stevenrm87
New member
imported post
A little cynical I see huh..
A little cynical I see huh..
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Checkpoints on U.S. soil
- Thread starter bnhcomputing
- Start date
KBCraig
Regular Member
imported post
stevenrm87 wrote:
And justifiably so.
stevenrm87 wrote:
And justifiably so.
imported post
stevenrm87 wrote:
And some one else wrote about the Border Patrol Checkpoints being for illegals and drugs.
TOTAL LIE!!!
And, I would appreciate it, stevenrm87, since youseem to imply in your post that your a cop, if youNAZI THUG COPS would stop spreading these kinds of LIES to the public to justify your ILLEGAL and IMMORAL NAZI behavior, all the while, you embezzle protection money from the tax-payers to do nothing more than provide protectionto CIA while they run illegal drug and illegal human trafficoperations between Mexico and the United States and eliminate any competition that develops in the black market.
Listen, if a BP officer saw a bloody dead body in the backseat ofcar that pulls up to an, "illegal alien/illegal drugs," checkpoint,would he stopthe driverand question him? Even if the dead body and the driver were both obviouslyUS citizens and there were no signs of drugs? Ifa driverisstopped at a DUI checkpoint, and the passenger said the driver just raped her, would you pull him out of the car? Of course you would. If youobserve a law being broken, you can act on that observation. Your a cop, that's your job. So, stop pretendingthat these CHECKPOINTS are anything other than CHECKPOINTS.They are NOT "DUI" checkpoints, or "illegal alien" checkpoints, or "illegal drug" checkpoints, they areCHECKPOINTS, and they are every bit as evil in Larado, Texas as they were in NAZI GERMANY. Cops stopping people and giving them the once over to determine if those cop believe the people are doing something wrong.It's "guilty until proven innocent" where a refusal to consent to a search means you must be hiding something and therefore showprobable cause for the search you refused, and if you still refuse, they will taser or MURDER you right there on the side of the road. They tased a PREACHER 2 months ago forhis refuseal of theILLEGAL search.
So, if you didn't already know,theBill of Rights is the LAW OF THE LAND even inside the "Constitution Free Zones," within 150 miles of our border. And CHECKPOINTS are ILLEGAL!!!
stevenrm87 wrote:
And some one else wrote about the Border Patrol Checkpoints being for illegals and drugs.
TOTAL LIE!!!
And, I would appreciate it, stevenrm87, since youseem to imply in your post that your a cop, if youNAZI THUG COPS would stop spreading these kinds of LIES to the public to justify your ILLEGAL and IMMORAL NAZI behavior, all the while, you embezzle protection money from the tax-payers to do nothing more than provide protectionto CIA while they run illegal drug and illegal human trafficoperations between Mexico and the United States and eliminate any competition that develops in the black market.
Listen, if a BP officer saw a bloody dead body in the backseat ofcar that pulls up to an, "illegal alien/illegal drugs," checkpoint,would he stopthe driverand question him? Even if the dead body and the driver were both obviouslyUS citizens and there were no signs of drugs? Ifa driverisstopped at a DUI checkpoint, and the passenger said the driver just raped her, would you pull him out of the car? Of course you would. If youobserve a law being broken, you can act on that observation. Your a cop, that's your job. So, stop pretendingthat these CHECKPOINTS are anything other than CHECKPOINTS.They are NOT "DUI" checkpoints, or "illegal alien" checkpoints, or "illegal drug" checkpoints, they areCHECKPOINTS, and they are every bit as evil in Larado, Texas as they were in NAZI GERMANY. Cops stopping people and giving them the once over to determine if those cop believe the people are doing something wrong.It's "guilty until proven innocent" where a refusal to consent to a search means you must be hiding something and therefore showprobable cause for the search you refused, and if you still refuse, they will taser or MURDER you right there on the side of the road. They tased a PREACHER 2 months ago forhis refuseal of theILLEGAL search.
So, if you didn't already know,theBill of Rights is the LAW OF THE LAND even inside the "Constitution Free Zones," within 150 miles of our border. And CHECKPOINTS are ILLEGAL!!!
Bustelo5%
Regular Member
imported post
Check points are crap my family illegaly fled from Italy to america through 5 countries just to get here. If they wanna find an illegal im one.we all are.
If your not a full blooded native american then we all should be deported and rightfully so.If that is ideolgy that this country is beliving in since its not our country.
I refused a search in Kent,OH and the cop proceeded to search my car anyways next time this happens I might actually try to get deported to Italy just to pissoff the next person who decideds that searching Nationals of the us without a warrent is ok.
Wheather your in Compton or Aticca NY you have the right to travel period .
Check points are crap my family illegaly fled from Italy to america through 5 countries just to get here. If they wanna find an illegal im one.we all are.
If your not a full blooded native american then we all should be deported and rightfully so.If that is ideolgy that this country is beliving in since its not our country.
I refused a search in Kent,OH and the cop proceeded to search my car anyways next time this happens I might actually try to get deported to Italy just to pissoff the next person who decideds that searching Nationals of the us without a warrent is ok.
Wheather your in Compton or Aticca NY you have the right to travel period .
imported post
Thanks for the reply.
