Open Carry 2nd Experience

bad_ace · Mar 9, 2009

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I open carry in Santa Clara county ( no LEO encounters yet ). I'd love to listen to the audio. (PM me)

I have a lot of experience interacting with LEO from growing up in Tucson. The only way I learned was just repeated exposure. Over time I learned my rights and slowly worked on keeping my cool and not allowing them to get me worked up, and in turn controlling the tempo of the situation.

Reviewing other's encounters helps me prepare for the questioning and language LEOs use.

Nice to see you not comply with all of the officer's questioning, when the pressures on I know it's tough

CA_Libertarian · Mar 9, 2009

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Mykal wrote:

My only issue i had was being detained just because i 'knew' Indy, and he used that as an excuse to ID me. Other than that Officer Peter said the reason they were doing a serial number check was because "if it was stolen we would want to return it to it's rightful owner, if your gun was stolen wouldnt you want it returned to you?".

I would be tempted to ask, "What facts can you articulate that would lead a reasonable person to believe the property is stolen? In Terry v Ohio, the court states that you can't seize my person or property unless you have reason to believe a crime has/will be committed."

CA_Libertarian · Mar 9, 2009

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Sent an e-mail to Carrow's corporate complaint department with the subject "Here's your chance to earn back my business."

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To Whom It May Concern:

It has come to my attention that the staff of your restaurant in Cerritos, CA recently called police on a law-abiding customer resulting in his being detained for an hour. The customer was also told that he was never allowed to return - I can only assume the cops were following the manager's request. The staff of the restuarant apparently didn't like the fact that the patron was lawfully carry an exposed firearm. The firearm remained holstered (until police took it for inspection), and no laws were broken.

The actions of the police department are not the legal liability of Carrows, and those actions will be answered for if/when a federl lawsuit is filed. However, I feel that Carrows is ethically liable for instigating the police contact. California is currently in an educational/transitional state where law enforcement, as well as private citizens and companies, are learning to accept the lawful carry of firearms that is taken for granted in the vast majority of the nation.

I am very disappointed that this happened. I hope it was the rogue actions of the local staff, and not due to corporate policy. It is enfuriating to hear of a law-abiding citizen being harassed at the whim of the business they are patronizing. I am sure central management will be equally dismayed to hear what happened, and I hope corrective action will be taken.

As a civil rights activist, and California "state researcher" for OpenCarry.org, I must set an example by boycotting your business until I have satisfactory assurance that this will not happen again. At that time, I will gladly encourage my fellow activists to give you their patronage. In order to be satisfied, I ask that you answer the following questions:

Is it the policy of Carrows to discriminate against persons exercising their second amendment right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of self defense?
What actions does Carrows intend to take in order to prevent further discrimination against its patrons?
We often have 'meetups' where we socialize and discuss current events. Would Carrows discriminate against a large group wishing to enjoy Carrows food while discussing and engaging in lawful carry of firearms?

Please be aware that this e-mail, and any response you provide, will be shared on a public internet forum located on www.OpenCarry.org. I do not work for the owners of the OpenCarry.org web site, and the views I state here do not necessarily represent them or their views.

I eagerly await your response.

Sincerely,

~David Tapley

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I will post updates here as soon as they reply.

BB62 · Mar 9, 2009

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A FANTASTIC letter!

There are three misspellings and one non-hyphened phrase, however:

restuarant s/b restaurant

federl s/b federal

enfuriating s/b infuriating

self defense s/b self-defense

CA_Libertarian · Mar 9, 2009

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BB62 wrote:

A FANTASTIC letter!

There are three misspellings and one non-hyphened phrase, however:

restuarant s/b restaurant

federl s/b federal

enfuriating s/b infuriating

self defense s/b self-defense

Thanks for pointing that out. I guess my browser's built-in spell-check doesn't work in my e-mail java interface. I'll start using the java spell-check utility...

Window_Seat · Mar 9, 2009

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Mykal wrote:

The one in the car is Offcier Atkins, Left is Escobedo, Right is Peters(i believe).

Indy is in the back

I've got to say that THESE are some GREAT photos that you took!

Erik.

CA_Libertarian · Mar 12, 2009

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Response received 3/12/09 (bold is my emphasis):

Dear Mr. Tapley:

Your e-mail dated March 9, 2009 has been forwarded to me for response.

In response to your questions set forth below, Carrows does not discriminate on the basis of sex, race, color, creed, national origin, religion, age, marital status, pregnancy, physical, mental, medical or sensory disability, sexual orientation, ancestry, citizenship or any other basis or characteristic protected by federal, state or local law.

Carrows welcomes all customers to its restaurants and does not discriminate against persons exercising their second amendment rights.

Carrows would welcome the opportunity to serve you and your group at your next meeting.

Please let me know if you have any questions or if I can be of further assistance.

Best regards,

Rebecca Walsh

Rebecca J. Walsh
Vice President and General Counsel
Catalina Restaurant Group, Inc.
2200 Faraday Avenue, Suite 250
Carlsbad, CA 92008
Telephone: (760) 476-5176
Facsimile: (760) 476-5148
Cell/Blackberry: (760) 889-1141
E-mail Address: rwalsh@cc-cw.com

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And my response:

Ms. Walsh,

Thank you for your response. It is reassuring to hear that the incident in Cerritos was an isolated lack of judgment by the manager. While I will share this good news with the activist community, I would still like to know how this particular incident will be handled.

The manager told the patrons that they were welcome back, but only on condition that they not exercise their second amendment rights. Will this manager be made aware that this decision was not aligned with company policy? Will steps be taken to make sure this incident is not repeated at other Carrows locations? Perhaps a memo issued state-wide would be appropriate. (It certainly would put some of us at ease as activists.)

I look forward to being able to share any further responses with the rest of the activist community.

