Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 177

Thread: Do you carry your 1911 in "condition 0?"

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    I recently purchased my first 1911. I'm curious, do many of you carry in "condition 0" (with the thumb safety off), or do the majority of you have the thumb safety applied?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    $
    Posts
    187

    Post imported post

    Yup, I carry in condition 0.

  3. #3
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    The only safe condition to carry a 1911 is in condition one. With the hammer on the chamber, you risk a ND. The safety is there for a reason.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Taco-Ma, Washington, USA
    Posts
    309

    Post imported post

    I carry mine with a full magazine, one in the tube and the hammer down. visually, when someone see it that way, it doesn't set off the "he has a gun!" alarm as much as carrying with the hammer back (this has been my experience) also, for those of you who think that will take excessive time to pull the hammer back, it takes no more time than releasing the "safety", especially when using a military hammer like I do. (I clearanced the beavertail safety to accommodate the military hammer, and it works perfectly, especially when I lower the hammer by hand).
    When the **** hits the fan, ask yourself: What Would Bugly Do?

  5. #5
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849

    Post imported post

    Condition 0 (zero) is; loaded magazine inserted, round in chamber, hammer at full cock, and safety off. In other words, in full battery and ready for fire. This is NOT the best or most desirable way to carry a single action pistol. This is the way to carry it when a situation is at immediate hand and your have drawn your sidearm pending fire.

    Condition 1 is exactly like Condition 0 with this exception; the safety is engaged. This is the preferred method of carry for a single action pistol.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  6. #6
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Swanzey,NH, ,
    Posts
    218

    Post imported post

    compmanio365 wrote:
    The only safe condition to carry a 1911 is in condition one. With the hammer on the chamber, you risk a ND. The safety is there for a reason.
    Condition One Is: Full mag inserted, One in the chamber, Hammer cocked, Thumb Safety on. That is the way to carry a 1911. If any doubts read the writtings of the Late Col. Jeff Cooper.

    Further any thing you add to this becomes a fine motor skill which when the O.S. happens, will be forgotten, tunnel vision will set in and you will be severely hampered in you defensive skills.

  7. #7
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    The safety on a 1911 will NOT engage when the hammer is down, and there is no safe way to lower the hammer on a loaded chamber; there is no decocker and that's for a reason.

    Carrying a 1911 in condition 0 is asking for a ND; anybody who knows anything about the 1911 will tell you this, and I have no sympathy for someone carrying this way who ends up shooting themselves in the leg.

    Bugly, and others who insist on carrying a 1911 this way, please reevaluate your method of carry before you become another statistic in self inflicted gun injuries.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Columbus, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    154

    Post imported post

    Actually, I wouldn't be too worried about condition 0 on a 1911, most of them do have that grip safety, which to me is no more or less "safe" or "dangerous" than all those glocks with their "safe action" trigger.

    So I really don't know that it's any worse or better to be condition 1 or 0.

    For example, the XD's from springfield don't have an extra thumb safety either, just a grip safety. (ETA: And apparently an integrated trigger safety too -- but like the glocks, I hardly think that counts).

    I would probably personally go for condition 1 from my own personal perspective, but what I do know about 1911s tells me that condition 0 shouldn't be a big deal. Just follow the rule: Keep you finger OFF the trigger.

    Take my input with a grain of salt though...I don't own a 1911 yet, I've just done a lot of reading.

    Anyone with more firsthand experience can feel free to correct me on anything.

    What I do know is that I would never carry my PT92 condition 0 because there is no grip safety. It has a decocker, so I carry hammer down with the safety on with a round in the chamber. But it's a double-action, so draw/click, squeeze, bang.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post


  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    squisher wrote:
    Actually, I wouldn't be too worried about condition 0 on a 1911, most of them do have that grip safety, which to me is no more or less "safe" or "dangerous" than all those glocks with their "safe action" trigger.

    So I really don't know that it's any worse or better to be condition 1 or 0.

    For example, the XD's from springfield don't have an extra thumb safety either, just a grip safety. (ETA:* And apparently an integrated trigger safety too -- but like the glocks, I hardly think that counts).

