Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: school question?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Aliso Viejo, ,
    Posts
    146

    Post imported post

    Is Martial arts academy or Bakery school or any other similar none K-12 schools counts as a school zone?

  2. #2
    Newbie cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,335

    Post imported post

    Only K-12 for the 1000' zone and then college/universities for an on campus property only ban.


    Read penal code 626.9


    photo by oleg volk:


  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Orange County, California, USA
    Posts
    67

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA, ,
    Posts
    105

    Post imported post

    "I Google mapped this mall. For info there is a elementary school south of this area. It is well within 1000 feet, as a crow flys. And this is not the lot but some of the stores as well. For instance, if one was to go to the WalMart... that’s less than 800 feet. Too close for comfort,especially where you park. Be careful!"



    Someone wrote that on another post so I just copied and pasted it here.



    You know, I've had a question I been meaning to ask about school zones as well and I am glad someone brought this up. Okay, penal code says 1000' away from schools K-12 or college and universities campuses. What I would like to know and this may sound really stupid, but just how are they (the governing bodies) measuring the distance? I mean, just how precise is the measurement...are they measuring from the start of the property of the school like say the curb in front of the school and then measuring away down the street to say the next stop light? Or does the measurements start where the posted signs "School Zone" are and then measure from there?
    I know this is really a stupid question but I haven't seen anything that really clarifies where the actual measurements start in order to get an accurate measurement of 1000'.The Walmart where I happen to go is on the other side of the freeway where a school is, but its the back of a school and there are a couple of businesses in between the back of the school and the freeway itself than the Walmart.

    As for measuring how far away Walmart would be from this school by lets just say driving or walking. Lets say we are leaving this school, you would pull out, turn right and go down towards a stoplight. On that corner are several businesses as the actual school zone had ended already before even coming up upon the businesses. You would turn right and go down the street, again passing the rear of these businesses and then driving next to a Saturn Dealership. Once you pass that, you pass a condo complex and then you pass under the freeway overpasses and then pass over a flood canal, then coming to a stoplight where the Walmart sits on the opposite corner.

    Now I know this is well over a 1000' but again, this is where my question is trying to be asked. Are they measuring from curbside next to the school property or posted signs, then down the road and around corners and what have you. Or are they gonna be really anal and say "We measured from the rear of the property, over rooftops, through fences and through freeways, and then through flood canals and then a road and then a Walmart parking lot just to measure how far away you really were".

    I really hope this makes sense as I know I have probably confused the masses but I haven't really seen this addressed before and it really doesn't specifically say in the Penal Code where they start the "actual" measurement other then it just says...

    (1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public
    or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1
    to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the
    grounds of the public or private school.


    Does this mean 1000' from the grounds itself or where posted signs are posted. Again, sorry for the stupid question as I am just merely trying to clarify where this measurement actually starts if heaven forbid I/you/we/anyone OCing were stopped near these areas and the LEO decides to wanna measure it.


  5. #5
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rosamond, California, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    giaking70 wrote:
    You know, I've had a question I been meaning to ask about school zones as well and I am glad someone brought this up. Okay, penal code says 1000' away from schools K-12 or college and universities campuses.
    No the Penal Code says 1000' away from K-12 Schools. As far as college or university campuses, you can't carry on the college or university property.


    giaking70 wrote:
    What I would like to know and this may sound really stupid, but just how are they (the governing bodies) measuring the distance? I mean, just how precise is the measurement...are they measuring from the start of the property of the school like say the curb in front of the school and then measuring away down the street to say the next stop light? Or does the measurements start where the posted signs "School Zone" are and then measure from there?
    The Penal Code says "within 1,000 feet of school property" that means exactly 1,000 feet from school property in a straight line. They start at the edge of school property and measure in an exact straight line in all directions from the school, 1,000 feet.

