would not have aproblem with commiting a crime in a room with someone who is carrying concealed, because he doesn't know that person is armed. He would certainly think twice about commiting a crime in a room with some one who was obviously armed. The concept is prevention.

    So, we find ourselves fighting not to gain a new right, but to restore that which was taken. Do we try to pass a new law to circumvent the first, that took our right away, or do we take legal action to overturn that unconstitutional law ????

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    It would be nice to see a study done in which someone visited a variety of jails and prison's. Asked convicted felons who used a weapon to commit there crimeswhat there reaction would be to seeingsomeone OCing at a place they intended to commit the crime. Or which would deter them most an OC'r or CC'r.

    A study of this kind could make a huge difference when fighting for our rights.
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    Sue the state AND open carry rifles (don't want to see rifles? then legalize the Right to carry a handgun openly uninfringed by permits)

    even California has open carry (abridged):

    Photo by Tami Veldura: San Diego 2-28-09




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    DrMark wrote:
    "...the consensus was that concealed carry is the best option, because criminals won’t know who’s armed."

    I certainly respect that opinion, but opinions or discussion about best options miss the point.

    The focus should be on freedom, on rights! All should have the right to carry openly, carry concealed, or not carry at all!

    Give me all options, and I'll choose the best for myself!
    And if I choose wrong, well that's pretty self-regulating, isn't it?

    Don't need a law for that.

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    cato wrote:
    Sue the state AND open carry rifles (don't want to see rifles? then legalize the Right to carry a handgun openly uninfringed by permits)

    even California has open carry (abridged):

    Photo by Tami Veldura: San Diego 2-28-09


    Now HERE'S an image that'll gain us a lot of support from the non-gun owners of America!!

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    HariCarry wrote:
    cato wrote:
    Sue the state AND open carry rifles (don't want to see rifles? then legalize the Right to carry a handgun openly uninfringed by permits)

    even California has open carry (abridged):

    Photo by Tami Veldura: San Diego 2-28-09


    Now HERE'S an image that'll gain us a lot of support from the non-gun owners of America!!
    Well built man in a kilt with an open carried sidearm... what the problem is?

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    Anyone care to comment on this?

    http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCH...92&t=23344

    "OpenCarry.org Lying about TSRA, Again..."

    I'd comment there, but I can't. After a couple of years of being an active and productive member of that forum, I quit going there several months ago in response to the TSRA being the "gatekeeper of gun legislation". And sometime after that, I was banned for reasons unknown (I only found out last week).

    I don't believe for a minute that the TSRA leadership hasn't discussed open carry. I can believe they haven't officially discussed it, as Mr. Cotton says, but he's a lawyer and picks his words carefully. But despite disclaimers about how he doesn't speak for TSRA, given his role in the organization, whenever he speaks about proposed legislation, that is the position of TSRA leadership.

    His degree of venom and hostility toward Mike, John, and OCDO in general is quite amazing.


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    KBCraig wrote:
    His degree of venom and hostility toward Mike, John, and OCDO in general is quite amazing.
    And expected because the NRA is involved. OC breaks their rice-bowl.

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    pakuntexun wrote:
    AMEN! DrMark
    I'll second your amen.

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    KBCraig wrote:
    Anyone care to comment on this?

    http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCH...92&t=23344

    "OpenCarry.org Lying about TSRA, Again..."
    not really. It is what it is. TSRA seems to think that the state of TX does things a particular way. They have adapted to that 'way' and it's the only way that works. Our methods have been called 'scorched earth politics' because we have threatened the seats of supposedly pro gun legislators who do not work for us.

    We all know how politics in legislation works. Nobody said anything publicly, but it didn't need to be. While TSRA has the membership numbers over OC, they get to 'rule the roost' so to speak. If we want to compete or take over, we need to raise our membership numbers.

    that is all.

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    Wy carry at airports?
    http://www.congoo.com/news/2009March...-biker-rampage


    Bet the TSRA sweeps this evidence under the rug.
    CC doesn't work if the BG knows how bad the state makes it to get one.
    Kalifornia is the only place where OC would not be a deterrent, and
    that is also the states fault. Although 3 or 4 OC'ing in different corners would
    work.
    Now if they make the rule that you can CC regardless of state law, posted signs,
    and add in travel to and from airports also covered. We could look at it as a good
    start.


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    I spent my formative years in Texas and I consider myself a Texan at heart and always will. The TSRA can be as negative as they want towards us and anyone else not following "their way," but don't expect everyone to jump on board with their agenda when they aren't representing most people.

    "Still others on OpenCarry.org are talking about filing suit against Texas to establish open-carry as a constitutional right. (This argument is apparently based upon the erroneous belief that the Heller case established a right to open carry. It did not.)"

    Maybe he should read the decision again. I've read it front to back and it did indeed setup open carry as a Constitutional right. The Justice's wording specifically stated an individual had the right to keep and (carry) a firearm, but that concealed carry was not included as a protected right. How much more blatant can you be in a statement?

    Page 2
    "Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited.
    It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any
    manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed
    weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment
    or state analogues."

    I'm not happy about concealed carry not being included as a protected right, but that doesn't change that the statement was blatant.

    There were many pages dedicated to breaking down the meaning of "keep and bear arms," so I'm not going to try to quote those sections.

    Heller upheld that the Second Amendment protected an individual's right to keep AND bear arms. The decision specifically stated concealed carry was subject to prohibitions, which leaves openly carried as specifically protected.

    Maybe the gentleman from TSRA is not a lawyer or hadn't actually read the decision fully.

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    DHCruiser wrote:
    Maybe the gentleman from TSRA is not a lawyer or hadn't actually read the decision fully.
    Actually, he is a lawyer.

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    I went and read the posting and the comments and I'm confused.

    So one must ask why anyone would intentionally make a false allegation that "TSRA leaders do not support open carry."
    Then he goes on to say that the leadership has not taken, or even discussed taking, a stand to support open carry. Therefore they "do not support" open carry.
    So why is the "false allegation" false?

    He goes on at great length to state that neither the TSRA nor he himself support open carry.
    So why is the allegation false.

    Do I have to be a lawyer to understand this convoluted thought process?

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    DKSuddeth wrote:
    KBCraig wrote:
    We all know how politics in legislation works. Nobody said anything publicly, but it didn't need to be. While TSRA has the membership numbers over OC, they get to 'rule the roost' so to speak. If we want to compete or take over, we need to raise our membership numbers.

    that is all.
    You're quite correct in your assessment. You will also need to get people to work in campaigns and be quick to take credit for wins as well as defeats in members districts. When you don't actually have the numbers then act like itand prety soon perception becomes reality. Take credit for wins and defeats whenever and wherever possible. Play their game.

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    NativeTexan wrote:
    DKSuddeth wrote:
    KBCraig wrote:
    We all know how politics in legislation works. Nobody said anything publicly, but it didn't need to be. While TSRA has the membership numbers over OC, they get to 'rule the roost' so to speak. If we want to compete or take over, we need to raise our membership numbers.

    that is all.
    You're quite correct in your assessment. You will also need to get people to work in campaigns and be quick to take credit for wins as well as defeats in members districts. When you don't actually have the numbers then act like itand prety soon perception becomes reality. Take credit for wins and defeats whenever and wherever possible. Play their game.
    Just to make it clear, those are DKSuddeth's words being quoted, not mine.

    I don't disagree with him, but I didn't write that.


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    I would appreciate it if anyone has info on the "Houston (area) . . . urban combat tactics training" mentioned in this article. A phone number or web address would be greatly appreciated.

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    I've been away for awhile (from the forums & politics of CCvsOC), got my CHL class done, been CCing in the real world after 3 years overseas with no guns what-so-ever. Seeing this article with a completely fresh mind, this isn't entirely true:

    While some thought open carry would deter crime, the consensus was that concealed carry is the best option, because criminals won’t know who’s armed.

    This is the more likely reason:
    Another expressed concern that the “soccer moms” would be upset by seeing holstered handguns,
    Folks (pro-gun folks) prefer that the issue of guns anything to be out of sight and out of mind so that it attracts no scrutiny what-so-ever. I've been the recipient of suggestions to "not even bring it up" in order to prevent any attention.


    I find that conflicting :?


    Of course I'm speaking to the choir here, I know that. Just throwing in my .02 while I cook some lunch

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