    I would probably personally go for condition 1 from my own personal perspective, but what I do know about 1911s tells me that condition 0 shouldn't be a big deal.* Just follow the rule:* Keep you finger OFF the trigger.

    Take my input with a grain of salt though...I don't own a 1911 yet, I've just done a lot of reading.

    Anyone with more firsthand experience can feel free to correct me on anything.

    What I do know is that I would never carry my PT92 condition 0 because there is no grip safety.* It has a decocker, so I carry hammer down with the safety on with a round in the chamber.* But it's a double-action, so draw/click, squeeze, bang.
    That's what I was thinking. I own a Glock, and I don't really see a difference in carrying a Glock with a round chambered than carrying a 1911 in condition 0. You just have that trigger safety on the Glock, and you have the grip safety on the 1911. But anyways, I have been carrying my 1911 in condition 1.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Taco-Ma, Washington, USA
    Posts
    309

    Post imported post

    compmanio365 wrote:
    The safety on a 1911 will NOT engage when the hammer is down, and there is no safe way to lower the hammer on a loaded chamber; there is no decocker and that's for a reason.

    Carrying a 1911 in condition 0 is asking for a ND; anybody who knows anything about the 1911 will tell you this, and I have no sympathy for someone carrying this way who ends up shooting themselves in the leg.

    Bugly, and others who insist on carrying a 1911 this way, please reevaluate your method of carry before you become another statistic in self inflicted gun injuries.
    I don't carry with the hammer cocked, it is CAREFULLY lowered, I practiced this for a long time before ever chambering a round.

    personally, I never trust a mechanical "safety" of any kind, ALL mechanical devices can, and do fail...(I am an auto mechanic, I see mechanical failures on a daily basis)sometimes with disastrous results. I prefer my hammer in a non-energized condition. For those who believe that striking the back of the hammer can make it go off, I challenge you to try it.
    When the **** hits the fan, ask yourself: What Would Bugly Do?

  12. #12
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The 'Dena, Mаяуlaпd
    Posts
    2,147

    Post imported post

    Condition ZERO for me. No less safe than any striker fired gun. Series 80 type safety without the thumb safety engaged is still safer than most striker fired guns.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  13. #13
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    Actually, round in the chamber, hammer down is condition 2. Condition 0 would be round in chamber, hammer cocked, safety off. Both are foolish.

    http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm




    The Conditions of Readiness:

    The legendary guru of the combat 1911, Jeff Cooper, came up with the "Condition" system to define the state of readiness of the 1911-pattern pistol. The are:

    Condition 0 -
    A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.

    Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked", means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.

    Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

    Condition 3
    - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.

    Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

    The mode of readiness preferred by the experts is Condition One. Generally speaking, Condition One offers the best balance of readiness and safety. Its biggest drawback is that it looks scary to people who don't understand the operation and safety features of the pistol.

    Condition Two is problematic for several reasons, and is the source of more negligent discharges than the other conditions. When you rack the slide to chamber a round in the 1911, the hammer is cocked and the manual safety is off. There is no way to avoid this with the 1911 design. In order to lower the hammer, the trigger must be pulled and the hammer lowered slowly with the thumb onto the firing pin, the end of which is only a few millimeters away from the primer of a live round. Should the thumb slip, the hammer would drop and fire the gun. Not only would a round be launched in circumstances which would be at best embarrassing and possibly tragic, but also the thumb would be behind the slide as it cycled, resulting in serious injury to the hand. A second problem with this condition is that the true 1911A1 does not have a firing pin block and an impact on the hammer which is resting on the firing pin could conceivably cause the gun to go off, although actual instances of this are virtually nonexistent. Finally, in order to fire the gun, the hammer must be manually cocked, again with the thumb. In an emergency situation, this adds another opportunity for something to go wrong and slows the acquisition of the sight picture.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lake Charles Area, Louisiana, USA
    Posts
    1,723

    Post imported post

    bugly wrote:
    compmanio365 wrote:
    The safety on a 1911 will NOT engage when the hammer is down, and there is no safe way to lower the hammer on a loaded chamber; there is no decocker and that's for a reason.

    Carrying a 1911 in condition 0 is asking for a ND; anybody who knows anything about the 1911 will tell you this, and I have no sympathy for someone carrying this way who ends up shooting themselves in the leg.

    Bugly, and others who insist on carrying a 1911 this way, please reevaluate your method of carry before you become another statistic in self inflicted gun injuries.
    I don't carry with the hammer cocked, it is CAREFULLY lowered, I practiced this for a long time before ever chambering a round.

    personally, I never trust a mechanical "safety" of any kind, ALL mechanical devices can, and do fail...(I am an auto mechanic, I see mechanical failures on a daily basis)sometimes with disastrous results. I prefer my hammer in a non-energized condition. For those who believe that striking the back of the hammer can make it go off, I challenge you to try it.
    And so do humans. Trusting your thumb has NO Guarantee's either. A simple slip, and BANG !!!

    Source - http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm




    Condition 1 is indeed the most optimum condition for self-defense.

    Condition 3 is the safest.

    Condition 0, - No idea why someone would carry in this condition. This should be a shoot only condition.
    If the safety is there, why aren't you using it ?





  15. #15
    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    712

    Post imported post

    I carry Condition 1.

    IMO there is no other way to carry a 1911.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830

    Post imported post

    I don't see a problem with condition 3. I carry my Sig in that manner most of the time. I only carry with a round in the chamber when I'm somewhere I consider abnormally dangerous.

    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487

    Post imported post

    bugly wrote:
    I carry mine with a full magazine, one in the tube and the hammer down. visually, when someone see it that way, it doesn't set off the "he has a gun!" alarm as much as carrying with the hammer back (this has been my experience) also, for those of you who think that will take excessive time to pull the hammer back, it takes no more time than releasing the "safety", especially when using a military hammer like I do. (I clearanced the beavertail safety to accommodate the military hammer, and it works perfectly, especially when I lower the hammer by hand).
    It's not an issue of how long it takes to thumb the hammer back. Condition 2 simply isn't safe: testing has shown the only way a 1911 will ever go off when dropped is if the sear breaks or if it is in Condition 2.

    bugly wrote:
    personally, I never trust a mechanical "safety" of any kind, ALL mechanical devices can, and do fail...(I am an auto mechanic, I see mechanical failures on a daily basis)sometimes with disastrous results. I prefer my hammer in a non-energized condition. For those who believe that striking the back of the hammer can make it go off, I challenge you to try it.
    Bad advice. You don't trust the safety, so you forgo it and carry in the only dangerous mode a 1911 can be in?

    "Not relying" on safety devices is not the same as "not using" them. As a car mechanic you should know this. :quirky

    BTW, as it happens a 1911 is not a car, and properly installed thumb safeties on 1911s don't fail. :P As a mechanic you should have no trouble examining the 1911 safety mechanism and realizing that it's a sound design, and nearly puts to lie "all safeties fail".

    I'm not suggesting users rely on safeties, but not availing yourself of one of the most rock-solid and reliable safety designs I have ever witnessed because of some excessively repeated platitude ("never trust a safety!") is just downright counterproductive, and missing the point to boot.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    If I decide to carry my 1911 I start out in condition 1. However, after getting in and out of my vehicle, moving around, bending over, etc. the manual safety usually gets moved to the off position. I'm not concerned at all about this due to the additional safety features, such as, the grip safety and trigger. Of course, the best safety feature is the one between your ears.

    With the manual safety off two things must happen in order for the 1911 to go BANG.1) is that the grip safety must be depressed and, 2) the trigger must be depressed as well. If you are able to depress the trigger without disengaging the grip safety then you should not be carrying the gun until the problem has been resolved.

    I fail to understand thedifferences with carrying a 1911 in condition 0and carrying my Glock with one in the pipe.


  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    The main difference between the 1911 and the Glock that keeps getting referred to is that the Glock is not a single action pistol. The glock system has 3 internal safeties and the firing pin is blocked and only half cocked until you pull the trigger. The trigger movement on the glock takes it from safe to fire while the 1911 is ready to go at all times the hammer is back. I trained at Gunsite with the late Jeff Cooper a few years back and from that training will only carry condition 1. It takes no thought or fine motor movements to sweep the safety on a 1911 during the proper draw stroke. The time I see it could be an issue carrying condition 0 is then moving/drawing the pistol the grip safety would be dissengaged and anything that touches my trigger with 3.5# of pressure would light it off.

  20. #20
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849

    Post imported post

    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    If I decide to carry my 1911 I start out in condition 1. However, after getting in and out of my vehicle, moving around, bending over, etc. the manual safety usually gets moved to the off position. I'm not concerned at all about this due to the additional safety features, such as, the grip safety and trigger. Of course, the best safety feature is the one between your ears.

    With the manual safety off two things must happen in order for the 1911 to go BANG.1) is that the grip safety must be depressed and, 2) the trigger must be depressed as well. If you are able to depress the trigger without disengaging the grip safety then you should not be carrying the gun until the problem has been resolved.

    I fail to understand thedifferences with carrying a 1911 in condition 0and carrying my Glock with one in the pipe.
    The 1911 has a completely differently designed trigger that the Glock. Plus one is a single action and the other is a DAO (Double Action Only). Most 1911's I would bet have a lighter trigger than most Glocks and there is nothing at all common about their feel and especially their travel (Glock has 1/2' travel).


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    125

    Post imported post

    When I carry my 1911A1, I carry in Condition 2, I feel quite comfortable to carry this was as i trained to drag my thumb over the hammer as I bring the pistol to the firing position.

    15 years, no accidental discharges.

    I am not saying the way you carry is right of wrong, you need to carry it the way you have trained for, and are most comfortable with.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    396

    Post imported post

    I've been around guns and gun people all my long life and I'm an unreconstructed 1911 fan.

    Having said that, I have never known anyone to carry one in this "Condition 0" and in fact never heard it referred to. It seems to me foolish in the extreme.

    Would anyone carry a revolver, single- or double-action, in this condition?

    I can imagine Gunny Welles' reaction!

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    South end of the state, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    314

    Post imported post

    I have carried the 1911 off and on for many years( since mid 1970's ) . Colt combat commander , ColtGold cup , and now a Kimber tactical ultra II . I have carried via shoulder holster , belt holster ,and IWB .

    I have always carried cocked and locked and I have NEVER had the safety come off. I have carried while hunting , walking through brush , jumping ditches , crawling over fallen trees , etc.....

    For those who carry with the hammer down on a loaded chamber ,all I can say is try that at a training range like Gun site , Sigarms , or even Front site . No matter what you say ,thumbing the hammer on a 1911 as you draw is unsafe . While safeties have been known to fail , as long as the trigger is covered by the holster and you keep your finger off the trigger , the gun won't go BANG!

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Southern, Mississippi, USA
    Posts
    266

    Post imported post

    I am new to carrying a 1911, but common sense told me to carry in condition 1.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    392

    Post imported post

    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    If I decide to carry my 1911 I start out in condition 1. However, after getting in and out of my vehicle, moving around, bending over, etc. the manual safety usually gets moved to the off position. I'm not concerned at all about this due to the additional safety features, such as, the grip safety and trigger. Of course, the best safety feature is the one between your ears.

    With the manual safety off two things must happen in order for the 1911 to go BANG.1) is that the grip safety must be depressed and, 2) the trigger must be depressed as well. If you are able to depress the trigger without disengaging the grip safety then you should not be carrying the gun until the problem has been resolved.

    I fail to understand thedifferences with carrying a 1911 in condition 0and carrying my Glock with one in the pipe.
    Yes you are right... it is VERY much like carrying a Glock.

    However that also begs the question about carrying a Glock and assuming it is safe to do so;

    - It is important to consider that there is no such thing as a mechanism inside the trigger guard being a safety, as the issue of what a safety is involves something to preclude or prevent a discharge if the trigger is inadvertantly rendered moot or engaged somehow in error. (i.e. Your coat tail inside your holster, or even just a very small twig can actuate the trigger, so a trigger mounted safety is not a safety.)

    ** Or put another way, you cannot have the trigger made inoperable by using the trigger to do so.

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •