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Thread: Lost or stolen handgun?

  1. #1
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    http://www.vsp.state.va.us/downloads/sp-194.pdf

    § 18.2-308.2:2 (Q.) 2. f
    A person whose handgun is stolen or irretrievably lost who deems
    it essential that such handgun be replaced immediately may
    purchase another handgun, even if the person has previously
    purchased a handgun within a thirty-day period, provided:

    (i) the person provides the firearms dealer with a copy of the
    official police report or a summary thereof, on forms
    provided by the Department of State Police, from the law enforcement
    agency that took the report of the lost or
    stolen handgun;

    (ii) the official police report or summary thereof contains the
    name and address of the handgun owner, the description of
    the handgun, the location of the loss or theft, the date of
    the loss or theft, and the date the loss or theft was
    reported to the law-enforcement agency; and

    (iii) the date of the loss or theft as reflected on the official
    police report or summary thereof occurred within thirty days
    of the person's attempt to replace the handgun. The firearms
    dealer shall attach a copy of the official police report or
    summary thereof to the original copy of the Virginia
    firearms transaction report completed for the transaction
    and retain it for the period prescribed by the Department of
    State Police.


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    You mean like the gal that bought a gun and kept in her unlocked car?

    She wanted to go get another one right away and I had to complete the form for her.

    I begged her to secure it this time since she did not want to take it into the house.

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    Sheriff wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    You mean like the gal that bought a gun and kept in her unlocked car?

    She wanted to go get another one right away and I had to complete the form for her.

    I begged her to secure it this time since she did not want to take it into the house.
    Well, you're asking for an opinion, so yes, like her for example.

    Anybody who leaves a firearm in an unlocked car should not be allowed to possess a firearm in the first place.
    Before you could buy more than one a month with your cc permit. I had bought a pistol while waiting forone of my submachine gun tax stamps. They are also concidered a pistol. So when it came in earlier than expected I just went to my local State Police HQ and they gave me a form to fill out to get another pistol without waiting the month. It took a day or so but no problem and I got my toy.

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    noah wrote:
    Before you could buy more than one a month with your cc permit. I had bought a pistol while waiting forone of my submachine gun tax stamps. They are also concidered a pistol. So when it came in earlier than expected I just went to my local State Police HQ and they gave me a form to fill out to get another pistol without waiting the month. It took a day or so but no problem and I got my toy.
    No kidding! I had no idea.

    I do like the CC permit exemption. I think the one a month rule is kinda pointless.

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    I only read and pasted that portion of the state code that was clipped and provided to me.

    I did not read the entire code as it was not necessary. It seems that you had much more time than I did.

    Here is the entire code and a good reason I would have little interest in reading it today.


    18.2-308.2:2. Criminal history record information check required for the transfer of certain firearms.
    A. Any person purchasing from a dealer a firearm as herein defined shall consent in writing, on a form to be provided by the Department of State Police, to have the dealer obtain criminal history record information. Such form shall include only the written consent; the name, birth date, gender, race, citizenship, and social security number and/or any other identification number; the number of firearms by category intended to be sold, rented, traded, or transferred; and answers by the applicant to the following questions: (i) has the applicant been convicted of a felony offense or found guilty or adjudicated delinquent as a juvenile 14 years of age or older at the time of the offense of a delinquent act that would be a felony if committed by an adult; (ii) is the applicant subject to a court order restraining the applicant from harassing, stalking, or threatening the applicant's child or intimate partner, or a child of such partner, or is the applicant subject to a protective order; and (iii) has the applicant ever been acquitted by reason of insanity and prohibited from purchasing, possessing or transporting a firearm pursuant to � 18.2-308.1:1 or any substantially similar law of any other jurisdiction, been adjudicated legally incompetent, mentally incapacitated or adjudicated an incapacitated person and prohibited from purchasing a firearm pursuant to � 18.2-308.1:2 or any substantially similar law of any other jurisdiction, or been involuntarily admitted to an inpatient facility or involuntarily ordered to outpatient mental health treatment and prohibited from purchasing a firearm pursuant to � 18.2-308.1:3 or any substantially similar law of any other jurisdiction.
    B. 1. No dealer shall sell, rent, trade or transfer from his inventory any such firearm to any other person who is a resident of Virginia until he has (i) obtained written consent and the other information on the consent form specified in subsection A, and provided the Department of State Police with the name, birth date, gender, race, citizenship, and social security and/or any other identification number and the number of firearms by category intended to be sold, rented, traded or transferred and (ii) requested criminal history record information by a telephone call to or other communication authorized by the State Police and is authorized by subdivision 2 of this subsection to complete the sale or other such transfer. To establish personal identification and residence in Virginia for purposes of this section, a dealer must require any prospective purchaser to present one photo-identification form issued by a governmental agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense, and other documentation of residence. Except where the photo-identification was issued by the United States Department of Defense, the other documentation of residence shall show an address identical to that shown on the photo-identification form, such as evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax, or a current (a) lease, (b) utility or telephone bill, (c) voter registration card, (d) bank check, (e) passport, (f) automobile registration, or (g) hunting or fishing license; other current identification allowed as evidence of residency by Part 178.124 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations and ATF Ruling 2001-5; or other documentation of residence determined to be acceptable by the Department of Criminal Justice Services, that corroborates that the prospective purchaser currently resides in Virginia. Where the photo-identification was issued by the Department of Defense, permanent orders assigning the purchaser to a duty post in Virginia shall be the only other required documentation of residence. For the purposes of this section and establishment of residency for firearm purchase, residency shall be deemed to be the permanent duty post of a member of the armed forces. When the photo-identification presented to a dealer by the prospective purchaser is a driver's license or other photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles, and such identification form contains a date of issue, the dealer shall not, except for a renewed driver's license or other photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles, sell or otherwise transfer a firearm to the prospective purchaser until 30 days after the date of issue of an original or duplicate driver's license unless the prospective purchaser also presents a copy of his Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles driver's record showing that the original date of issue of the driver's license was more than 30 days prior to the attempted purchase.
    In addition, no dealer shall sell, rent, trade or transfer from his inventory any assault firearm to any person who is not a citizen of the United States or who is not a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence. To establish citizenship or lawful admission for a permanent residence for purposes of purchasing an assault firearm, a dealer shall require a prospective purchaser to present a certified birth certificate or a certificate of birth abroad issued by the United States State Department, a certificate of citizenship or a certificate of naturalization issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, an unexpired U.S. passport, a United States citizen identification card, a current voter registration card, a current selective service registration card, or an immigrant visa or other documentation of status as a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services.
    Upon receipt of the request for a criminal history record information check, the State Police shall (1) review its criminal history record information to determine if the buyer or transferee is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm by state or federal law, (2) inform the dealer if its record indicates that the buyer or transferee is so prohibited, and (3) provide the dealer with a unique reference number for that inquiry.
    2. The State Police shall provide its response to the requesting dealer during the dealer's request, or by return call without delay. If the criminal history record information check indicates the prospective purchaser or transferee has a disqualifying criminal record or has been acquitted by reason of insanity and committed to the custody of the Commissioner of Mental Health, Mental Retardation and Substance Abuse Services, the State Police shall have until the end of the dealer's next business day to advise the dealer if its records indicate the buyer or transferee is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm by state or federal law. If not so advised by the end of the dealer's next business day, a dealer who has fulfilled the requirements of subdivision 1 of this subsection may immediately complete the sale or transfer and shall not be deemed in violation of this section with respect to such sale or transfer. In case of electronic failure or other circumstances beyond the control of the State Police, the dealer shall be advised immediately of the reason for such delay and be given an estimate of the length of such delay. After such notification, the State Police shall, as soon as possible but in no event later than the end of the dealer's next business day, inform the requesting dealer if its records indicate the buyer or transferee is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm by state or federal law. A dealer who fulfills the requirements of subdivision 1 of this subsection and is told by the State Police that a response will not be available by the end of the dealer's next business day may immediately complete the sale or transfer and shall not be deemed in violation of this section with respect to such sale or transfer.