Kind regards,

~David Tapley

[Edit: corrected date of e-mail... this was not a message sent back from the future... I got it today.]

flintlock tom · Mar 12, 2009

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Wow, as a "Plan B" (plan A would have been no issues) this was executed and responded to almost perfectly.
A perfect response would have been: "Our local manager has been instructed on company policy, a company-wide memo has been circulated and here's a $50 gift card."

Good job.

pullnshoot25 · Mar 12, 2009

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HOLY SHATBALLS! I am so happy I could cry!

Next stop... CARROWS!

BB62 · Mar 12, 2009

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CA_Libertarian wrote:

BB62 wrote:

A FANTASTIC letter!

There are three misspellings and one non-hyphened phrase, however:..

Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing that out. I guess my browser's built-in spell-check doesn't work in my e-mail java interface. I'll start using the java spell-check utility...

You're welcome. I usually look over my stuff before posting it - but yours was a long note.

In the future, you could cut and paste it into Word for spell-check purposes, or d/l the free "Office-like" package OpenOffice and do the same.

Legend_AB · Mar 12, 2009

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I agree with Pullnshoot, I'm goin to Carrows!

4armed Architect · Mar 12, 2009

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Legend_AB wrote:

I agree with Pullnshoot, I'm goin to Carrows!

Be sure to copy the Corporate response from Carrows and "carry" that with you when you go. Please report back to OC.org any experiences you have there.

So far, by their actions, they have proven that one should not visit their establishment. Words are cheap. When they have proven they will abide with lawful carry requirements, I'll consider spending my dwindling $ there.

Thanks all for keeping us posted. Thanks mucho, CA Libertarian for the excellent letter and elicited response.

CA_Libertarian · Mar 13, 2009

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Just to avoid any legal issues, I would call ahead and make sure the manager of the Cerritos Carrows has been advised. Wouldn't want the cops called out again...

For any other Carrows location, I would just go about your regular business. It sounds very much like this is a localized incident, and has nothing to do with Carrows corporate policy.

pullnshoot25 · Mar 13, 2009

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Just called, they know

I never did get to go through the prank call stage of my life....

CA_Libertarian · Mar 13, 2009

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pullnshoot25 wrote:

Just called, they know

Excellent news. Sounds like Carrows corporate is in fact on top of the situation. They're officially off my shit list.

In fact, I feel the need to hold a CenCal OC meetup at Carrows...

ib12025a · Mar 14, 2009

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Sounds like the deputies did a good jobin determining thatyou were not in violation of any laws.

ib12025a · Mar 14, 2009

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Sounds like the deputies did a good job in determining that you were not in violation of any laws.

Mykal wrote:

Our third experience we headed to Carrows in Cerritos. Only Indy was carrying. Long story short (hopefully he will post his soon). He was pulled out of Carrows by three officers, put in the back of the squad car, one of two there; and they took his ID, and checked the serial number on his handgun. While 2 more vehicles pulled up, one being a Sergant.

While he was being detained, i walked outside to make sure they weren't going to drive him down town. This is where OfficerPeters(I beleive, she was the blonde Officer)and Officer Escobedo(Male,black haired Officer) watched me watch Indy.

Officer Peters Kept walking behind me, and reading my texts. I believe she was trying to intimidate me, while i kept an eye on 2 other officers inspecting Indy's firearm. Officer Peters kept trying to get information from me and all i gave her was my 1st name. She tried to have 'small talk' and i wouldnt have any of it.

No i didnt have my recorder on because it was dead, which is why i did not carry. Officer Atkins apporached me and asked for my full name and ID, i asked if i was being detained. He Stated Yes. i had him state it twice for clarification then i procceded to ask why . He state because i was with Indy. I was not aware i could be guilty of nothing for knowing someone. so i gave him my full name and date of birth. I really didnt have my ID. I didnt give him my address and he wanted to know where i worked and i didnt give him either. Then Officer Atkins walks away from me left me without any officers there and i had to shout " am i free to go?" he said yeah yeah with his back turn to me.

I tried to get the conversation recored by calling someones cell but it didnt go through for some reason. oh well.

After the Fiasco, i went back in to talk to the manager, Sandy. She said it was making the customers uncomfortable, so they called the police. He is welcome back just with no firearm. I grabbed her business card and left Cerrritos.

Overall Officer Atkins was being a hardass, Officer Peters try to intimidate me and when that didnt work she tried the buddy-buddy thing, Officer Escobedo, talked little until we talked about CCW and he seemed to be Pro-Gun and understood we could not get a CCW. The Sergant (female, never got her name) never approached me, but she looked pissed. And the other officer looked a little on the overweight side couldnt figure out how to check a single action 22 revolver. It seemed he didnt even know how to operate the camera they took photos of Indy's handgun.

Time spent was about an hour.

Edit: We took the 91 to get there and the 605 to get out.

Carrow's
(562) 865-1316

19011 Bloomfield Ave, Cerritos, CA 90703

pullnshoot25 · Mar 14, 2009

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ib12025a wrote:

Sounds like the deputies did a good jobin determining thatyou were not in violation of any laws.

Are you F*****G insane? They did a horrible job!

You have to be a troll, a cop, or both.

BB62 · Mar 14, 2009

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ib12025a,

Please do not quote the entire text of the post you are referring to. It's a wasteful use of bandwidth and screen space.

Thank you!

oilfieldtrash11 · Mar 14, 2009

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pullnshoot25 wrote:

ib12025a wrote:

Sounds like the deputies did a good jobin determining thatyou were not in violation of any laws.

Click to expand...

Are you F*****G insane? They did a horrible job!

You have to be a troll, a cop, or both.

i wouldnt go that far. i would say ib12025a is just misinformed. ill give him the benefit of the doubt.

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