While I don't condone illegal aliens living and working in this country, I do NOT believe the need to remove you, or any other illegal alien, justifies thesetresspasses against our GOD-GIVEN HUMAN RIGHTS. However, the Border Patrol has no interest in stopping the flood of illegals into our counrty. If they did they would have more cameras up at the border, at known crossing spots, so they could monitor and then apprehend anyone attempting to cross the border. As it is, I have more cameras in my neighborhood, than are on the entire streach of the Mexico/US border. It seems the government is more interested in watching me and my neighbors, than watching the border.
No, the CHECKPOINTS that these CRIMINALS man, are to condition you, the AMERICAN PEOPLE,to being stopped, questioned, having your "papers" examined, your belongings searched, and anything else the THUGS in the federal government want to subject you to, and again, to them, a refusal is "probable cause," and justification to illegally search you, taser you, or outright MURDER you on the side of the road. Just don't be suprised when the MILITARY starts manning these CHECKPOINTS with 50 calibers on their HUMVEE's in full battle fatigues. Former drug dealers, high school drop outs, felons, illegals, and all their little cohorts, armed with M-16's telling your wife and daughter to get out of the car for a quick "search."
That's what these, "CHECKPOINTS," are leading to.
Back to your comment, if you weren't an illegal, I would tell you to file CRIMINAL CHARGES against the people who searched you ILLEGALLY. They commit MULTIPLE CRIMES by searching youin violation ofthe 4th and 5th amendment, even if you are ILLEGAL. When these SCUM violate your GOD GIVEN HUMAN RIGHTS, these SCUM (you are SCUM if you violate someonesRIGHTS using a badge,a gun, and the insistance that you have the authority to do it,to justify your CRIMINAL behavior) deserve some time in PRISON, let alone being fired and sued into oblivion. You don't need an attorney, you just need to understand the law, and the proceedure for filing CRIMINAL CHARGES, yourself. Anyone can do it, and should do it, anytime their RIGHTS are violated by the NAZI SCUM popping up all over the country.
RULE OF LAW RADIO, Randy Kelton, Debrah Stevens, JURISDICTIONARY Dr. Graves
Use STARTPAGE (search engine) and listen to the archives and learn how to get these people where it hurts most. This is the last best hope for our country before these people push us into MARTIAL LAW and announce their POLICE STATE as "official."
Thanks for the reply.
While I don't condone illegal aliens living and working in this country, I do NOT believe the need to remove you, or any other illegal alien, justifies thesetresspasses against our GOD-GIVEN HUMAN RIGHTS. However, the Border Patrol has no interest in stopping the flood of illegals into our counrty. If they did they would have more cameras up at the border, at known crossing spots, so they could monitor and then apprehend anyone attempting to cross the border. As it is, I have more cameras in my neighborhood, than are on the entire streach of the Mexico/US border. It seems the government is more interested in watching me and my neighbors, than watching the border.
No, the CHECKPOINTS that these CRIMINALS man, are to condition you, the AMERICAN PEOPLE,to being stopped, questioned, having your "papers" examined, your belongings searched, and anything else the THUGS in the federal government want to subject you to, and again, to them, a refusal is "probable cause," and justification to illegally search you, taser you, or outright MURDER you on the side of the road. Just don't be suprised when the MILITARY starts manning these CHECKPOINTS with 50 calibers on their HUMVEE's in full battle fatigues. Former drug dealers, high school drop outs, felons, illegals, and all their little cohorts, armed with M-16's telling your wife and daughter to get out of the car for a quick "search."
That's what these, "CHECKPOINTS," are leading to.
Back to your comment, if you weren't an illegal, I would tell you to file CRIMINAL CHARGES against the people who searched you ILLEGALLY. They commit MULTIPLE CRIMES by searching youin violation ofthe 4th and 5th amendment, even if you are ILLEGAL. When these SCUM violate your GOD GIVEN HUMAN RIGHTS, these SCUM (you are SCUM if you violate someonesRIGHTS using a badge,a gun, and the insistance that you have the authority to do it,to justify your CRIMINAL behavior) deserve some time in PRISON, let alone being fired and sued into oblivion. You don't need an attorney, you just need to understand the law, and the proceedure for filing CRIMINAL CHARGES, yourself. Anyone can do it, and should do it, anytime their RIGHTS are violated by the NAZI SCUM popping up all over the country.
RULE OF LAW RADIO, Randy Kelton, Debrah Stevens, JURISDICTIONARY Dr. Graves
Use STARTPAGE (search engine) and listen to the archives and learn how to get these people where it hurts most. This is the last best hope for our country before these people push us into MARTIAL LAW and announce their POLICE STATE as "official."
imported post
My wife and I went through at least 4 BP checkpoints and the one at Hoover Dam while traveling on our honeymoon in June. We were neither asked nor did we volunteer our firearms status. We were asked for ID, if we were american citizens, and if the vehicle we driving was ours.
My wife and I went through at least 4 BP checkpoints and the one at Hoover Dam while traveling on our honeymoon in June. We were neither asked nor did we volunteer our firearms status. We were asked for ID, if we were american citizens, and if the vehicle we driving was ours.
DocNTexas
Regular Member
imported post
FreeinTX wrote:
The checkpoints mentioned in this thread have been in place for decades. They are not new and if their purpose was, as you say, to season up for being stopped and questioned, then this diabolical plan was initiated decades ago andcertainly has not proved to bevery efficient. You would think that they would have expanded the number of checkpoints and includedmore central areas of the country if this were the plan. Other than perhaps the ones on I-10 west of Van Horn, most of themare situated near the border with limited traffic for the common traveler, so, again, very ineffective for the purpose you suggest.