    The "School Zone" sign doesn't mean a thing as far as the Penal Code goes.



    giaking70 wrote:
    I know this is really a stupid question but I haven't seen anything that really clarifies where the actual measurements start in order to get an accurate measurement of 1000'.The Walmart where I happen to go is on the other side of the freeway where a school is, but its the back of a school and there are a couple of businesses in between the back of the school and the freeway itself than the Walmart.
    It there is a 500 foot tall wall topped with broken glass and razor wire, and you have to travel 10 miles to get around the wall, if the school is on the other side of the wall, and you are within 1,000 feet of the property of the K-12 school, and you are carrying a gun, and you aren't on private property,you have commited a Felony.

    giaking70 wrote:





    As for measuring how far away Walmart would be from this school by lets just say driving or walking. Lets say we are leaving this school, you would pull out, turn right and go down towards a stoplight. On that corner are several businesses as the actual school zone had ended already before even coming up upon the businesses. You would turn right and go down the street, again passing the rear of these businesses and then driving next to a Saturn Dealership. Once you pass that, you pass a condo complex and then you pass under the freeway overpasses and then pass over a flood canal, then coming to a stoplight where the Walmart sits on the opposite corner.

    Now I know this is well over a 1000' but again, this is where my question is trying to be asked. Are they measuring from curbside next to the school property or posted signs, then down the road and around corners and what have you. Or are they gonna be really anal and say "We measured from the rear of the property, over rooftops, through fences and through freeways, and then through flood canals and then a road and then a Walmart parking lot just to measure how far away you really were".

    I really hope this makes sense as I know I have probably confused the masses but I haven't really seen this addressed before and it really doesn't specifically say in the Penal Code where they start the "actual" measurement other then it just says school zones. Am I correct just to say it starts at the posted signs? Please enlighten me on this subject...thanks.

    As stated before, it doesn't matter how many twists or turns or side roads you have to take to get there, if you are within 1,000 feet of the school property (straight line) any you are carrying a gun, it is a Felony.

    One thing to take into consideration if you are in a Mall. You are on Private Property. As long as you are on Private Property, you are exempt from the 1,000 foot rule.

    I will however caution you about applying the private property rule to the parking lots. This is a grey area as although it is technically "private property" it is public access and in this regard could be considered the same as being onpublic property.



  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Orange County, California, USA
    Posts
    67

    Post imported post

    I was trying to find out how they measured their distances but was unable to find any, yet. i did come across this though:

    626.95. (a) Any person who is in violation of paragraph (2) of
    subdivision (a), or subdivision (b), of Section 417 , or Section
    12025 or 12031, upon the grounds of or within a playground, or a
    public or private youth center during hours in which the facility is
    open for business, classes, or school-related programs, or at any
    time when minors are using the facility, knowing that he or she is on
    or within those grounds, shall be punished by imprisonment in the
    state prison for one, two, or three years, or in a county jail not
    exceeding one year.
    (b) State and local authorities are encouraged to cause signs to
    be posted around playgrounds and youth centers giving warning of
    prohibition of the possession of firearms upon the grounds of or
    within playgrounds or youth centers.
    (c) For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall
    apply:
    (1) "Playground" means any park or recreational area specifically
    designed to be used by children that has play equipment installed,
    including public grounds designed for athletic activities such as
    baseball, football, soccer, or basketball, or any similar facility
    located on public or private school grounds, or on city or county
    parks.
    (2) "Youth center" means any public or private facility that is
    used to host recreational or social activities for minors while
    minors are present.






  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Orange County, California, USA
    Posts
    67

    Post imported post

    I found it! its under 626. (a) As used in this chapter, the following definitions apply:



    (2) "Safe school zone" means an area that encompasses any of the
    following places during regular school hours or within 60 minutes
    before or after the schoolday or 60 minutes before or after a
    school-sponsored activity at the schoolsite:


    (A) Within 100 feet of a bus stop, whether or not a public transit
    bus stop, that has been publicly designated by the school district
    as a schoolbus stop. This definition applies only if the school
    district has chosen to mark the bus stop as a schoolbus stop.


    (B) Within 1,000 feet of a school, as designated by the school
    district.


  8. #8
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stanislaus County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,586

    Post imported post

    I'm glad to see more people honing their research skills and coming at the topic from new angles. Kudos for the hard work (I've done enough to know it makes your brain hurt sometimes!).

    Don't confuse a "safe school zone" with a "school zone." If the legislature intended the definition in 626 to apply to 626.9, it would say so. 626.9 provides it's own definition for a "school zone" so that is the one the courts would be obliged to apply.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rosamond, California, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    Mykal wrote:
    I found it! its under 626. (a) As used in this chapter, the following definitions apply:



    (2) "Safe school zone" means an area that encompasses any of the
    following places during regular school hours or within 60 minutes
    before or after the schoolday or 60 minutes before or after a
    school-sponsored activity at the schoolsite:


    (A) Within 100 feet of a bus stop, whether or not a public transit
    bus stop, that has been publicly designated by the school district
    as a schoolbus stop. This definition applies only if the school
    district has chosen to mark the bus stop as a schoolbus stop.


