Olympic Arms "warranty" work...

imported post

OK guys, so I am relatively new to the AR platform, and would like to get a consensus on something here:

I bought an Olympic Arms K3B-M4-A3-TC back in September, before all the panic buying set in. I have only put about 200 rds through her since then. The problem is that the lower receiver will not let mags drop free, and they are extremely hard to seat as well. I have to slam them into the magwell to get them to seat properly, and yank them our with some authority to remove them. I went into Olympic Arms today to ask them to make good on their lifetime warranty and fix the problem. I was told by Andy (customer service manager) that they could run a "2nd broach" through it and recut the channels in the magwell. This process would remove the anodizing, which could not be repaired. My only choice was to either live with it as it is, or ruin the protective anodizing on my lower. I asked for the lower to be replaced, since neither of those options was acceptable to me. I was told that it is "impossible to replace the lower" because they "dont have any lowers to replace it with". After going back and forth about whether they were making lowers in the shop in the back, and whether or not I had a right as an existing customer to a new lower, I agreed to have the lower "re-cut" with the 2nd broach. I requested that I get in writing a statement that this is the prescribed course of action for such an issue, and that the work would not void my warranty. I also asked to get in writing that if there were any more problems after the work is performed that I would receive a new lower receiver. Do any of you see anything wrong with this practice of running a 2nd broach through and re-machining that mag well? The way this is being handled by Olympic Arms does seem very disappointing to me. Advice?

imported post

*cough, cough* Kalashnikov *cough, cough*

imported post

If you shoot your AR any length of time, the anodizing will wear away anyway. Frankly, if it was my rifle with this issue I would probably just fix it myself. There is probably only one or two points of interference that are causing this issue. I have 2 AR's and both have had to have some minor work like this done. Either a small pattern file or some fine wet/dry sandpaper wrapped around a tongue depressor is usually the "cure".

imported post

IMO, bad idea. I would never take a file or sandpaper to my rifle. Besides, it would void the warranty! Also, why would the anodizing wear away? I thought that anodizing was stronger than USGI aluminum mags?...

imported post

If I pay a grand plus for a rifle, it better seat mags properly. And I wouldn't take "sand off the edges" as a fix for a problem on such an expensive item. On my Hi Point, sure, sand off the edges and fix the problem. It was a $150 gun. But an AR? I think not. This is part of the reason why I refuse to buy an AR for what they want for one these days.

imported post

If they need to re-cut the magwell, they need to do it right, which means reanodizing the piece to prevent oxidization of the aluminum (possibly requiring the current anodization to be chemically stripped). If they're unable to do that in a manner that produces a functional lower, they need to provide a replacement working part. Else, they are failing to meet the law (not only just their warranty claims).

Under 62A.2:

313
(1) Express warranties by the seller are created as follows:
(b) Any description of the goods which is made part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall conform to the description.
(c) Any sample or model which is made part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the whole of the goods shall conform to the sample or model.

Click to expand...

Per b, the description of the good is an AR-15 lower, and per c, the model needs to be conformed to (such that it is functionally conformant to the sample/model part).

Moreover

315
Where the seller at the time of contracting has reason to know any particular purpose for which the goods are required and that the buyer is relying on the seller's skill or judgment to select or furnish suitable goods, there is unless excluded or modified under the next section an implied warranty that the goods shall be fit for such purpose.

Click to expand...

Basically - no, it's not acceptable that they want to ream out the mag well, damaging the part in order to make it functional.

imported post

Tawnos wrote:

If they need to re-cut the magwell, they need to do it right, which means reanodizing the piece to prevent oxidization of the aluminum (possibly requiring the current anodization to be chemically stripped). If they're unable to do that in a manner that produces a functional lower, they need to provide a replacement working part. Else, they are failing to meet the law (not only just their warranty claims).

Under 62A.2:

313
(1) Express warranties by the seller are created as follows:
(b) Any description of the goods which is made part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall conform to the description.
(c) Any sample or model which is made part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the whole of the goods shall conform to the sample or model.

Click to expand...

Per b, the description of the good is an AR-15 lower, and per c, the model needs to be conformed to (such that it is functionally conformant to the sample/model part).

Moreover

315
Where the seller at the time of contracting has reason to know any particular purpose for which the goods are required and that the buyer is relying on the seller's skill or judgment to select or furnish suitable goods, there is unless excluded or modified under the next section an implied warranty that the goods shall be fit for such purpose.

Click to expand...

Basically - no, it's not acceptable that they want to ream out the mag well, damaging the part in order to make it functional.

Click to expand...

Interesting thought here. Andy at Olympic told me that this is the proper course of action to repair the defect. They cannot re-anodize the part, so I will have a lower with no anodizing in the magwell channels. Whether or not this meets the definition of "non0funtional" is up for debate...

imported post

This is a common problem with Oly Arms AR15 rifles. You should take a look at the ar15.com forums, you will see a whole lot of posts about Oly Arms and their problems. I don't mean to bash you or your rifle but I have personal experience with this company and I don't like them.

imported post

I would go over Andy's head and complain about his lack of proper customer service.

imported post

sirpuma wrote:

I would go over Andy's head and complain about his lack of proper customer service.

Click to expand...

But to whom? I was told that Andy is "the last word" on customer service at Olympic by the other guys.

imported post

SpyderTattoo wrote:

This is a common problem with Oly Arms AR15 rifles. You should take a look at the ar15.com forums, you will see a whole lot of posts about Oly Arms and their problems. I don't mean to bash you or your rifle but I have personal experience with this company and I don't like them.

Click to expand...

I have an Oly. The only problem I had was the carry handle wasn't machined properly and canted a fraction of a degree to the left, making sighting in at 100 near impossible. I have since replaced the barrel and carry handle.

Here's me abusing my Oly with no issues from the gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrvFUuNBY3M&feature=channel_page

imported post

So by Oly's logic: You buy a new car but the driver's door doesn't close because it was made to large (out of spec). The car mfg says the only way to fix it is to grind the edges of the door down, but they won't repaint it because they'd have to strip and repaint the whole door. Riiiiigghhhtttt.......

Seems that the cost of a new lower to Oly would be less than 100 bucks. That's probably less in the long run than re-broaching and re-anodizing, keeping track of all the warranty info, pissing you off as a customer, etc.

imported post

spike89 wrote:

Seems that the cost of a new lower to Oly would be less than 100 bucks. That's probably less in the long run than re-broaching and re-anodizing, keeping track of all the warranty info, pissing you off as a customer, etc.

Click to expand...

Never underestimate the power of a dollar in the hand. During a time like this when they are selling without even trying, they are not going to be thinking ahead to building a loyal customer base for leaner times.


I only buy firearms from companies that I know have a care about customer service, even if they are not perfect all the time, I know I can count on them to back their product. S&W, FNH, to namejust two.

imported post

sv_libertarian wrote:

*cough, cough* Kalashnikov *cough, cough*

Click to expand...

*cough, cough* +1 *cough, cough*

imported post

Robert C Schuetz is the Owner and President of Olympic Arms (among others)

http://www.spoke.com/info/pF0EtJn/RobertSchuetz

There is a contact address in there through the Bank he is director of. You can't get any higher than him.

imported post

sirpuma wrote:

Robert C Schuetz is the Owner and President of Olympic Arms (among others)

http://www.spoke.com/info/pF0EtJn/RobertSchuetz

There is a contact address in there through the Bank he is director of. You can't get any higher than him.

Click to expand...

Oh how very helpful. I think I will be writing a letter explaining why he lost the sale of a 1911 due to this whole situation. Never again.

imported post

funny you should say something about oly arms.

I had a complete upper from them and it took over 300 ft/lb or so to get the barrel nut off, when i called and told them they said it voids the warranty and they have no way to prove that it was there fault, yet when i asked what they torque the nuts to, they said they just do it by hand...

so I destroyed the upper receiver in the process and had to get a new one.

as far as reaming out the mag well as what it sounds like they are doing is a good idea as long as they refinish what they can you should be ok.

that and most lowers are aluminum if I am correct so rust is not as big of an issue.

brownells also has some great home finish kits that would work.

you should also check your mag release for function and to ensure it is not over tightened.

good luck with oly arms, they dont seem to be the best latley

imported post

sean3686 wrote:

funny you should say something about oly arms.

I had a complete upper from them and it took over 300 ft/lb or so to get the barrel nut off, when i called and told them they said it voids the warranty and they have no way to prove that it was there fault, yet when i asked what they torque the nuts to, they said they just do it by hand...

so I destroyed the upper receiver in the process and had to get a new one.

as far as reaming out the mag well as what it sounds like they are doing is a good idea as long as they refinish what they can you should be ok.

that and most lowers are aluminum if I am correct so rust is not as big of an issue.

brownells also has some great home finish kits that would work.

you should also check your mag release for function and to ensure it is not over tightened.

good luck with oly arms, they dont seem to be the best latley

Click to expand...

If they refinished it, which should include alodine (which is an anti-corrosive treatment for aluminum), it would not be a big deal as the part is obviously not within specs as it sits. It is a big deal to not finish it however. You are correct that aluminum does not rust but it does corrode just the same as Iron does, it just does it in a different manner.

imported post

There should be NO problem with re-anodizing the lower anyway.... anodizing aluminum consists of charging (electrically) the part to be anodized, placing it in a bath of electrolyte, charging the electrolyte with an opposite charge from the part, and wait for the aluminum to grow an atoms-thick layer of corundum (a.k.a. sapphire) which is somewhat porous at this stage. Then the part is placed in a vat of dye, to turn it whatever color you wish. Done. If they can't do that, even though their factory does it every day, you may want to find another vendor for your personal arms. Sounds like their "customer service" guy is full of "used food" and should be more appreciative of the customers. this is IMHO, of course...
Bottom line is this, however... it should have never happened in the first place, they should be checking tolerances on every weapon they produce, so only the guy on the business end has to worry.
Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience, thanks for the heads up, I was going to head to their factory and buy some raw parts to build a 1911, but maybe not, now...

imported post

Regrettably, Oly has had on-going challenges with the lower receivers and specificially, dimensionally incorrect mag wells. A PCR-1 I purchased from them was reluctant to drop all but the most bare of magazines. Fine for a precision rifle, I suppose. Not for for a games gun.

They make fine barrels and I have people I call friends there. But I remain reluctant to use their products.

Sorry.