While I agree that the US Border Patrol is very ineffective at their intended purpose, stemming the flow of illegal immigrantsand illegal goods across our borders, I seriously doubt they are there for the purpose you suggest either.
I travel through several of the checkpoints on a regular basis and often I am simply waved through without having to stop. When Iam stopped, I am merely asked about citizenship of those in my vehicle and on occasion where I have been or where I am heading (depending on my direction of travel toward or from the border).
Doc
FreeinTX wrote:
The checkpoints mentioned in this thread have been in place for decades. They are not new and if their purpose was, as you say, to season up for being stopped and questioned, then this diabolical plan was initiated decades ago andcertainly has not proved to bevery efficient. You would think that they would have expanded the number of checkpoints and includedmore central areas of the country if this were the plan. Other than perhaps the ones on I-10 west of Van Horn, most of themare situated near the border with limited traffic for the common traveler, so, again, very ineffective for the purpose you suggest.
While I agree that the US Border Patrol is very ineffective at their intended purpose, stemming the flow of illegal immigrantsand illegal goods across our borders, I seriously doubt they are there for the purpose you suggest either.
I travel through several of the checkpoints on a regular basis and often I am simply waved through without having to stop. When Iam stopped, I am merely asked about citizenship of those in my vehicle and on occasion where I have been or where I am heading (depending on my direction of travel toward or from the border).
Doc
imported post
Doc,
You said,
Some of them have been in place for decades, however, their numbers are ever increasing, at boththeMexican and Canadian border. There's a post just above yoursby a guy named Lame Wolf who says,
As for them being effective. They are certainly ineffective when it comes to stemming the flow of drugs and illegal immigrantsinto our country.These guys areat a stationary"checkpoint" that's all lit up and marked for miles in both directions, which isnot very good for catching anyone but the most RETARDED of criminals. And they don't. The people manning those stations could be responding to the COUNTLESS reports by the Minutemen, of illegal crossings, butcatching criminals isNOT their mission.
They are very effective at accomplishing their mission objectives. You get stopped, asked questions, and you answer them. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! Even if you get stopped and get waived through, you stopped, so mission accomplished! They are TRAINING you to do what they say, when they say to do it. They have NO AUTHORITY to stop people at random and ask you questions, yet they do it, and people comply. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! The common statement being,
The simple, and more direct, truth is,even if you are not doing anything wrong, a run-in with certain cops can cause GRAVE concerns and give you plenty to worry about. There is a "viral" YouTube video of a PREACHER getting tasered at a Arizona BP, "checkpoint," for refusing tolet them ILLEGALLY search his car.If you watch that video, they even FAKED a drug dog alert, and then LIED to the state trooper whoended up tasering, then beating,and then arresting a PREACHER who simply refused a search of his car. He wasn't doing anything wrong, yet, he gets stopped, he invokes his RIGHTS, and ends up getting tasered, beat to the point of needing 23 stitches in his head and face, and arrested on FALSE CHARGES. A PREACHER who simply invoked his rights. That's something to worry about.
When you are stopped at the border patrol, "checkpoints," and you comply, you aregiving upyour GOD-GIVEN HUMAN RIGHTS that are protected by the Bill of RIGHTS, and allowingthe federal government to BREAK THE LAW, violate the CONSTITUTION, and abuse their authority, so that they can catch an illegal alien or a drug dealer who is too stupid, or too small time,to send a scout ahead of him. That is NOT a fair trade. It does NOTHING to protect us. It does NOTHING to serve us. And what it does is teach the fed's that if they come up wit a good enough reason, you will give up the very RIGHTS our forefathers faught and died to get BACK to us from the federal government (the Brits) who took them away the first time, and you p-ss on the honor and the graves of every military man, woman, and even child, who faught and/or dies in our national defense to maintain those RIGHTS!
And on a last note, just because they don't ask you certain questions does NOT mean they are not looking for certain things. Like I said, if they see a bloody, dead body in the passenger seat of your car as they waive you through, they are gonna stop you and ask about the dead body. It does NOT have to be about drugs or illegal immigration, they can stop you and violate your rights for any reason they want. The courts just demand that a "descriptor" be used with the word "checkpoint" or else, according to the courts, it's unconstitutional. The "descriptor" doesn't have to mean anything, it just has to be there.
Drugs are small enough to stash, so that gives them a reason to pull you out of your car and search every nook and kranny or your car, looking for "drugs." Illegal immigration gives them the reason to demand your ID if they suspect your an illegal, or gives them reason to ask you dumb questions to check your ability to speak english. DUI gives them a reason to pull you out of your car, FORCIBLY draw your blood (here in TX), make you preform all sorts of stupid tasks and tests, all subject to cop interpretation, and bully you around. Again, NOT EVEN CLOSE to a fair trade.
Now that they are starting to use the MILITARY, 18 year olds with assaul rifles, at "checkpoints" to fleese our fellow citizens, our women, and our kids, we are only at the very beginning of the kinds of RIGHTS VIOLATIONS we can expect to observe on Youtube postings of dash cams and checkpoint cams released under FOIA requested court orders.
But like Ben Franklin said,
Take care.
Doc,
You said,
Some of them have been in place for decades, however, their numbers are ever increasing, at boththeMexican and Canadian border. There's a post just above yoursby a guy named Lame Wolf who says,
and his experience is becoming more and more prevelant. When you look at the numbers, more "checkpoints," more RIGHTS VIOLATIONS!!!
As for them being effective. They are certainly ineffective when it comes to stemming the flow of drugs and illegal immigrantsinto our country.These guys areat a stationary"checkpoint" that's all lit up and marked for miles in both directions, which isnot very good for catching anyone but the most RETARDED of criminals. And they don't. The people manning those stations could be responding to the COUNTLESS reports by the Minutemen, of illegal crossings, butcatching criminals isNOT their mission.
They are very effective at accomplishing their mission objectives. You get stopped, asked questions, and you answer them. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! Even if you get stopped and get waived through, you stopped, so mission accomplished! They are TRAINING you to do what they say, when they say to do it. They have NO AUTHORITY to stop people at random and ask you questions, yet they do it, and people comply. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! The common statement being,
when the AMERICAN way of thinking, by way of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights,the Declaration of Independance, and the sentiments of our forefathers onBOTH the federalist and anti-federalistsides of the ailsewould be,
The simple, and more direct, truth is,even if you are not doing anything wrong, a run-in with certain cops can cause GRAVE concerns and give you plenty to worry about. There is a "viral" YouTube video of a PREACHER getting tasered at a Arizona BP, "checkpoint," for refusing tolet them ILLEGALLY search his car.If you watch that video, they even FAKED a drug dog alert, and then LIED to the state trooper whoended up tasering, then beating,and then arresting a PREACHER who simply refused a search of his car. He wasn't doing anything wrong, yet, he gets stopped, he invokes his RIGHTS, and ends up getting tasered, beat to the point of needing 23 stitches in his head and face, and arrested on FALSE CHARGES. A PREACHER who simply invoked his rights. That's something to worry about.
When you are stopped at the border patrol, "checkpoints," and you comply, you aregiving upyour GOD-GIVEN HUMAN RIGHTS that are protected by the Bill of RIGHTS, and allowingthe federal government to BREAK THE LAW, violate the CONSTITUTION, and abuse their authority, so that they can catch an illegal alien or a drug dealer who is too stupid, or too small time,to send a scout ahead of him. That is NOT a fair trade. It does NOTHING to protect us. It does NOTHING to serve us. And what it does is teach the fed's that if they come up wit a good enough reason, you will give up the very RIGHTS our forefathers faught and died to get BACK to us from the federal government (the Brits) who took them away the first time, and you p-ss on the honor and the graves of every military man, woman, and even child, who faught and/or dies in our national defense to maintain those RIGHTS!
And on a last note, just because they don't ask you certain questions does NOT mean they are not looking for certain things. Like I said, if they see a bloody, dead body in the passenger seat of your car as they waive you through, they are gonna stop you and ask about the dead body. It does NOT have to be about drugs or illegal immigration, they can stop you and violate your rights for any reason they want. The courts just demand that a "descriptor" be used with the word "checkpoint" or else, according to the courts, it's unconstitutional. The "descriptor" doesn't have to mean anything, it just has to be there.
Drugs are small enough to stash, so that gives them a reason to pull you out of your car and search every nook and kranny or your car, looking for "drugs." Illegal immigration gives them the reason to demand your ID if they suspect your an illegal, or gives them reason to ask you dumb questions to check your ability to speak english. DUI gives them a reason to pull you out of your car, FORCIBLY draw your blood (here in TX), make you preform all sorts of stupid tasks and tests, all subject to cop interpretation, and bully you around. Again, NOT EVEN CLOSE to a fair trade.
Now that they are starting to use the MILITARY, 18 year olds with assaul rifles, at "checkpoints" to fleese our fellow citizens, our women, and our kids, we are only at the very beginning of the kinds of RIGHTS VIOLATIONS we can expect to observe on Youtube postings of dash cams and checkpoint cams released under FOIA requested court orders.
But like Ben Franklin said,
And they will get neither liberty nor safety!!!
Take care.
DocNTexas
Regular Member
imported post
FreeinTX,
First off, you will not find anyone more disillusioned about the effectiveness of the Border Patrol to do their intended role, nor anyone more patriotic in the rights of the individual in this country and the documents our forefathers put in place to direct this countryand protect those within, than I.
I do not agree with the idea that one should never be questioned unless directly implicated ina crime. Do you hold that the Border Patrol should not stop people at the border? If you agree that this is OK, then how far within the border is allowed? The courts have always held that checkpoints can be set up for any purpose, whether it be a drivers license check, DWI check, DOT check or even aBP checkas long as it relies on a fair and impartial system of selecting who is stopped and who is not (i.e. every car, every other car, every tenth car, etc.). What about a road block to find an escaped convict? There is no reason to believe any particular car passing through the area is carrying the escapee, but stopping all is the only way to make sure.
BP checkpoints are looking for a crime, whether it be contraband or illegal immigrants and as stupid as it sounds, they do catch them coming through these points. So, while I totally agree that they must limit their questions and search to a narrow and specific scope, I have no problem as long as they stay within that scope. Now, I will be the first to stand up if they deviate from that narrow scope.
While you are correct that new checkpoints have gone up, mostly along the norther borders, that was a knee-jerk reaction to finding that many of the terrist entered the country through Canada. While ineffective for the most part, they were feell good efforts rather than aimed at the American people.