    (B) Within 1,500 feet of a school, as designated by the school
    district.


    It defines it quite clearly in 626.9

    (e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
    (1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

    within a distance of 1,000 feet from "the grounds of the public or private school"

    grounds = the actual school property

    1,000 feet = 12,000 inches = 1,000 feet. That is measured straightline from point A (school grounds) to point B (where you are standing)

    DO NOT take the meaning of 626 above to mean that the 1,000 foot school zone defined in 626.9 only means during school hours +/- 1 hour.

    It does NOT.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Orange County, California, USA
    Posts
    67

    Post imported post

    Thank you for clarifying that Lib. I wasnt aware the individual definitions applied to that subsection only. What i quoted and linked are in the very begining thus i thought it applied to all 626 codes and sub sections

  11. #11
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rosamond, California, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    Mykal wrote:
    I was trying to find out how they measured their distances but was unable to find any, yet. i did come across this though:

    626.95. (a) Any person who is in violation of paragraph (2) of
    subdivision (a), or subdivision (b), of Section 417 , or Section
    12025 or 12031, upon the grounds of or within a playground, or a
    public or private youth center during hours in which the facility is
    open for business, classes, or school-related programs, or at any
    time when minors are using the facility, knowing that he or she is on
    or within those grounds, shall be punished by imprisonment in the
    state prison for one, two, or three years, or in a county jail not
    exceeding one year.
    (b) State and local authorities are encouraged to cause signs to
    be posted around playgrounds and youth centers giving warning of
    prohibition of the possession of firearms upon the grounds of or
    within playgrounds or youth centers.
    (c) For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall
    apply:
    (1) "Playground" means any park or recreational area specifically
    designed to be used by children that has play equipment installed,
    including public grounds designed for athletic activities such as
    baseball, football, soccer, or basketball, or any similar facility
    located on public or private school grounds, or on city or county
    parks.
    (2) "Youth center" means any public or private facility that is
    used to host recreational or social activities for minors while
    minors are present.
    This means that if youbrandish a firearm (PC 417), carry a concealed firearm (PC 12025), or carry a loaded firearm (PC 12031) upon the grounds of or within a playground, or a public or private youth center during hours in which the facility is open for business, classes, or school-related programs, or at any time when minors are using the facility, knowing that he or she is on or within those grounds, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for one, two, or three years, or in a county jail not exceeding one year.

    Doesn't mean you can't peacefully Unloaded Open Carry in those areas.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Orange County, California, USA
    Posts
    67

    Post imported post

    Decoligny wrote:


    It defines it quite clearly in 626.9

    (e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
    (1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

    within a distance of 1,000 feet from "the grounds of the public or private school"

    grounds = the actual school property

    1,000 feet = 12,000 inches = 1,000 feet. That is measured straightline from point A (school grounds) to point B (where you are standing)

    DO NOT take the meaning of 626 above to mean that the 1,000 foot school zone defined in 626.9 only means during school hours +/- 1 hour.

    It does NOT.
    I am sorry for my hasty readings and posts. I wasnt aware how every word counts. school zone vs safe school zone.


  13. #13
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rosamond, California, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    Keep posting.

    Any assumptions you make should be run through the wringer and either kept or dispelled based upon what the Penal Code actually says.

    We have all been through the process of having our understanding of the California law tried by fire, but luckily it has been tried by friendly fire here on the forum.

    There have been those who have not been so lucky and were tried by hostile fire out on the streets,having an LEO say "That's not what the law says!", and then ending up in court, or worse prison.



  14. #14
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,748

    Post imported post

    Anybody know when 626.9 was changed? It used to read K-12 inclusive, and now it breaks Kingergarten into it's own and lists 1-12 inclusive. I'm wondering what other changes were made to it.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA, ,
    Posts
    105

    Post imported post

    thanks for the input guys, like I said, I wasn't trying to confuse anyone or anybody. I honestly just did not know how they were measuring 1000' and from at what point they would start the measurement. I was reading it as possibly being the posted signs as the Penal Code was saying "...near or in the area of school grounds....." to that extent. Omg my eyes are getting heavy and my fingers are getting lazy....

    thanks.....

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •