OC without CPL on a bicycle legal, Maybe not????

Yeah I know that much. But the class is free.

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I'm just curious here. You're not going to stop questioning things like this and fighting for our actual rights are you? You stated that this topic doesn't matter much anymore to you.

BTW, congrats on the class.. At least it'll save some money.

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SQLtables wrote:

I'm just curious here. You're not going to stop questioning things like this and fighting for our actual rights are you? You stated that this topic doesn't matter much anymore to you.

BTW, congrats on the class.. At least it'll save some money.

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Not a chance I'll quit being upset by the CPL requirements. As a matter of fact, I don't even plan to carry any ID when I won't need to.

I think Randy Weaver said it best when he said that "some people would go down to city hall and get walking permits if they were told to."

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Venator wrote:

I'm not saying OC is or is not allowed on a bicycle I just putting this out there as a cautionary tale.  An arrest could be made for it and it could go to trial.   All depends on the PD and their prosecutors.

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Turns out it doesn't really matter, because my brother just told me that me has made a business agreement with a CPL instructor, and he will be giving us each a free CPL class in exchange for some services. As much as I hate the concept of CPL's, it's hard to turn down free. :lol:

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Add to that the fact that when a bicycle is ridden on the road it is subject to all the same traffic rules and laws as any other vehicle and is afforded the same status by LEO. As I understand it a bike rider can be ticketed for failing to stop at a stop sign, failing to signal a turn, etc.

Venator correct me if I'm wrong but you're saying that regardless ofhow other lawsdefine human-powered conveyences if the specific law regarding carrying a pistol in a vehicle doesn't define it then a dictionary definition is used. And if a dictionary definition is usedone can definitelybe found that says a bicycle is a vehicle.

So we can cite any laws we want that define a bicycle any number of ways and those definitions have no bearing on how a bicycle would be defined in another law?

:banghead:

Bronson

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Anybody know if there's a standard dictionary the courts use? I hope so...

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SQLtables wrote:

Anybody know if there's a standard dictionary the courts use? I hope so...

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In some of the appeals courts they use a couple different ones to be fair.

Link to Mich. Supreme Court decisions. http://coa.courts.mi.gov/resources/opinions.htm

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I don't think they look in the dictionary to find a meaning that will help the defendant, I think they try to find one that will more than likely help the prosecution.

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DrTodd wrote:

I don't think they look in the dictionary to find a meaning that will help the defendant, I think they try to find one that will more than likely help the prosecution.

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That is true it's even stated that the Court of appeals and higher gives the benefit of doubt to the prosecution, no secret there.

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I have recently sent this question to the Michigan State Police for their opinion. I will post the return email that I get from them as soon as i receive it.

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Bronson wrote:

Add to that the fact that when a bicycle is ridden on the road it is subject to all the same traffic rules and laws as any other vehicle and is afforded the same status by LEO. As I understand it a bike rider can be ticketed for failing to stop at a stop sign, failing to signal a turn, etc.

Venator correct me if I'm wrong but you're saying that regardless ofhow other lawsdefine human-powered conveyences if the specific law regarding carrying a pistol in a vehicle doesn't define it then a dictionary definition is used. And if a dictionary definition is usedone can definitelybe found that says a bicycle is a vehicle.

So we can cite any laws we want that define a bicycle any number of ways and those definitions have no bearing on how a bicycle would be defined in another law?

:banghead:

Bronson

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I think you have it right. A vehicle can be define in one statute as (A) and in another statute as (B). If there is no definition in the statute the court goes to the dictionary to find the most common and reasonable meaning. This is true of all words used in a law.

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Venator wrote:

dougwg wrote:

"other than a pistol"

In other words a long gun.

Pistols are ok.


Thats how I read it anyway.....IANAL

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I talked with My local Chief and he said that "other than a pistol" is there to direct you to the individual law concerning pistols. Which is covered below. So that's covered, what is not so clear is what is a vehicle? My Chief feels that a bicycle may be considered a vehicle. We are both looking further into the definitions of both.

Hopefully I will get some further clarification and cite something useful.

Code:

750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.

Code:

Sec. 227.

Code:

(1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business or on other land possessed by the person.

Code:

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

Code:

(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or by a fine of not more than $2,500.00.

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The MCL definitely says "IN" a vehicle. One cannot be in a bicycle. One can store something inside a bicycle's compartments, however.

I say ask a lawyer. But if it were me, I'd say openly carrying while riding a bicycle is not violating the law, as the gun is not inside the vehicle.

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