While you are right that many within the government fear the very reason our forefathers enacted the second amendment, to protect us from our own government takeover, I do not see the Border Patrol playing into that role, yet anyway. Now the FBI and BATF..........questionable, but not the Border Patrol. Heck, the poor Border Patrol Agents are too worried about getting arrested for doing their job these days.
I thing it is sad that so many Americans, especially those in the northeast and west coast, have no clue as to what the 2A was meant for. most think it was to allow for protecting the country from foreign invaders, i.e. to allow for an army when there was not a national army. The truth is, it was to allow the people to keep control of their country from run away government, i.e the ability to take it back by force if need be to prevent a government dictatorship from taking over (I think it is spelled "Democrat" now). Anyway, while I agree that many want more government control in our lives I do not see us to the
, and agree that there are those in government that would like to turn it into a dictatorship (the radicals), I do not think there is an organized effort to "condition" us for a government takeover or roundup.
I stand with you for protecting our rights but we can't totally through out the right to look for wrongdoing. That would be like telling you that you must let the other guy get off the first shot before returning fire in self defense. It is just not functionally practical. There has to be a reasonable allowance.
Just my take on it.
Take care,
Doc
FreeinTX,
First off, you will not find anyone more disillusioned about the effectiveness of the Border Patrol to do their intended role, nor anyone more patriotic in the rights of the individual in this country and the documents our forefathers put in place to direct this countryand protect those within, than I.
I do not agree with the idea that one should never be questioned unless directly implicated ina crime. Do you hold that the Border Patrol should not stop people at the border? If you agree that this is OK, then how far within the border is allowed? The courts have always held that checkpoints can be set up for any purpose, whether it be a drivers license check, DWI check, DOT check or even aBP checkas long as it relies on a fair and impartial system of selecting who is stopped and who is not (i.e. every car, every other car, every tenth car, etc.). What about a road block to find an escaped convict? There is no reason to believe any particular car passing through the area is carrying the escapee, but stopping all is the only way to make sure.
BP checkpoints are looking for a crime, whether it be contraband or illegal immigrants and as stupid as it sounds, they do catch them coming through these points. So, while I totally agree that they must limit their questions and search to a narrow and specific scope, I have no problem as long as they stay within that scope. Now, I will be the first to stand up if they deviate from that narrow scope.
While you are correct that new checkpoints have gone up, mostly along the norther borders, that was a knee-jerk reaction to finding that many of the terrist entered the country through Canada. While ineffective for the most part, they were feell good efforts rather than aimed at the American people.
While you are right that many within the government fear the very reason our forefathers enacted the second amendment, to protect us from our own government takeover, I do not see the Border Patrol playing into that role, yet anyway. Now the FBI and BATF..........questionable, but not the Border Patrol. Heck, the poor Border Patrol Agents are too worried about getting arrested for doing their job these days.
I thing it is sad that so many Americans, especially those in the northeast and west coast, have no clue as to what the 2A was meant for. most think it was to allow for protecting the country from foreign invaders, i.e. to allow for an army when there was not a national army. The truth is, it was to allow the people to keep control of their country from run away government, i.e the ability to take it back by force if need be to prevent a government dictatorship from taking over (I think it is spelled "Democrat" now). Anyway, while I agree that many want more government control in our lives I do not see us to the
, and agree that there are those in government that would like to turn it into a dictatorship (the radicals), I do not think there is an organized effort to "condition" us for a government takeover or roundup.
I stand with you for protecting our rights but we can't totally through out the right to look for wrongdoing. That would be like telling you that you must let the other guy get off the first shot before returning fire in self defense. It is just not functionally practical. There has to be a reasonable allowance.
Just my take on it.
Take care,
Doc
DocNTexas
Regular Member
imported post
FreeinTX wrote:
One other thought I forgot to mention.
As for using the above mentioned reasons to search and question someone, all of these people are doing things illegal in the first place. If stopped at a DUI checkpoint, you have to smell of alcohol to be pulled out. I have watched too many innocent people die because of drunk drivers that chose to drink and drive, claiming it their right to endanger others then use a technicality to live their lives outside of jail. Don't get me wrong, I love a good drink, I am a whiskey guy myself, but I simply refuse to drink and drive. Nor do I drink at all if I am carrying or plan carry a firearm. I will gladly pull over for any DUI checkpoint if it means catchingone drunk driver on the road. Now, as I said before, if they take the questioning beyond the purpose of the checkpoint, i.e. ask to search my vehicle out of the blue or such, then the answer is no and a formal complaint will be filed and followed up on if they persist.
Several years ago I had a drunk run into the back of a trailer I was towing (at highway speed) so hard that he drove completely onto the trailer, completely destroying the load and trailer to the tune of about $25,000 in damages to the vehicle, trailer and load. Fortunately, I was able to regain control of my vehicle and stop without serious injury. He, on the other hand, immediately exited the vehicle and ran from the scene. He had no insurance and could not be placed behind the wheel drunk so the only thing he could be charged with was leaving the scene of an accident. Since he had nothing to to speak of, a law suit would have beenfutile. I paid the damages beyond my insurance and he walked free. I did nothing wrong yet I paid the price. Until they make it a worse crime to leave the scent than the DWI charge, that is what attorney's tell drunks to do. Fortunately, he was stopped about a year later at a DUI check point and ended up in jail for a year for felony DUI. Thanks to a DPSDUI check point some justice was finally served and perhaps some life was saved.
As for using 18 year old military guys to run these check points, I am not aware of that occurring, let me know where you speak of. The only military involvement I am aware of is along themost remotestretches of the border where they are forbid from even firing in self defense. They are told to run if attacked. In fact, they are the target of many crossings because they know they will run if challenged.
Take care,
Doc
FreeinTX wrote:
One other thought I forgot to mention.
As for using the above mentioned reasons to search and question someone, all of these people are doing things illegal in the first place. If stopped at a DUI checkpoint, you have to smell of alcohol to be pulled out. I have watched too many innocent people die because of drunk drivers that chose to drink and drive, claiming it their right to endanger others then use a technicality to live their lives outside of jail. Don't get me wrong, I love a good drink, I am a whiskey guy myself, but I simply refuse to drink and drive. Nor do I drink at all if I am carrying or plan carry a firearm. I will gladly pull over for any DUI checkpoint if it means catchingone drunk driver on the road. Now, as I said before, if they take the questioning beyond the purpose of the checkpoint, i.e. ask to search my vehicle out of the blue or such, then the answer is no and a formal complaint will be filed and followed up on if they persist.
Several years ago I had a drunk run into the back of a trailer I was towing (at highway speed) so hard that he drove completely onto the trailer, completely destroying the load and trailer to the tune of about $25,000 in damages to the vehicle, trailer and load. Fortunately, I was able to regain control of my vehicle and stop without serious injury. He, on the other hand, immediately exited the vehicle and ran from the scene. He had no insurance and could not be placed behind the wheel drunk so the only thing he could be charged with was leaving the scene of an accident. Since he had nothing to to speak of, a law suit would have beenfutile. I paid the damages beyond my insurance and he walked free. I did nothing wrong yet I paid the price. Until they make it a worse crime to leave the scent than the DWI charge, that is what attorney's tell drunks to do. Fortunately, he was stopped about a year later at a DUI check point and ended up in jail for a year for felony DUI. Thanks to a DPSDUI check point some justice was finally served and perhaps some life was saved.
As for using 18 year old military guys to run these check points, I am not aware of that occurring, let me know where you speak of. The only military involvement I am aware of is along themost remotestretches of the border where they are forbid from even firing in self defense. They are told to run if attacked. In fact, they are the target of many crossings because they know they will run if challenged.
Take care,
Doc
DocNTexas
Regular Member
imported post
One last thing FreeinTx,
I noticed in a previous post you called a person you took to be a cop a "Nazi Thug" just because he was a cop.
As a fellow Texan, I must say that is certainly not the sentiment held by true Texans. We support law enforcement and people are given the benefit of doubt until proven to be bad people.
While I will be the first to agree that many law enforcement officers go beyond their bounds, use intimidation tactics and often do things that give LEO's a bad name, I recognize that these are the few, not the normal. I will be the first to hold a LEO to the boundaries of their job and to call for corrective action against a rogue or even uneducated officer, but to call all cops Nazi's is ridiculous. Just because the LEO's around Laredo and a few other border towns have been bought off by the drug traffickers and other unscrupulous people doesn't mean all have been.
I have a large circle of LEO's that i interact with that support the right of the public to carry, both openly and concealed; they are the first to condemn police abuse of power; and the first to help anyone in need. These guys are certainly not Nazi's and are better representatives of Texans than you are portraying in these recent posts.
If you are a true Texan, I encourage you to start acting like one, otherwise, people who know Texans and what they stand for are likely to start thinking you are really an anti-gun communist plant sent here togive Texans a bad name.
True Texans are respectful, keep up the tradition.
Doc
One last thing FreeinTx,
I noticed in a previous post you called a person you took to be a cop a "Nazi Thug" just because he was a cop.
As a fellow Texan, I must say that is certainly not the sentiment held by true Texans. We support law enforcement and people are given the benefit of doubt until proven to be bad people.
While I will be the first to agree that many law enforcement officers go beyond their bounds, use intimidation tactics and often do things that give LEO's a bad name, I recognize that these are the few, not the normal. I will be the first to hold a LEO to the boundaries of their job and to call for corrective action against a rogue or even uneducated officer, but to call all cops Nazi's is ridiculous. Just because the LEO's around Laredo and a few other border towns have been bought off by the drug traffickers and other unscrupulous people doesn't mean all have been.
I have a large circle of LEO's that i interact with that support the right of the public to carry, both openly and concealed; they are the first to condemn police abuse of power; and the first to help anyone in need. These guys are certainly not Nazi's and are better representatives of Texans than you are portraying in these recent posts.
If you are a true Texan, I encourage you to start acting like one, otherwise, people who know Texans and what they stand for are likely to start thinking you are really an anti-gun communist plant sent here togive Texans a bad name.
True Texans are respectful, keep up the tradition.
Doc
Tomahawk
Regular Member
imported post
Unless there's a law saying you have to provide proof of vehicle ownership or proof of citizenship, why would you answer any of these questions?
When stopped by the police where I live, all I am required to present is a license and a registration. Some states also require proof of insurance. At DUI checkpoints those documents are all I give them. Questions about "how I'm doing", "where I'm going this evening", and "what am I up to" go unanswered, as they are none of their damn business.
Does TX require proof of citizenship?
Unless there's a law saying you have to provide proof of vehicle ownership or proof of citizenship, why would you answer any of these questions?
When stopped by the police where I live, all I am required to present is a license and a registration. Some states also require proof of insurance. At DUI checkpoints those documents are all I give them. Questions about "how I'm doing", "where I'm going this evening", and "what am I up to" go unanswered, as they are none of their damn business.
