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Thread: Is your permit necessary?

  1. #1
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    Ok so I sometimes forget my wallet at the house. I havent made it a habit to always swap it from my old pants to my new ones. So I sometimes leave the house without my permit but with my gun strapped to me.

    So... Is it legal to carry my pistol on my person concealed or not WITHOUT my permit physically on my person even though I have one issued to me.



    Worse part is I have a laminated copy, so I could leave one in the car (for where OC is illegal without it) and be legal in and out ofthe carif I had the one but not my wallet, I just keep forgetting to take my copy out of my wallet argh!

  2. #2
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    Technically, the law requires you to be "licensed", but the physical card is proof of that. I have a couple of copies made for each vehicle and a bag I carry often.

    There's no reason for you not to be arrested if you can't present a license when required to.

  3. #3
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    This is what the law states:


    18 Pa. C.S. §6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.



    (a) Offense defined.­



    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.



    (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.


    Doesn't look like it physically has to be on your person when carrying concealed, but the fact that you don't have one on your person might not stop a police officer from arresting you until it can be confirmed that you do have one.



    On the other hand, you might start learning to transfer your wallet (and LTCF) from your old (dirty) pants to your new (clean) pants. One or two trips through a washing machine might serve as an incentive.

  4. #4
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    Here is the relevant code:

    § 6122. Proof of license and exception.

    1. General rule. -- When carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle, an individual licensed to carry a firearm shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce the license for inspection. Failure to produce such license either at the time of arrest or at the preliminary hearing shall create a rebuttable presumption of nonlicensure.

    2. Exception. -- An individual carrying a firearm on or about his person or in a vehicle and claiming an exception under section 6106(b) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce satisfactory evidence of qualification for exception.
    What the statute is saying is that to be convicted you have to fail to produce license at scene or at preliminary hearing.

    So if you are *caught* without your LTCF on you when carrying in a manner that requires the LTCF by law, you should expect to be cited/arrested. Producing the LTCF at or before the preliminary hearing should dismiss the charges.



  5. #5
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    Statkowski wrote:
    This is what the law states:


    18 Pa. C.S. §6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.



    (a) Offense defined.*



    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.



    (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.


    Doesn't look like it physically has to be on your person when carrying concealed, but the fact that you don't have one on your person might not stop a police officer from arresting you until it can be confirmed that you do have one.



    On the other hand, you might start learning to transfer your wallet (and LTCF) from your old (dirty) pants to your new (clean) pants. One or two trips through a washing machine might serve as an incentive.
    Hell, I've ended up sitting in handcuffs even when the officer had my LTCF in his hands because he refused to believe I wasn't breaking some law, somehow.

  6. #6
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    Aran wrote:
    Hell, I've ended up sitting in handcuffs even when the officer had my LTCF in his hands because he refused to believe I wasn't breaking some law, somehow.
    Really? Been there! Not very fun is it? They got to take me back out of the cruiser, I was so nervous and was hit with so much anxiety I told the Trooper I was going to throw up in his back seat. I didnt feel better until they chained be to a bench at the barracks actually. Thank god it all ended well!

    Did they get down and say they were sorry?

  7. #7
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    YllwFvr wrote:
    Aran wrote:
    Hell, I've ended up sitting in handcuffs even when the officer had my LTCF in his hands because he refused to believe I wasn't breaking some law, somehow.
    Really? Been there! Not very fun is it? They got to take me back out of the cruiser, I was so nervous and was hit with so much anxiety I told the Trooper I was going to throw up in his back seat. I didnt feel better until they chained be to a bench at the barracks actually. Thank god it all ended well!

    Did they get down and say they were sorry?
    I got to sit in a Wal-Mart manager's office for a half hour, bullshitting with a nice younger manager who didn't know wtf was going on because nobody told him anything other than "regular customer with gun is in handcuffs, come sit with him in the office."

    It was kind of funny, really. The loss prevention guy went all Rambo, stalking me through the store from a few aisles over and then went and grabbed the state trooper when I stopped in the aisle I was headed for. The state trooper came in, immediately barking orders at me to put my hands on the shelf, don't move, etc., and immediately cuffed me, the LP guy took my Glock out of my holster and unloaded it, handed it to the trooper (urgh.) and started swearing at me and telling me to go back to Texas for that ****, etc.

    Even after the trooper had my LTCF IN HIS ******* HAND he still treated me like I was there to rape some babies.

    The only apology I got was from the 2-3 WalMart managers I've talked to about it since then, who all agree that that loss prevention guy is a ****** (Actual quote from one of them, too!) with a chip on his shoulder.

    Hell, I've run into other state troopers that the first one had told the story to and have laughed and said "Oh you're THAT guy"


    (I ramble, if you can't tell, by the way.)

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