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Thread: It was my first time......haha

  1. #1
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    Hi all, been a lurker here for awhile, just joined today.

    I'm blown away at how much nicer people are when you have a firearm on your hip, haha.

    I OC'd last night for the first time! I have a simple retention type holster, Ill have to get back to you on the name, I carried my Ruger P97 .45 ACP. I dress very professionally for my job, normally a suit without a jacket, so I imagine most people would think I was some kind of LE......Though I obviously wouldn't put myself out there as one.

    I was a bit nervous, so I started out going to small places that I needed to hit, I went to Quiznos to grab a sandwich, nothing but smiles there, didn't notice anyone stareing.

    Then I headed into JambaJuice to grab a Pomegranite Paradise (yum), no comments there, no obvious stares.

    From there I went next door to GameStop, got a definitive "WHOA!" from a street thug, that was walking in ahead of me, then he said, "here you go sir", as he held the door for me, haha.

    Headed into Old Navy for a belt and pants, immediately got (abnormally)latched onto by one of the female employees there, she was definately hitting on me. I don't get it often, so it had to be the gun, haha.

    Then I got a liitle braver and headed into Wal-Mart, noticeable stares from shoppers, smiles from staff, got the "oh S**T" from the guy in line in front of me, he said, "wow, you didn't scare me, just what you see and hear on TV about guns, it caught me off gaurd". I said, "well, at least you can see mine", he said, "yeah, it is a bit comforting to know if anything went down, you are here". Made me feel good about what I was doing.

    Then headed into Target for some throw pillows, I don't think anyone even saw it on me in there, haha.

    In all, great experience, I have a family that supports it, so I will continue to do it.

    Tonight, I have to go to the mall, so we shall see.......



    Thanks to this community for the support, resources, and comraderie, I know I'll be a long time member!



    "CARRY ON"

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard. Thanks for relaying your carry story.

    The results you have experienced are typical.

    You may want to update your location in case there more people from your area who would be interested to know that open carry ispracticed where they live too.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  3. #3
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    Copy that, edited.

  4. #4
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Grats! Many of us are glad you had a fun and 'uneventful' outing.

    It only gets easier, assuming you don't have negative interaction with LEOs.

    Do you carry the "California Open Carry" pamphlets and laws with you? Do you have your voice recorder?

    What part of California are you in? Could you please update your location info... If you don't want to put your city, put your county.

    Again, grats.:celebrate
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  5. #5
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    The pamphlets and laws are on the homescreen of my iphone, I also use it as a voice recorder.



    I'm located in Hanford, CA, 30 miles south of Fresno, I work up in Fresno daily, so if anyone in the area would like to meet up for lunch, let me know.



    I know a couple of LEO's here in town very well, I'm sure if I had any problems locally, I could call on them to get a rookie to back off if need be.

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    Thanks for sharing your story!

    I'm eager to hear (read...) how your outing at the mall went!
    Walther P99 AS 9mm
    ... loaded with Speer Gold Dot 124 gr

  7. #7
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    ntnwwnet wrote:
    Thanks for sharing your story!

    I'm eager to hear (read...) how your outing at the mall went!

    Maybe we'll find out after the 48 hrs. thing runs out and he's 849ed Someone want to check with Hanford PD?



    Oh, and congrats on tasting freedom West of the Sierras!!! Its addictive!

    photo by oleg volk:


  8. #8
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    Haha, thanks for the concern guys, everything went great.



    Took a friend with me, hit starbucks, no issues, got called "sir" a lot, haha.



    Then went to the Mall, no encounters with mall cops or LEO's, went into just about every store in there, obvious stares, but no problems at all.



    I actually didn't even see a security gaurd, so maybe next time I will make an effort to find one and make sure I pass him on my strong side. Heh.



    I will be carrying all day today, except for work, so I will let you guys know how things go!!



    It is so liberating having this type of freedom!

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    OK, so, first problem arose today.



    Went back to the mall for a gift for my girlfriend, mall security stopped me and asked me for a badge.



    HIM:Excuse me sir, can I see your badge?

    ME:I don't have one.

    HIM: I need to see a badge.

    :ME:I don't have one.

    HIM: You're carrying a gun on your hip, and you don't have a badge?!

    ME: I am open carrying per california law

    HIM: I need your ID.

    ME: I'm not required to give you any ID.

    HIM: You need to leave the mall!

    ME:OK

    He followed me out to my car all the while on the phone with the city PD, giving them my description, and my cars info. I stopped to tell him that if the police were coming, I would rather wait to talk to them, he barked at me again to leave, so I complied. Once in the car, I took off my gun, and puy it in it's case, and put it in my trunk.

    I then drove home, called PD to tell them where I was so they weren't looking for me, the dispatch asked if I had a license to carry, I said no.



    They said they would have an officer contact me.....so here I am waiting.



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    if they meet you at your residence i suggest you step outside closing and locking the door behind you, call it 'habbit'. also have your tape recorder on. do not allow them inside your house, there is no reason for them to enter.

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    Mykal wrote:
    if they meet you at your residence i suggest you step outside closing and locking the door behind you, call it 'habbit'. also have your tape recorder on. do not allow them inside your house, there is no reason for them to enter.
    Yeah, be careful with that. Once you let them in, anything they see in "plain sight" is fair game to be used against you.
    Walther P99 AS 9mm
    ... loaded with Speer Gold Dot 124 gr

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    OK, first things first, the arrived, one officer tucked around the corner (LEO1) an acquantence, one at the door(LEO2).

    LEO2:Hi, can you please step outside?

    ME: Sure

    LEO2: I'm just going to pat you down for my safety, is that ok?

    ME: Sure

    LEO1:Chris what the hell were you thinking

    ME: What do you mean?

    LEO1: You can't be out there like the wild west walking through a mall, it makes people nervous.

    ME: OK

    LEO2:read me the penal code

    ME:Yes, that all pertains to a loaded firearm.

    LEO2: Can we see the gun?

    ME: Sure, it's locked in my trunk

    They check it out, tell me it's nice, I say thanks.

    LEO1: Don't do this crap again, you're just going to get us called away from important things for no reason.



    Then they left.



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    Armed-CA wrote:
    [police encounter at home]
    You'll be filing a formal complaint for that final statement from LEO1, yes?

    Things turned out fine, and that's good. It could also have gone not so good during the police encounterat your house.

    There is 4th Amendment case law regarding what circumstances the police need before they can "pat you down" "for their safety". According to my understanding, none were present, except your consent. Meaning, you could have refused consent tothe search of your person and any involuntary pat down would have been illegal.

    Perhaps someone knowledgeable about CA law can chime in about police examining a gun in a car trunk to see if it is unloaded, etc.

    Good places to start learning about your rights are two videos, about 45 minutes each.Add these and the court opinion linked at the bottom in your favorites folder.

    Busted by FlexYourRights.org: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

    Talking to Police by Prof. James Duane: http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/


    Here is a landmark US Supreme Ct. opinion about police patting you down to check for weapons. Terry vs Ohio. The link takes you to the syllabus (summary). At the top of the page is a link to the opinion itself:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/htm...2_0001_ZO.html
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  14. #14
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    Armed-CA wrote:
    LEO1: Don't do this crap again, you're just going to get us called away from important things for no reason.
    The police need to traintheir dispatchers to ask questions of the 911 caller to see if anything illegal is occurring. Its not your job to forego your rights because the police can'taccomplish simple administrative chores.

    Basically this LEO is directing you to stop exercising your right to keep and bear arms (RKBA).
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  15. #15
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Armed-CA wrote:
    LEO1: Don't do this crap again, you're just going to get us called away from important things for no reason.
    LEO1 cannot prohibit your lawful behavior. He has no business telling a citizen what a person may or may not dobeyond the law he is sworn to uphold. I might have asked him if I could expect to see him tommorrow and every day after that- But that is the lippy C3 rearing his ugly head.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

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    ConditionThree wrote:
    SNIP I might have asked him if I could expect to see him tommorrow and every day after that-
    What was James Garner's reply to the bad guy's verbal threat in SupportYour Local Sheriff ?

    Wasn't it, "I'm looking forward to meeting yourwholefamily."


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  17. #17
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Please file a formal complaint. You did nothing illegal but you were patted down for weapons when there was extremely little reason for such a search. You were told not to perform a lawful act and you were asked to open a locked container to reveal your private property.

    Definitely watch those videos to gain some insight on your rights in these encounters. If you're unwilling to file a formal complaint due to the fact that you are an acquaintance with LEO1, at least talk to him and tell him that open carrying is a lawful activity and you see no reason why a citizen should behave as if a lawful activity wasn't so.

  18. #18
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    bigtoe416 wrote:
    SNIP Please file a formal complaint. You did nothing illegal but you were patted down for weapons when there was extremely little reason for such a search.
    Can't fuss too much about this one. The OCer consented to the patdown.

    Have to hit the thoughtless/automatic/ridiculous to make the request angle or something.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  19. #19
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    Yeah, I'm a little wary of filing a complaint against him as I know him pretty well, and have two other local cops, out of a force of 54, that I know even better.



    Todays encounter sucks because it truly does kind of make me not want to carry here in town anymore. I just don't want them to look poorly upon me, it just sucks that they aren't better educated.

    Any way we can get a c"Continuing Education" group together that would be willing to schedule CE classes in cities and counties that people have issues in? I mean, we could invite all local law enforcement, security agencies, even D.A.'s and judges.



    Although todays episode ended well, I am kindof upset about the freaking mall cops reaction. Then the guy told the cops it was loaded, he never asked, I never told.



  20. #20
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    Armed-CA wrote:
    Yeah, I'm a little wary of filing a complaint against him as I know him pretty well, and have two other local cops, out of a force of 54, that I know even better.
    Thereason for a formal complaint is to force them to recognize people's rights, at least officially anyway.

    If you know them, perhaps you have an even better avenue to effect change by just talking to them.

    I'd try just talking to them, a few friendly e-mails, a little education, etc. Especially the part about the dispatcher finding out whether something actually illegal is going on. "Where is the gun?" "Is he handling it?" "Waving it around?" "Is he making any threats?" Etc.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  21. #21
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    Armed-CA wrote:
    Although todays episode ended well, I am kindof upset about the freaking mall cops reaction. Then the guy told the cops it was loaded, he never asked, I never told.

    Sounds like he made a false report. I would call his supervisor and explain that this creates both criminal liability for the guard, and civil liability for the guard and the employer. Ask the supervisor how (s)he intends to deal with the situation.

    Also, next time don't call the PD to cooperate. It's none of their business if you're carrying a gun. If they happen to catch up with you, comply under protest.

    And why would you care about people that treat you with such disrespect? If one of my LE friends talked to me like that I'd tell him where he can stick his badge.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    Armed-CA wrote:
    Although todays episode ended well, I am kindof upset about the freaking mall cops reaction. Then the guy told the cops it was loaded, he never asked, I never told.

    Sounds like he made a false report. I would call his supervisor and explain that this creates both criminal liability for the guard, and civil liability for the guard and the employer. Ask the supervisor how (s)he intends to deal with the situation.

    Also, next time don't call the PD to cooperate. It's none of their business if you're carrying a gun. If they happen to catch up with you, comply under protest.

    And why would you care about people that treat you with such disrespect? If one of my LE friends talked to me like that I'd tell him where he can stick his badge.
    i agree. if he made a false report it could cost him his guard card, and damage the reputation of the employer. see if you can request a copy of the report from the company. they always write it in a log book. if they deny ask if you can prove it was you by verifying the license plate number of your vehicle to match the report.

    SO's are to report only the facts. not opinion. observe and report.

  23. #23
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    Armed-CA wrote:
    Yeah, I'm a little wary of filing a complaint against him as I know him pretty well, and have two other local cops, out of a force of 54, that I know even better.



    Todays encounter sucks because it truly does kind of make me not want to carry here in town anymore. I just don't want them to look poorly upon me, it just sucks that they aren't better educated.

    Any way we can get a c"Continuing Education" group together that would be willing to schedule CE classes in cities and counties that people have issues in? I mean, we could invite all local law enforcement, security agencies, even D.A.'s and judges.



    Although todays episode ended well, I am kindof upset about the freaking mall cops reaction. Then the guy told the cops it was loaded, he never asked, I never told.

    Don't matter if he is your best friend, FILE A COMPLAINT!

    If police subjugate your rights then your only option is to pursue legal action against them.

    Do it for OCing men and women everywhere.

  24. #24
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    Not too much to complain about as he called the PD and said here I am if you want to talk. He consented to everything else. The statement of "don't do it again" might be some kind of policy violation (that angle won't go anywhere)but it is still just the officers opinion.


    I'm not a big fan of UOCing at malls (just yet) personally as they have active security (rent-a-ninjas)that will over react as this activity is still generally misunderstood due to high profile national media mall shootings.


    Mom and pop stores, restaurants, supermarkets, open strip-malls etc... seam to be non-issue locations generally and help us "normalize" carry in the publics and LEO's eyes with less controversy and fewer potential trespassing issues.

    If possible, I strongly encourage having friendly witnesses during UOC and not being alone also seams to give a less threatening profile.



    A-CA,

    You may want to start a dialog with a supervisor and suggest training the officer's along the lines of the Ca. Peace Officer Association's open carry letter and let them know you and others will be doing this in the future.

    Make it a polite letter, but explain the self-defense motivations or CCW reform angles you may have. And that you wish to avoid an adversarial relationship with LEOs.

    Don't let this deter you it is just a bump along the road. I still don't know why you called them but since you're on a first name basisplease continue the dialog and invite them to read this site and check out californiaopencarry.orgfor further information.

    Carry On!



    photo by oleg volk:



  25. #25
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    cato wrote:
    Maybe we'll find out after the 48 hrs. thing runs out and he's 849ed
    What is this 48 hrs thing you write about? Are you talking about the time limit within which the DA must file a complaint against you if you are in custody.No cop is his right mind is going to babysit anyone for 48 hrs only to 849PC them and no cop supervisor is going toallow such a thing. If you are going to be cut free at allit's gonna happen quickly under 849PC or its not gonna happen until much later when the DA decides to reject the case. DA rejections are a completely different thing than 849pc.

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