    3. Except as required by subsection D of � 9.1-132, the State Police shall not maintain records longer than 30 days, except for multiple handgun transactions for which records shall be maintained for 12 months, from any dealer's request for a criminal history record information check pertaining to a buyer or transferee who is not found to be prohibited from possessing and transporting a firearm under state or federal law. However, the log on requests made may be maintained for a period of 12 months, and such log shall consist of the name of the purchaser, the dealer identification number, the unique approval number and the transaction date.
    4. On the last day of the week following the sale or transfer of any firearm, the dealer shall mail or deliver the written consent form required by subsection A to the Department of State Police. The State Police shall immediately initiate a search of all available criminal history record information to determine if the purchaser is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm under state or federal law. If the search discloses information indicating that the buyer or transferee is so prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm, the State Police shall inform the chief law-enforcement officer in the jurisdiction where the sale or transfer occurred and the dealer without delay.
    5. Notwithstanding any other provisions of this section, rifles and shotguns may be purchased by persons who are citizens of the United States or persons lawfully admitted for permanent residence but residents of other states under the terms of subsections A and B upon furnishing the dealer with proof of citizenship or status as a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence and one photo-identification form issued by a governmental agency of the person's state of residence and one other form of identification determined to be acceptable by the Department of Criminal Justice Services.
    6. For the purposes of this subsection, the phrase "dealer's next business day" shall not include December 25.
    C. No dealer shall sell, rent, trade or transfer from his inventory any firearm, except when the transaction involves a rifle or a shotgun and can be accomplished pursuant to the provisions of subdivision B 5 to any person who is not a resident of Virginia unless he has first obtained from the Department of State Police a report indicating that a search of all available criminal history record information has not disclosed that the person is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm under state or federal law. The dealer shall obtain the required report by mailing or delivering the written consent form required under subsection A to the State Police within 24 hours of its execution. If the dealer has complied with the provisions of this subsection and has not received the required report from the State Police within 10 days from the date the written consent form was mailed to the Department of State Police, he shall not be deemed in violation of this section for thereafter completing the sale or transfer.
    D. Nothing herein shall prevent a resident of the Commonwealth, at his option, from buying, renting or receiving a firearm from a dealer in Virginia by obtaining a criminal history record information check through the dealer as provided in subsection C.
    E. If any buyer or transferee is denied the right to purchase a firearm under this section, he may exercise his right of access to and review and correction of criminal history record information under � 9.1-132 or institute a civil action as provided in � 9.1-135, provided any such action is initiated within 30 days of such denial.
    F. Any dealer who willfully and intentionally requests, obtains, or seeks to obtain criminal history record information under false pretenses, or who willfully and intentionally disseminates or seeks to disseminate criminal history record information except as authorized in this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.
    G. For purposes of this section:
    "Actual buyer" means a person who executes the consent form required in subsection B or C, or other such firearm transaction records as may be required by federal law.
    "Antique firearm" means:
    1. Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898;
    2. Any replica of any firearm described in subdivision 1 of this definition if such replica (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade;
    3. Any muzzle-loading rifle, muzzle-loading shotgun, or muzzle-loading pistol that is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and that cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subdivision, the term "antique firearm" shall not include any weapon that incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm that is converted into a muzzle-loading weapon, or any muzzle-loading weapon that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breech-block, or any combination thereof; or
    4. Any curio or relic as defined in this subsection.
    "Assault firearm" means any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol which expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.
    "Curios or relics" means firearms that are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
    1. Firearms that were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, which use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade, but not including replicas thereof;
    2. Firearms that are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
    3. Any other firearms that derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collectors' items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.
    "Dealer" means any person licensed as a dealer pursuant to 18 U.S.C. � 921 et seq.
    "Firearm" means any handgun, shotgun, or rifle that will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material.
    "Handgun" means any pistol or revolver or other firearm originally designed, made and intended to fire single or multiple projectiles by means of an explosion of a combustible material from one or more barrels when held in one hand.
    "Lawfully admitted for permanent residence" means the status of having been lawfully accorded the privilege of residing permanently in the United States as an immigrant in accordance with the immigration laws, such status not having changed.
    H. The Department of Criminal Justice Services shall promulgate regulations to ensure the identity, confidentiality and security of all records and data provided by the Department of State Police pursuant to this section.
    I. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) transactions between persons who are licensed as firearms importers or collectors, manufacturers or dealers pursuant to 18 U.S.C. � 921 et seq.; (ii) purchases by or sales to any law-enforcement officer or agent of the United States, the Commonwealth or any local government; or (iii) antique firearms, curios or relics.
    J. The provisions of this section shall not apply to restrict purchase, trade or transfer of firearms by a resident of Virginia when the resident of Virginia makes such purchase, trade or transfer in another state, in which case the laws and regulations of that state and the United States governing the purchase, trade or transfer of firearms shall apply. A National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) check shall be performed prior to such purchase, trade or transfer of firearms.
    J1. All licensed firearms dealers shall collect a fee of $2 for every transaction for which a criminal history record information check is required pursuant to this section, except that a fee of $5 shall be collected for every transaction involving an out-of-state resident. Such fee shall be transmitted to the Department of State Police by the last day of the month following the sale for deposit in a special fund for use by the State Police to offset the cost of conducting criminal history record information checks under the provisions of this section.
    K. Any person willfully and intentionally making a materially false statement on the consent form required in subsection B or C or on such firearm transaction records as may be required by federal law, shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony.
    L. Except as provided in � 18.2-308.2:1, any dealer who willfully and intentionally sells, rents, trades or transfers a firearm in violation of this section shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.
    L1. Any person who attempts to solicit, persuade, encourage, or entice any dealer to transfer or otherwise convey a firearm other than to the actual buyer, as well as any other person who willfully and intentionally aids or abets such person, shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. This subsection shall not apply to a federal law-enforcement officer or a law-enforcement officer as defined in � 9.1-101, in the performance of his official duties, or other person under his direct supervision.
    M. Any person who purchases a firearm with the intent to (i) resell or otherwise provide such firearm to any person who he knows or has reason to believe is ineligible to purchase or otherwise receive from a dealer a firearm for whatever reason or (ii) transport such firearm out of the Commonwealth to be resold or otherwise provided to another person who the transferor knows is ineligible to purchase or otherwise receive a firearm, shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony. However, if the violation of this subsection involves such a transfer of more than one firearm, the person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years.
    N. Any person who is ineligible to purchase or otherwise receive or possess a firearm in the Commonwealth who solicits, employs or assists any person in violating subsection M shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony and shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years.
    O. All driver's licenses issued on or after July 1, 1994, shall carry a letter designation indicating whether the driver's license is an original, duplicate or renewed driver's license.
    P. Except as provided in subdivisions 1, 2 and 3 of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person who is not a licensed firearms dealer to purchase more than one handgun within any 30-day period. A violation of this subsection shall be punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    1. Purchases in excess of one handgun within a 30-day period may be made upon completion of an enhanced background check, as described herein, by special application to the Department of State Police listing the number and type of handguns to be purchased and transferred for lawful business or personal use, in a collector series, for collections, as a bulk purchase from estate sales and for similar purposes. Such applications shall be signed under oath by the applicant on forms provided by the Department of State Police, shall state the purpose for the purchase above the limit, and shall require satisfactory proof of residency and identity. Such application shall be in addition to the firearms sales report required by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF). The Superintendent of State Police shall promulgate regulations, pursuant to the Administrative Process Act (� 2.2-4000 et seq.), for the implementation of an application process for purchases of handguns above the limit.
    Upon being satisfied that these requirements have been met, the Department of State Police shall forthwith issue to the applicant a nontransferable certificate, which shall be valid for seven days from the date of issue. The certificate shall be surrendered to the dealer by the prospective purchaser prior to the consummation of such sale and shall be kept on file at the dealer's place of business for inspection as provided in � 54.1-4201 for a period of not less than two years. Upon request of any local law-enforcement agency, and pursuant to its regulations, the Department of State Police may certify such local law-enforcement agency to serve as its agent to receive applications and, upon authorization by the Department of State Police, issue certificates forthwith pursuant to this subsection. Applications and certificates issued under this subsection shall be maintained as records as provided in subdivision B 3. The Department of State Police shall make available to local law-enforcement agencies all records concerning certificates issued pursuant to this subsection and all records provided for in subdivision B 3.
    2. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to:
    a. A law-enforcement agency;
    b. An agency duly authorized to perform law-enforcement duties;
    c. State and local correctional facilities;
    d. A private security company licensed to do business within the Commonwealth;
    e. The purchase of antique firearms as herein defined;
    f. A person whose handgun is stolen or irretrievably lost who deems it essential that such handgun be replaced immediately. Such person may purchase another handgun, even if the person has previously purchased a handgun within a 30-day period, provided (i) the person provides the firearms dealer with a copy of the official police report or a summary thereof, on forms provided by the Department of State Police, from the law-enforcement agency that took the report of the lost or stolen handgun; (ii) the official police report or summary thereof contains the name and address of the handgun owner, the description of the handgun, the location of the loss or theft, the date of the loss or theft, and the date the loss or theft was reported to the law-enforcement agency; and (iii) the date of the loss or theft as reflected on the official police report or summary thereof occurred within 30 days of the person's attempt to replace the handgun. The firearms dealer shall attach a copy of the official police report or summary thereof to the original copy of the Virginia firearms transaction report completed for the transaction and retain it for the period prescribed by the Department of State Police;
    g. A person who trades in a handgun at the same time he makes a handgun purchase and as a part of the same transaction, provided that no more than one transaction of this nature is completed per day;
    h. A person who holds a valid Virginia permit to carry a concealed handgun;
    i. A person who purchases a handgun in a private sale. For purposes of this subdivision, a private sale means purchase from a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection of curios or relics as herein defined, or who sells all or part of such collection of curios and relics; or
    j. A law-enforcement officer. For purposes of this subdivision, a law-enforcement officer means any employee of a police department or sheriff's office that is part of or administered by the Commonwealth or any political subdivision thereof, and who is responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the enforcement of the penal, traffic or highway laws of the Commonwealth.
    3. For the purposes of this subsection, "purchase" shall not include the exchange or replacement of a handgun by a seller for a handgun purchased from such seller by the same person seeking the exchange or replacement within the 30-day period immediately preceding the date of exchange or replacement.
    (1989, c. 745; 1990, cc. 594, 692; 1991, cc. 515, 525, 716; 1992, cc. 637, 872; 1993, cc. 451, 461, 486, 493, 674; 1994, c. 624; 1997, c. 341; 1998, c. 844; 2002, c. 695; 2003, cc. 833, 976; 2004, cc. 354, 461, 837, 904, 922; 2005, cc. 578, 859; 2007, c. 509; 2008, cc. 854, 869.)




  7. #7
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    ...SNIP
    I think the one a month rule is kinda pointless.
    +1

    Not only does it not work to any reasonable purpose, it is really draining my cash reserves to buy one every month.:what:
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    In addition, no dealer shall sell, rent, trade or transfer from his inventory any assault firearm to any person who is not a citizen of the United States or who is not a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence.
    I am not a lawyer or in law enforcement. But it is this kind of repetitive nonsense in our laws that is not needed.

    An Assault Firearm is already a restricted item.

    An assault rifle is a rifle designed for combat, with selective fire (capable of shooting either like a machine gun or one bullet at a time). Assault rifles are the standard infantry weapons in most modern armies, having largely superseded or supplemented battle rifles (which are similar to assault rifles but are larger and more powerful) such as the World War II-era M1 Garand and SVT-40. Examples of assault rifles include the AK-47, the M16 rifle, and the Steyr AUG.


    As defined by Wikipedia

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    Sheriff wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    I did not read the entire code as it was not necessary. It seems that you had much more time than I did.
    This is actually the problem in law enforcement nowadays, cops do not know simple basic laws, and theexemptions often contained in each said law. I don't blame you, I blamethe training academies. They don't preach the fine art of studying and reviewing the law frequently after graduation,or the fine art of keeping up with the frequent changes in the law.

    Me... I have memorized every word in the entire Virgnia State Code.
    Sheriff,

    Show me how I will charge people in violation of this code and I might learn it word for word. I suspect even a judge or attorney would still need to look it up as it is far too long to commit to memory.

    As it is titled:

    "Criminal history record information check required for the transfer of certain firearms."

    It is clearly a code that deals with background checks being required. I do not have anything to do with the sale or transfer of firearms so I fail so see why I would need to learn THIS code out of all the others that I use daily.

    But I will admit that I knew ahead of time that you or some other member here would respond as you did. The classic "Cops so not know the codes" argument.

    This is no "basic law" that a cop needs to know. I suspect you will have me learn the law regarding no oyster harvesting on Sunday too while I do not work anywhere near a body of water.

  10. #10
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    You two need to get a room.....
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    The original premise of the current off topic discussion is ridiculous. There is NO WAY that any officer can possibly learn ALL the code sections word for word. Even learning a summary of all the laws is an impossible task. While many here contend that this is precisely what should be required of any LEO, it is a ridiculous contention.

    Doctors do not know all medical knowledge, lawyers and judges do not know all laws and cases by heart, and the list goes on and on. The fact is that NOBODY in ANY profession knows everything about that profession. Everyone does the best they can to keep current in those areas that relate to the most common things they will encounter. Believe it or not firearms are not one of the most often encountered issues for the average LEO. In most jurisdictions guns would not even make the top ten issues.

    All the people here who argue that all LEOs should be required to know ALL laws are simply nuts. Most of these arguments are based on a single minded,myopic view of the universe, focused on the single issue of gun laws and seated in a hatred for police.

    Every citizen of this country should know the constitution by heart, but is is obvious a lot of people here have never even read the document. Suppose you had to recite the Constitution and ALL of the amendments from memory before you could vote. That should really reduce the cost of elections because very few could recite even those few basic laws.

    The world is larger than guns and gun ownership laws despite the insistence of people here that all LEOs should know all gun laws. There are thousands and thousands of things that a street LEO encounters on a regular basis that are a lot more common than a guys trying to buy two guns in a single month.

    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    I have thought the one hand gun a month was a stupid idea by one of our stupidest gov's. When Wilder signed it their was some guns winding up in NY with gang's. Some guns were purchased in VA so he made it one a month. I doubt there are less guns in NY because of this stupid law.

    Actually it hasn't apply ed to me in so long I forgot about it until I was at VA beach gun show this weekend buying a pistol and the guy asked if I had bought one in the last month.

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    Sheriff wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    This is no "basic law" that a cop needs to know.
    Gosh Reno, I just don't know what to tell you. If a shop owner calls 911 and reports a person attempting to illegally purchase a firearm, does the shopowner have to stand there and explain the law to you when you arrive on scene? Remember now, a state trooper is not always available to protect and serve sincetroopers are spread so thin statewide.

    Not being able to buy more than one handgun per month in Virginia is a simple basic law. You should know this law and remember this law just from the media coverage the law generated back when it was passed. It generated quite a pro-gun vs anti-gun debate at the time. It was in newspapers, it was on television, and it was all over the Internet.

    LEO 229 wrote:
    I suspect you will have me learn the law regarding no oyster harvesting on Sunday too while I do not work anywhere near a body of water
    I think it's great you are not employed near any large body of water.

    You can barely keep your head above water in debates here.
    HA!! You wish!!

    I know from experience that I will NEVER be called to a gun store for someone trying to buy a second gun too soon.

    What will probably happen is the gun store will call Richmond State police HQ where the prior transactions are kept on file for a brief period of time. The request would be DENIED because of the prior purchase being too soon. No state police are going to be dispatched to make any arrest. The customer will be told to return when 30 days have passed.

    The gun store wanting to sell guns would know all the ways around the limitation. This being one, a CC permit, or being a LEO. After soliciting this information the transaction would be done again and eventually granted.

    The state police only respond when someone who is PROHIBITED from being in possession a gun. Not because you tried to buy another too soon.

    So while I am aware of the one gun a month, the form to permit a replacement gun to be purchased, and the CC permit exception... I was unaware that the state police could grant a waiver.

    So what you were telling me earlier is that I need to know that the state police can grant a waiver to the one gun a month. To THIS I ask why I needed to know it as I cannot enforce it. Not knowing it only means I could not tell people how to get two guns.

    Telling people how to buy two guns on the same say is simply not in my daily job description.


    :celebrate And the only one playing in water is you while you try to splash us adults while you play in the kiddie pool!!

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    One handguna month exceptions, CHP holders, and did Mr. DNC sign the militaryone? What others are there?

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    The original premise of the current off topic discussion is ridiculous. There is NO WAY that any officer can possibly learn ALL the code sections word for word. Even learning a summary of all the laws is an impossible task. While many here contend that this is precisely what should be required of any LEO, it is a ridiculous contention.

    Doctors do not know all medical knowledge, lawyers and judges do not know all laws and cases by heart, and the list goes on and on. The fact is that NOBODY in ANY profession knows everything about that profession. Everyone does the best they can to keep current in those areas that relate to the most common things they will encounter. Believe it or not firearms are not one of the most often encountered issues for the average LEO. In most jurisdictions guns would not even make the top ten issues.

    All the people here who argue that all LEOs should be required to know ALL laws are simply nuts. Most of these arguments are based on a single minded,myopic view of the universe, focused on the single issue of gun laws and seated in a hatred for police.

    Every citizen of this country should know the constitution by heart, but is is obvious a lot of people here have never even read the document. Suppose you had to recite the Constitution and ALL of the amendments from memory before you could vote. That should really reduce the cost of elections because very few could recite even those few basic laws.

    The world is larger than guns and gun ownership laws despite the insistence of people here that all LEOs should know all gun laws. There are thousands and thousands of things that a street LEO encounters on a regular basis that are a lot more common than a guys trying to buy two guns in a single month.
    Many will joke they were kidding but far too many truly believe this.

    How many different specialties are there in the medical field? Does a doctor need to know every area? They do a general study of medicine and then may gravitate towards one area. Eyes, nose, throat or brain surgery or groin-a-cology. I do not expecte a foot doctor to know how to check my ears for hearing loss.

    Police work is no different. The street officer does not need to study financial crimes, rape, or homicide. The detective does not need to study sign violations or gun laws. The motor carrier officer studies commerial vehicle codes that nobod else will use.

    There is simply too much for one person to be expected to know it all.

    Even attorneys, prosecutors, and judges take time to crack the law books open since they too work with laws daily but do not know them all.

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    SNIP There is NO WAY that any officer can possibly learn ALL the code sections word for word. Even learning a summary of all the laws is an impossible task.

    Good reason to cut down on the number of laws, eh?

    But, for some reason, I don't think we'll hear from the poor over-lawed police or their unions about not passing any more laws or cutting back.

    Wouldn't that be the Jeffersonian liberal cat's meow? Headline: "Police Unions Unanimous! No new laws! We can't keep up with the ones we've got already."

    Note: Cat reference used specifically for Hawkflyer.



    Since its a plank in my soap box, or platform as one has called it, I'll take this opportunity to mention something related.

    The problem isn't that police can't learn the laws. The problem is that some police act beyond their authority before finding out whetherthereis a law against whatever they are"investigating." If there is no law againstaparticular activity,police have no authority to takenon-consensual action againstthe citizen.Ifa police officer cannot correctly say to himself, "I know to a dead moral certainty that ______ is illegal and the law definitely hasn't changed since the last time I read it," then he has no business takingnon-consensualaction against the citizen until after he checks the law to make sure.

    This one step alone woulderase manynegative police-OCer encounters.

    And would pretty muchmollify most of the demands that police learn or know all the laws.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Sheriff wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Police work is no different. The street officer does not need to study financial crimes, rape, or homicide.
    So true. Cops don't embarrass their agency andend up getting

    sued if they stick to the duties they are suppose to be doing. :shock:

    disclaimer: No, I am not implying Reno229 has been sued.
    I cannot fault people for striving to take on new assignments. But they must know their limitations.

    But now we are headed off topic where we should be talking about guns and buying more than one at a time.

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    Sheriff wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    But now we are headed off topic where we should be talking about guns and buying more than one at a time.
    The entire thread is off topic. Only being able to buy one handgun

    per monthin Virginia has nothing to do with open carry.
    It has plenty to do with open carry. If I can only buy one per month, it takes a full year before I can openly carry all 12 firearms at the same time .

    That said, I do not ever openly carry more than one firearm at a time. I only have two hands and I prefer to keep one empty in case I need it for something.

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    There is a guy who works behind the counter at A&P Arms who displays three semi-autos, two which are in the small of his back. I asked him what was wrong with his other hip.

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    darthmord wrote:
    Sheriff wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    But now we are headed off topic where we should be talking about guns and buying more than one at a time.
    The entire thread is off topic. Only being able to buy one handgun

    per monthin Virginia has nothing to do with open carry.
    It has plenty to do with open carry. If I can only buy one per month, it takes a full year before I can openly carry all 12 firearms at the same time .

    That said, I do not ever openly carry more than one firearm at a time. I only have two hands and I prefer to keep one empty in case I need it for something.
    Typical Sheriff mentality.....

    He is consistent. He has a put down or negative comment in every post! He is like a box of cracker jacks. You know there is a prize inside every box and you pretty much know ahead of time that it is going to be worthless!

    This is valuable information and gun related. So it is right on topic.

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    I wonder, is there a limit on how many guns you can steal per month? I mean, If I want 2... I can buy one and steal another, and that should be fine, right? :-P
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    ixtow wrote:
    I wonder, is there a limit on how many guns you can steal per month? I mean, If I want 2... I can buy one and steal another, and that should be fine, right? :-P
    Point taken!!

    However, if you are one of the few that are looking to buy here and sell there to make a profit... you have to unload that stolen gun. Not something everyone wants to get involved in.

    The whole "one gun a month" is just dumb in that it punished all the people that buy for themselves. But like most situations the whole is punished for the actions of the few.

    All it did was get more people to buy one gun a month on behalf of the guy wanting to sell them. So it is still going to happen but now it involves more people.

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    Sheriff wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    All it did was get more people to buy one gun a month on behalf of the guy wanting to sell them. So it is still going to happen but now it involves more people.
    Can you cite any actual cases whatsoever to back up this claim?
    I will counter with" Please cite one case that proves otherwise."

    Sheriff, this is a forum. We all say what is on out mind here. Not everything is required to have a cite or identified as an opinion. It is not my fault if you cannot identify when someone is "just saying" versus "this is absolute undisputed fact".

    If it makes you happy... For those that are not smart enough to distinguish fact from a casual conversation.. my post above was an opinion. Obviously!!

    If I said the government was "screwing us over" with all the new gun laws they make I suspect everyone would be in agreement. No cite required as to "why" since we could all conclude that this is likely to be true.


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    Citizen wrote:
    ...SNIP
    Good reason to cut down on the number of laws, eh?
    SNIP...
    You certainly get no argument from me on that point. Last reliable count i saw was that there were over 22,000 firearms laws in the US. That is just FIREARMS related laws. Just imagine how many laws there must be total. I bet you could fill a libra.... Oh wait ... there are libraries full of law books. Never Mind.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    ...SNIP
    Good reason to cut down on the number of laws, eh?
    SNIP...
    You certainly get no argument from me on that point. Last reliable count i saw was that there were over 22,000 firearms laws in the US. That is just FIREARMS related laws. Just imagine how many laws there must be total. I bet you could fill a libra.... Oh wait ... there are libraries full of law books. Never Mind.
    And I think we can all agree that cops do not enact those laws. They are written and pushed forward by others to the state lawmakers.

    Are there too many laws on the books now? Hell yes!

    We all know that a law written in a book does not stop people from breaking it.

    People here complain that cops are stopping people they suspect are breaking the law not knowing that the law does not even exist.

    In our society we have a sense of what is right and wrong without even having to know there is a law against it. Sometimes it is morally wrong but not legally wrong. I am not saying that OCing is morally wrong. Just pointing out that some people will see it as some type of violation such as a concealed weapon laws are widely known.

    The courts have ruled that you can be stopped for a brief period of time in order for the officer to determine if you are breaking any laws.

    This gives the police a little time to check without allowing you to simply walk off. If this was not allowed you could commit a crime in front of the police and escape before they had a chance to check on it. Then they have to go look for you.

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...10/ai_n9241529

    While it is not against the law in Virginia to openly carry... many citizens and some officers believe it is. It is from this lack of knowledge, training, experience, and exposure that an officer might stop someone for being armed.

    The courts do not expect the police to turn a blind eye on something they find suspicious but cannot determine for sure if a law is being broken. So they are given some altitude to investigate and this may require stopping you.

    It is unfortunate but it is likely not due to any malice on the part of the officer who simply did not know. It would be at best.... misfeasance.

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