Does TX require proof of citizenship?
DocNTexas
Regular Member
imported post
Tomahawk wrote:
I agree and I thought that was what I said.
I said, I do not mind the checkpoints as long as they stick to the scope of the checkpoint. That means:
DUI checkpoint -check to see if there is evidence that I have been drinking and if so, to determineif I am intoxicated.
DL checkpoint - check my DL, registration and insurance. (Of course, most do DL and DUI checks simultaneously.)
BP checkpoint - check my citizenship and for evidence of contraband.
You are correct that Texasdoes notrequire proof of citizenship when stopped,but the Border Patrol does not enforce state law, they enforce federal law and federal law does require one show proof of citizenship. A good example was atrip back from Mexicolast year. We were stopped at the BP checkpoint north of Del Rio about 11pm and for thefirst time (only time) in all the times I have gone through this checkpoint, I was asked to actually showproof of citizenship (normally I am merely asked if we are all citizens and a quick glance around the interior and we are on our way). Since we had crossed the border we all had our passports with us and they were all neatly stacked in the console, so I just handed him the stack. He glanced through them and then asked if I had a drivers license, to which I replied, "that doesn't matter here, you are here to checkmycitizenshipand you have my passport". He just smiled and handed them back and let us go with a courteous "have asafe trip".
Like you, I will not answer questions outside that scope (at least without good reason).For example, if an officer asks permission to search my vehicle I always tell them "only if you can provide me an acceptablereason for why you feel you need to". So far I have only had one officer take it past that and he simply tried the old reverse psychology run with me, which I quickly stopped by telling him "I take that to mean you have no legitimate reason and are merely trying to snoop through my car in hopes of finding something, therefore the answer is no to the search".
As I said, I support the use of checkpoints to counter certain crimes, as long as they stay within the scope of the checkpoint.At the same time, Iagree that checkpoints are really an ineffective means on the grand scale, but since they do catch some crime they are better than nothing at this point.
Doc
Tomahawk wrote:
I agree and I thought that was what I said.
I said, I do not mind the checkpoints as long as they stick to the scope of the checkpoint. That means:
DUI checkpoint -check to see if there is evidence that I have been drinking and if so, to determineif I am intoxicated.
DL checkpoint - check my DL, registration and insurance. (Of course, most do DL and DUI checks simultaneously.)
BP checkpoint - check my citizenship and for evidence of contraband.
You are correct that Texasdoes notrequire proof of citizenship when stopped,but the Border Patrol does not enforce state law, they enforce federal law and federal law does require one show proof of citizenship. A good example was atrip back from Mexicolast year. We were stopped at the BP checkpoint north of Del Rio about 11pm and for thefirst time (only time) in all the times I have gone through this checkpoint, I was asked to actually showproof of citizenship (normally I am merely asked if we are all citizens and a quick glance around the interior and we are on our way). Since we had crossed the border we all had our passports with us and they were all neatly stacked in the console, so I just handed him the stack. He glanced through them and then asked if I had a drivers license, to which I replied, "that doesn't matter here, you are here to checkmycitizenshipand you have my passport". He just smiled and handed them back and let us go with a courteous "have asafe trip".
Like you, I will not answer questions outside that scope (at least without good reason).For example, if an officer asks permission to search my vehicle I always tell them "only if you can provide me an acceptablereason for why you feel you need to". So far I have only had one officer take it past that and he simply tried the old reverse psychology run with me, which I quickly stopped by telling him "I take that to mean you have no legitimate reason and are merely trying to snoop through my car in hopes of finding something, therefore the answer is no to the search".
As I said, I support the use of checkpoints to counter certain crimes, as long as they stay within the scope of the checkpoint.At the same time, Iagree that checkpoints are really an ineffective means on the grand scale, but since they do catch some crime they are better than nothing at this point.
Doc
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
DocNTexas wrote:
DocNTexas wrote:
Cite, please,unless the roadblock north of Del Rio that you mention is on the border.
Bustelo5%
Regular Member
imported post
Does anyone know if the Amish have any sort of card to travel since they are pretty much off the radar even though I see tons of them in Ohio. Intresting question can you get a passport if you dont have a social and your just a National i.e. Amish dude?
Does anyone know if the Amish have any sort of card to travel since they are pretty much off the radar even though I see tons of them in Ohio. Intresting question can you get a passport if you dont have a social and your just a National i.e. Amish dude?
Tomahawk
Regular Member
imported post
DocNTexas wrote:
Again, citation, please. Unless you're crossing a border.
DocNTexas wrote:
The name or ostensible purpose of the roadblock makes no difference. Either I am required by law to show something or I'm not. I have yet to see a law requiring me to present proof of citizenship, or proof of sobriety, whiledriving on a public road inside the United States, unless there is some reasonable suspicion I am an illegal alien or intoxicated. I may be mistaken, if so, please cite the law that says otherwise.
Again, citation, please. Unless you're crossing a border.
jeremy05
Regular Member
imported post
Look, I hate seeing these stupid videos. Here are some FACTS about a checkpoint, im not going to bother to site any law i dont have the time
1. YOU HAVE TO ANSWER IMMIGRATION QUESTIONS ONLY!
2. Thats it. All you HAVE to do is answer immigration questions.
Look, I hate seeing these stupid videos. Here are some FACTS about a checkpoint, im not going to bother to site any law i dont have the time
1. YOU HAVE TO ANSWER IMMIGRATION QUESTIONS ONLY!
2. Thats it. All you HAVE to do is answer immigration questions.
Tomahawk
Regular Member
imported post
jeremy05 wrote:
jeremy05 wrote:
Unless you take the time to cite the stupid laws, your post is meaningless.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Tomahawk wrote:
That and his post directly contradicts the 5th Amendment.
At a border, I would think. Otherwise, I'll bet not.
Tomahawk wrote:
That and his post directly contradicts the 5th Amendment.
At a border, I would think. Otherwise, I'll bet not.
Gator5713
Lone Star Veteran
imported post
"Proof of Citizenship" is only required to actually cross the actual international border, however, Border Patrol has authority within (I believe) 150 miles of ANY international port of entry (This includes most airports!!!) This range and the 'scope' of the BPs authority were both extended with the creation of 'HomeLand Security'. Under the 'homeland security' charter they can basically suspend all of your rights (send you to GITMO even) under suspicion of any act against the US! (No, they don't have to have proof...) I do not agree with this, but its in there... Read the HLS Act!
As for the BP checkpoints (Situated within 50 miles of any international border) you pull up, they ask if you are a US Citizen, maybe run a dog around your vehicle, and you move on. (They often ask where you are headed, I often ask if they are wanting to come with if I happen to be going someplace interesting, or I just say 'North' as that is the normal direction of travel when crossing a checkpoint...)
I have lived in both McAllen, TX and Laredo, TX, and being a truck driver have probably been 'privy' to more checkpoint crossings that most of you here... I have also probably refused more searches than most, and not just at BP, but also at Scale houses (another illegal checkpoint maybe?)
If they have dogs, they will say that the dog 'alerted' if they want to search your vehicle... At that point, you can you can ask to speak with the supervisor and ask the super (privately) exactly what the dog is trained to do as an 'alert', or just call your lawyer...
If you are in a commercial vehicle, your load does not belong to you (make sure your trailer has a 'seal' on it!) so the only person that can legally require you to open your trailer is the Federal Marshal! Request (politely demand) that they be called and brought out, unless they truly do have a reason, you will be on your way.
My typical response to request to search is something along the lines of: I don't necessarily have anything against a search, but what is your cause? (Insert BS cause here) Before I consent, I would need to have that in writing please. I have yet to consent, I have yet to get it in writing, mostly I get told to go on my way...
Additional note for truckers... Before your trailer is opened you need to do a couple of things... 1) have the ranking officer sign your WayBill; 2) unhook from your trailer, your load is now delivered! It belongs to them now!
Before you hook back up to the trailer, have the ranking officer attach a new seal, and sign the seal number on your WayBill, this way YOU are NOT liable for anything in that trailer! (Requiring this is also a good deterrent to being illegally detained and searched!)
Like I mentioned earlier, I do not necessarily agree with this, nor am I any kind of attorney, I am simply passing on gained experience and knowledge from a variety of resources and experiences...
Your mileage may vary....
"Proof of Citizenship" is only required to actually cross the actual international border, however, Border Patrol has authority within (I believe) 150 miles of ANY international port of entry (This includes most airports!!!) This range and the 'scope' of the BPs authority were both extended with the creation of 'HomeLand Security'. Under the 'homeland security' charter they can basically suspend all of your rights (send you to GITMO even) under suspicion of any act against the US! (No, they don't have to have proof...) I do not agree with this, but its in there... Read the HLS Act!
As for the BP checkpoints (Situated within 50 miles of any international border) you pull up, they ask if you are a US Citizen, maybe run a dog around your vehicle, and you move on. (They often ask where you are headed, I often ask if they are wanting to come with if I happen to be going someplace interesting, or I just say 'North' as that is the normal direction of travel when crossing a checkpoint...)
I have lived in both McAllen, TX and Laredo, TX, and being a truck driver have probably been 'privy' to more checkpoint crossings that most of you here... I have also probably refused more searches than most, and not just at BP, but also at Scale houses (another illegal checkpoint maybe?)
If they have dogs, they will say that the dog 'alerted' if they want to search your vehicle... At that point, you can you can ask to speak with the supervisor and ask the super (privately) exactly what the dog is trained to do as an 'alert', or just call your lawyer...
If you are in a commercial vehicle, your load does not belong to you (make sure your trailer has a 'seal' on it!) so the only person that can legally require you to open your trailer is the Federal Marshal! Request (politely demand) that they be called and brought out, unless they truly do have a reason, you will be on your way.
My typical response to request to search is something along the lines of: I don't necessarily have anything against a search, but what is your cause? (Insert BS cause here) Before I consent, I would need to have that in writing please. I have yet to consent, I have yet to get it in writing, mostly I get told to go on my way...
Additional note for truckers... Before your trailer is opened you need to do a couple of things... 1) have the ranking officer sign your WayBill; 2) unhook from your trailer, your load is now delivered! It belongs to them now!
Before you hook back up to the trailer, have the ranking officer attach a new seal, and sign the seal number on your WayBill, this way YOU are NOT liable for anything in that trailer! (Requiring this is also a good deterrent to being illegally detained and searched!)
Like I mentioned earlier, I do not necessarily agree with this, nor am I any kind of attorney, I am simply passing on gained experience and knowledge from a variety of resources and experiences...
Your mileage may vary....